Santa Claus

[Cecilie1200]

Every year, I go through some version of this annoyance.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many adults are addicted to the idea of lying to children about Santa Claus being real. I'm bringing this up at the moment because I took my 6-year-old, Quinn, to the grocery store with me tonight. On the way out, he stopped to pet a dog that was being walked by his owner. The man inquired if Quinn was ready for Santa Claus to come in three days. Confused, Quinn looked up at him and said, "There's no such thing as Santa Claus."

Now, up to that point, I could understand it. It was just a polite question, based on the undeniable fact that many, if not most, parents of 6-year-olds do perpetuate the Santa myth.

But then this man proceeded to argue with Quinn, saying, "Of course there's a Santa. He brings presents on Christmas." Now Quinn was really confused, and looked over at me, getting agitated. (You should understand that all of my children are quite sensitive to feeling that they're being lied to.) His response: "There's no Santa. Mom and Dad give presents."

Incredibly, this guy started to continue arguing with him. I stepped in, said, "You're right, honey, but a lot of kids do believe in Santa, and that's up to their parents. Tell the nice man and his dog Merry Christmas, and let's get home."

I mean, seriously. If the mother's standing right there and making no attempt to jump in and convince her kid that Santa exists, odds are that she's the one who gave him the straight scoop on the fat guy in the first place. So why in the holy hell would you argue with the kid and try to convince him of something you know is a lie, when HE obviously knows it, too?

My daughter is going through one of those extra-fun custody battles over my granddaughter. I was absolutely floored when one of her ex's big arguments to show that my daughter is a bad mother is that she told her daughter - who's 5 - that Santa wasn't real, and presents were actually given by family and friends. This wasn't exactly a newsflash, since this has been common knowledge in my granddaughter's life all along, but it came up because Dad and his new girlfriend were trying to convince her to buy into the whole thing, and she came to her mom for clarification and honest answers.

What really amazed me about his argument to the court, though, is that at least some of the child welfare people monitoring the case actually thought this was a sign of bad parenting. Excuse me, WHAT?! No wonder Arizona has kids being murdered by abusive parents and foster parents in job lots, if THIS is what gets their shorts in a twist.

Just another example of how completely ass-backwards nuts our society is, I guess.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I had severe behavioral issues as a child. So Santa was used as a tool to instill obedience. But I was never taught to worship him. My grandmother is a strict Christian, so she considered it sacrilegious to supplant the Almighty with a mythical Elven figure. Santa is/was more of concept and a myth rather than something to be believed. One year, I thought I'd be clever and ask for Santa's autograph. I scrawled it on a sheet of paper and set it near the cookies and milk. Not only were the cookies and milk gone, the paper was too.

I was 11 years old when my grandmother finally broke the news that Santa didn't exist, although I had some idea that Santa didn't exist anyway for quite some time, because one year, I got up too early and caught her putting down the presents under the tree, "you scared him off!" she said. But I didn't fall for it.

So, I don't care to inflict that on hapless children if I can help it. There is great debate in my church about Santa Claus going around in my church. Me personally? I believe now that Santa Claus is a false idol, and asking some to believe in him rather than in Christ would be asking them to break one of the Ten Commandments.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Mark 9:42

 

[WheelieAddict]

WTF???

 

[Pogo]

Every year, I go through some version of this annoyance.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many adults are addicted to the idea of lying to children about Santa Claus being real. I'm bringing this up at the moment because I took my 6-year-old, Quinn, to the grocery store with me tonight. On the way out, he stopped to pet a dog that was being walked by his owner. The man inquired if Quinn was ready for Santa Claus to come in three days. Confused, Quinn looked up at him and said, "There's no such thing as Santa Claus."

Now, up to that point, I could understand it. It was just a polite question, based on the undeniable fact that many, if not most, parents of 6-year-olds do perpetuate the Santa myth.

But then this man proceeded to argue with Quinn, saying, "Of course there's a Santa. He brings presents on Christmas." Now Quinn was really confused, and looked over at me, getting agitated. (You should understand that all of my children are quite sensitive to feeling that they're being lied to.) His response: "There's no Santa. Mom and Dad give presents."

Incredibly, this guy started to continue arguing with him. I stepped in, said, "You're right, honey, but a lot of kids do believe in Santa, and that's up to their parents. Tell the nice man and his dog Merry Christmas, and let's get home."

