SAN FRANCISCO plans to provide transgender surgeries

[syrenn]

Its called gender identity disorder in the dsm 5...once they medicalize behaviours they become illnesses and eligible for treatment

careful... calling them.... sick...is not PC ya know.

 

[Noomi]

what you are saying is: have a tantrum long enough....and you will eventually get your cookie.

sorry... that does not fly with me.

It is not a tantrum. Trangenderism actually exists. It is a recognised medical condition, like it or not, and one of the ways to 'cure' it, is gender reassignment surgery.

Look, I have said my piece. I realise most of you don't agree, and that is fine. I don't intend to get in a debate and have people slinging insults at me (not you, Syrenn) because they don't agree with me.

i am not saying it does not exist...

i am saying if you want cosmetic surgery..... pay for it yourself.

And I can understand why you have that opinion, and I partly agree. There are some people whom I don't think need surgery. Women who just want to have big boobs for the sake of breaking a world record. Skinny women who want liposuction, middle aged men who want facelifts to take away the years of damage they have done to their skin...

My problem is...there are many people who are deserving of such surgeries, who need them to lead better lives, and to help them overcome the depression they suffer. Is it fair to tell one person they can have their surgery, but tell another person that they cannot?
I don't think so, which is why I am in support of cosmetic surgery for anyone who is approved for it.

 

[syrenn]

It is not a tantrum. Trangenderism actually exists. It is a recognised medical condition, like it or not, and one of the ways to 'cure' it, is gender reassignment surgery.

Look, I have said my piece. I realise most of you don't agree, and that is fine. I don't intend to get in a debate and have people slinging insults at me (not you, Syrenn) because they don't agree with me.

i am not saying it does not exist...

i am saying if you want cosmetic surgery..... pay for it yourself.

And I can understand why you have that opinion, and I partly agree. There are some people whom I don't think need surgery. Women who just want to have big boobs for the sake of breaking a world record. Skinny women who want liposuction, middle aged men who want facelifts to take away the years of damage they have done to their skin...

My problem is...there are many people who are deserving of such surgeries, who need them to lead better lives, and to help them overcome the depression they suffer. Is it fair to tell one person they can have their surgery, but tell another person that they cannot?
I don't think so, which is why I am in support of cosmetic surgery for anyone who is approved for it.

You bet it is fair to tell people NO.

i am in support for zero cosmetic surgery being paid for on the pubic dime. The city is going bankrupt as it is..... cosmetic surgery is elective...and not necessary.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I like this. At least they are doing what the can to help these people. Lets face it, if they could pay, they would have their surgeries. Its not their fault they can't afford it...

You like that the government is supporting psychological delusions?

It depends. Obviously, you believe that transgendered people have delusions. I however, have a different opinion.

Look at it this way -if a person is severely depressed for many years, attempts suicide, has stints in psych hospitals etc, goes through years of counseling because they want to 'change' sex, and they are finally allowed to, and that person is no longer depressed, but instead, is happy with their body, and able to rejoin society, does that really mean that person is delusional? I would think that that person was truly transgendered, and surgery improved their life.

But I know others will see it differently.

They are deluded if they think surgery will change their sex.

 

[Noomi]

You bet it is fair to tell people NO.

i am in support for zero cosmetic surgery being paid for on the pubic dime. The city is going bankrupt as it is..... cosmetic surgery is elective...and not necessary.

Most surgeries are elective, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be performed.

Being brought up in a country where medical treatment is a given is probably what sets us both apart. You live in a country where people have to pay for hospital treatment, but I live in a country where I have never had to worry about such things.

 

[Noomi]

You like that the government is supporting psychological delusions?

It depends. Obviously, you believe that transgendered people have delusions. I however, have a different opinion.

Look at it this way -if a person is severely depressed for many years, attempts suicide, has stints in psych hospitals etc, goes through years of counseling because they want to 'change' sex, and they are finally allowed to, and that person is no longer depressed, but instead, is happy with their body, and able to rejoin society, does that really mean that person is delusional? I would think that that person was truly transgendered, and surgery improved their life.

But I know others will see it differently.

They are deluded if they think surgery will change their sex.

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are totally fucked in the head.

Thank you so much for keeping this discussion civil. I was hoping we could all have a decent debate, without the need for insults.

I seem to have been hoping for a little too much.

You lost any hope of keeping this civil when you thought doctors should hack off people's arms or legs just because it might make someone feel better. What are they supposed to do if it doesn't work, sew it back on?

 

[syrenn]

You bet it is fair to tell people NO.

i am in support for zero cosmetic surgery being paid for on the pubic dime. The city is going bankrupt as it is..... cosmetic surgery is elective...and not necessary.

Most surgeries are elective, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be performed.

Being brought up in a country where medical treatment is a given is probably what sets us both apart. You live in