I mean, seriously. If the mother's standing right there and making no attempt to jump in and convince her kid that Santa exists, odds are that she's the one who gave him the straight scoop on the fat guy in the first place. So why in the holy hell would you argue with the kid and try to convince him of something you know is a lie, when HE obviously knows it, too?

My daughter is going through one of those extra-fun custody battles over my granddaughter. I was absolutely floored when one of her ex's big arguments to show that my daughter is a bad mother is that she told her daughter - who's 5 - that Santa wasn't real, and presents were actually given by family and friends. This wasn't exactly a newsflash, since this has been common knowledge in my granddaughter's life all along, but it came up because Dad and his new girlfriend were trying to convince her to buy into the whole thing, and she came to her mom for clarification and honest answers.

What really amazed me about his argument to the court, though, is that at least some of the child welfare people monitoring the case actually thought this was a sign of bad parenting. Excuse me, WHAT?! No wonder Arizona has kids being murdered by abusive parents and foster parents in job lots, if THIS is what gets their shorts in a twist.

Just another example of how completely ass-backwards nuts our society is, I guess.

Damn girl, some of your posts lately are making perfect lucid sense. This is one of them.

I remember the night my Mom pulled me aside and said, "you probably know by now but --- there's no Santa Claus. You're one of the older ones so don't tell your younger siblings".

(Well actually Mom, no I didn't know, and now you've totally confuserated me about what lying is)

Your approach here makes far more sense to me. Well done.

 

[Pogo]

I had severe behavioral issues as a child. So Santa was used as a tool to instill obedience. But I was never taught to worship him. My grandmother is a strict Christian, so she considered it sacrilegious to supplant the Almighty with a mythical Elven figure. Santa is/was more of concept and a myth rather than something to be believed. One year, I thought I'd be clever and ask for Santa's autograph. I scrawled it on a sheet of paper and set it near the cookies and milk. Not only were the cookies and milk gone, the paper was too.

I was 11 years old when my grandmother finally broke the news that Santa didn't exist, although I had some idea that Santa didn't exist anyway for quite some time, because one year, I got up too early and caught her putting down the presents under the tree, "you scared him off!" she said. But I didn't fall for it.

So, I don't care to inflict that on hapless children if I can help it. There is great debate in my church about Santa Claus going around in my church. Me personally? I believe now that Santa Claus is a false idol, and asking some to believe in him rather than in Christ would be asking them to break one of the Ten Commandments.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Mark 9:42

Nobody's supposed to be "worshiping" Santa Claus or "supplanting the Almighty", so he's no more an "idol" than the tooth fairy or a gnome.

 

[koshergrl]

I never believed in Santa As far as I can remember. My older boys did......but not for very many years. I never thought it a big deal one way or the other. Love Santa movies and songs....read the night before Christmas to kids for many years. We never got too worked up about it.

 

[Bonzi]

I am glad I believed in Santa. It made Christmas magical.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I had severe behavioral issues as a child. So Santa was used as a tool to instill obedience. But I was never taught to worship him. My grandmother is a strict Christian, so she considered it sacrilegious to supplant the Almighty with a mythical Elven figure. Santa is/was more of concept and a myth rather than something to be believed. One year, I thought I'd be clever and ask for Santa's autograph. I scrawled it on a sheet of paper and set it near the cookies and milk. Not only were the cookies and milk gone, the paper was too.

I was 11 years old when my grandmother finally broke the news that Santa didn't exist, although I had some idea that Santa didn't exist anyway for quite some time, because one year, I got up too early and caught her putting down the presents under the tree, "you scared him off!" she said. But I didn't fall for it.

So, I don't care to inflict that on hapless children if I can help it. There is great debate in my church about Santa Claus going around in my church. Me personally? I believe now that Santa Claus is a false idol, and asking some to believe in him rather than in Christ would be asking them to break one of the Ten Commandments.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Mark 9:42

I think Santa is a cute story, like reading your kids fairy tales at bedtime, but I would no sooner teach my children to believe in Santa than I would teach them that they can spin straw into gold.

Besides, as a practical matter, it simply wouldn't have been feasible. My daughter has always been incredibly oversensitive to people being dishonest with her. It was obvious very early on that she would have taken it as a serious betrayal and spent the rest of her life throwing it up in my face as proof that I couldn't be trusted. She has since confirmed that that is EXACTLY what she would have done.

When Nicholas - my older son - came along, he had a six-year-old sister who would have spilled the beans, so it never crossed my mind at all. He's told me it took him years to even realize Santa was a "thing" at all, and then only because it was mentioned in movies and TV shows.

Quinn, of course, has two adult siblings, so again, it wouldn't have been an option even if I'd wanted it to be.

Truthfulness and trustworthiness are big things in my family, though. My whole life, it never once occurred to me that anything my parents ever said to me was anything less than the absolute truth as they knew it, and I've worked very hard to be the same person to my kids. Now that two of them are adults, they'll allow for the possibility that I'm WRONG (although not even that very often), but they would stake their lives on my honesty.

I get attacked at least once every year for "denying my children the magic of Christmas". It's always been my opinion that I retained my love and enjoyment of the season into my forties, rather than becoming disillusioned, jaded, and cynical about the "commercialism of it all", precisely because the magic never depended on believing in folk myths for me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Every year, I go through some version of this annoyance.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many adults are addicted to the idea of lying to children about Santa Claus being real. I'm bringing this up at the moment because I took my 6-year-old, Quinn, to the grocery store with me tonight. On the way out, he stopped to pet a dog that was being walked by his owner. The man inquired if Quinn was ready for Santa Claus to come in three days. Confused, Quinn looked up at him and said, "There's no such thing as Santa Claus."

Now, up to that point, I could understand it. It was just a polite question, based on the undeniable fact that many, if not most, parents of 6-year-olds do perpetuate the Santa myth.

But then this man proceeded to argue with Quinn, saying, "Of course there's a Santa. He brings presents on Christmas." Now Quinn was really confused, and looked over at me, getting agitated. (You should understand that all of my children are quite sensitive to feeling that they're being lied to.) His response: "There's no Santa. Mom and Dad give presents."

Incredibly, this guy started to continue arguing with him. I stepped in, said, "You're right, honey, but a lot of kids do believe in Santa, and that's up to their parents. Tell the nice man and his dog Merry Christmas, and let's get home."

I mean, seriously. If the mother's standing right there and making no attempt to jump in and convince her kid that Santa exists, odds are that she's the one who gave him the straight scoop on the fat guy in the first place. So why in the holy hell would you argue with the kid and try to convince him of something you know is a lie, when HE obviously knows it, too?

My daughter is going through one of those extra-fun custody battles over my granddaughter. I was absolutely floored when one of her ex's big arguments to show that my daughter is a bad mother is that she told her daughter - who's 5 - that Santa wasn't real, and presents were actually given by family and friends. This wasn't exactly a newsflash, since this has been common knowledge in my granddaughter's life all along, but it came up because Dad and his new girlfriend were trying to convince her to buy into the whole thing, and she came to her mom for clarification and honest answers.

What really amazed me about his argument to the court, though, is that at least some of the child welfare people monitoring the case actually thought this was a sign of bad parenting. Excuse me, WHAT?! No wonder Arizona has kids being murdered by abusive parents and foster parents in job lots, if THIS is what gets their shorts in a twist.

Just another example of how completely ass-backwards nuts our society is, I guess.

Damn girl, some of your posts lately are making perfect lucid sense. This is one of them.

I remember the night my Mom pulled me aside and said, "you probably know by now but --- there's no Santa Claus. You're one of the older ones so don't tell your younger siblings".

(Well actually Mom, no I didn't know, and now you've totally confuserated me about what lying is)

Your approach here makes far more sense to me. Well done.

Thank you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I never believed in Santa As far as I can remember. My older boys did......but not for very many years. I never thought it a big deal one way or the other. Love Santa movies and songs....read the night before Christmas to kids for many years. We never got too worked up about it.

Oh, I think that poem is a great example of contemporary literature, and we've read it. And I'm all over Christmas movies. But it would no more occur to me to teach my kids to take these things as reality than it would to encourage them to believe that mice and birds are going to come do their chores for them because it's in all the fairytales and Disney movies.

My kids are freaking literal, and they rules-lawyer like they're arguing before the Supreme Court. My life involves a LOT of working to remain smarter than they are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am glad I believed in Santa. It made Christmas magical.

I never believed in Santa, and Christmas is STILL magical for me. To my mind, you don't get more miraculous than human beings putting aside their own selfishness and pettiness to be loving and generous to each other.

There is also the whole religious aspect of the holiday for me.

Oh, that reminds me. Quinn made me go through the birth of Christ story via a question about the "spirit of Christmas". I forget what it was exactly, but during the story, I said that God did something, and he interrupts with, "HOW did God do that?" Given that he's 7, I had to pretty much go with, "Magic."

 

[koshergrl]

I always knew that Christmas was about celebrating Christ's birth....

And reading the poem.

And making fudge and Martha Washingtons.

 

[koshergrl]

Martha Washington Balls Recipe - Food.com

 

[Arianrhod]

I am glad I believed in Santa. It made Christmas magical.

I never believed in Santa, and Christmas is STILL magical for me. To my mind, you don't get more miraculous than human beings putting aside their own selfishness and pettiness to be loving and generous to each other.

There is also the whole religious aspect of the holiday for me.

Oh, that reminds me. Quinn made me go through the birth of Christ story via a question about the "spirit of Christmas". I forget what it was exactly, but during the story, I said that God did something, and he interrupts with, "HOW did God do that?" Given that he's 7, I had to pretty much go with, "Magic."

This is intriguing, since Santa is based - however loosely - on an historical religious figure.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I always knew that Christmas was about celebrating Christ's birth....

And reading the poem.

And making fudge and Martha Washingtons.

And tamales. Christmas in Tucson is all about cookies, fudge, and grandma's tamales. Since I'm not Mexican and my grandma couldn't have made a tamale to save her life, I had to learn to make my own.

 

[Moonglow]

As a child, of about 6-7 I wondered about the Kringle myth and where the presents came from, since our large family had Christmas celebrations starting a week before Christmas to be able to visit and exchange presents..So I stayed up all night, listening to cues about the visit from man from the North Pole......About midnight the TG&Y sacks began to rattle and for an hour I hear paper shuffling and tape being pulled out and cut for the wrapping of the gifts....I knew then after staying up till dawn that Santa, was not real.....
I never liked lying to my kids to get them to listen or to have discipline...

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am glad I believed in Santa. It made Christmas magical.

I never believed in Santa, and Christmas is STILL magical for me. To my mind, you don't get more miraculous than human beings putting aside their own selfishness and pettiness to be loving and generous to each other.

There is also the whole religious aspect of the holiday for me.

Oh, that reminds me. Quinn made me go through the birth of Christ story via a question about the "spirit of Christmas". I forget what it was exactly, but during the story, I said that God did something, and he interrupts with, "HOW did God do that?" Given that he's 7, I had to pretty much go with, "Magic."

This is intriguing, since Santa is based - however loosely - on an historical religious figure.

We've discussed the story of St. Nicholas, who bears no resemblance to a magical fat man in red fur breaking and entering to leave presents. My kids are information sponges, so EVERYTHING in my house gets Googled and discussed and examined in excruciating detail.

 

[Moonglow]

I always knew that Christmas was about celebrating Christ's birth....

And reading the poem.

And making fudge and Martha Washingtons.

And tamales. Christmas in Tucson is all about cookies, fudge, and grandma's tamales. Since I'm not Mexican and my grandma couldn't have made a tamale to save her life, I had to learn to make my own.

So you're a masa tosser?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I had severe behavioral issues as a child. So Santa was used as a tool to instill obedience. But I was never taught to worship him. My grandmother is a strict Christian, so she considered it sacrilegious to supplant the Almighty with a mythical Elven figure. Santa is/was more of concept and a myth rather than something to be believed. One year, I thought I'd be clever and ask for Santa's autograph. I scrawled it on a sheet of paper and set it near the cookies and milk. Not only were the cookies and milk gone, the paper was too.

I was 11 years old when my grandmother finally broke the news that Santa didn't exist, although I had some idea that Santa didn't exist anyway for quite some time, because one year, I got up too early and caught her putting down the presents under the tree, "you scared him off!" she said. But I didn't fall for it.

So, I don't care to inflict that on hapless children if I can help it. There is great debate in my church about Santa Claus going around in my church. Me personally? I believe now that Santa Claus is a false idol, and asking some to believe in him rather than in Christ would be asking them to break one of the Ten Commandments.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Mark 9:42

I think Santa is a cute story, like reading your kids fairy tales at bedtime, but I would no sooner teach my children to believe in Santa than I would teach them that they can spin straw into gold.

Besides, as a practical matter, it simply wouldn't have been feasible. My daughter has always been incredibly oversensitive to people being dishonest with her. It was obvious very early on that she would have taken it as a serious betrayal and spent the rest of her life throwing it up in my face as proof that I couldn't be trusted. She has since confirmed that that is EXACTLY what she would have done.

When Nicholas - my older son - came along, he had a six-year-old sister who would have spilled the beans, so it never crossed my mind at all. He's told me it took him years to even realize Santa was a "thing" at all, and then only because it was mentioned in movies and TV shows.

Quinn, of course, has two adult siblings, so again, it wouldn't have been an option even if I'd wanted it to be.

Truthfulness and trustworthiness are big things in my family, though. My whole life, it never once occurred to me that anything my parents ever said to me was anything less than the absolute truth as they knew it, and I've worked very hard to be the same person to my kids. Now that two of them are adults, they'll allow for the possibility that I'm WRONG (although not even that very often), but they would stake their lives on my honesty.

I get attacked at least once every year for "denying my children the magic of Christmas". It's always been my opinion that I retained my love and enjoyment of the season into my forties, rather than becoming disillusioned, jaded, and cynical about the "commercialism of it all", precisely because the magic never depended on believing in folk myths for me.

You did what you thought was better for your children. My grandmother emphasized the true meaning of Christmas to me, the birth of Jesus Christ, even as she used the concept of Santa Claus to instill obedience.

I had a discussion about this with her last night. She said to me "there's nothing wrong with Santa Claus as long as you don't let him become greater than God. There's nothing wrong with giving gifts so long as you remember the ultimate gift Jesus gave on the cross. The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is real reason why we celebrate the season."

 

[Pogo]

I had severe behavioral issues as a child. So Santa was used as a tool to instill obedience. But I was never taught to worship him. My grandmother is a strict Christian, so she considered it sacrilegious to supplant the Almighty with a mythical Elven figure. Santa is/was more of concept and a myth rather than something to be believed. One year, I thought I'd be clever and ask for Santa's autograph. I scrawled it on a sheet of paper and set it near the cookies and milk. Not only were the cookies and milk gone, the paper was too.

I was 11 years old when my grandmother finally broke the news that Santa didn't exist, although I had some idea that Santa didn't exist anyway for quite some time, because one year, I got up too early and caught her putting down the presents under the tree, "you scared him off!" she said. But I didn't fall for it.

So, I don't care to inflict that on hapless children if I can help it. There is great debate in my church about Santa Claus going around in my church. Me personally? I believe now that Santa Claus is a false idol, and asking some to believe in him rather than in Christ would be asking them to break one of the Ten Commandments.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Mark 9:42

I think Santa is a cute story, like reading your kids fairy tales at bedtime, but I would no sooner teach my children to believe in Santa than I would teach them that they can spin straw into gold.

Besides, as a practical matter, it simply wouldn't have been feasible. My daughter has always been incredibly oversensitive to people being dishonest with her. It was obvious very early on that she would have taken it as a serious betrayal and spent the rest of her life throwing it up in my face as proof that I couldn't be trusted. She has since confirmed that that is EXACTLY what she would have done.

When Nicholas - my older son - came along, he had a six-year-old sister who would have spilled the beans, so it never crossed my mind at all. He's told me it took him years to even realize Santa was a "thing" at all, and then only because it was mentioned in movies and TV shows.

Quinn, of course, has two adult siblings, so again, it wouldn't have been an option even if I'd wanted it to be.

Truthfulness and trustworthiness are big things in my family, though. My whole life, it never once occurred to me that anything my parents ever said to me was anything less than the absolute truth as they knew it, and I've worked very hard to be the same person to my kids. Now that two of them are adults, they'll allow for the possibility that I'm WRONG (although not even that very often), but they would stake their lives on my honesty.

I get attacked at least once every year for "denying my children the magic of Christmas". It's always been my opinion that I retained my love and enjoyment of the season into my forties, rather than becoming disillusioned, jaded, and cynical about the "commercialism of it all", precisely because the magic never depended on believing in folk myths for me.

You did what you thought was better for your children. My grandmother emphasized the true meaning of Christmas to me, the birth of Jesus Christ, even as she used the concept of Santa Claus to instill obedience.

I had a discussion about this with her last night. She said to me "there's nothing wrong with Santa Claus as long as you don't let him become greater than God. There's nothing wrong with giving gifts so long as you remember the ultimate gift Jesus gave on the cross. The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is real reason why we celebrate the season."

This is just bizarre. I've never heard of anyone deifying Santa Claus.

And of course the reason we celebrate the season goes waaaaay before Jesus. It's an ancient simple (and practical) wonderment at the way the sun, crucial to human survival for thousands of years, would stop its "dying" (shortening days) and rise again three days later, heralding the return of warmer weather and Spring -- which meant ability to plant crops, which meant survival.

That's the whole reason we decorate with lights. Sympathetic magic to bring back the sunlight. Jesus is a cute story and all but it's entirely allegorical.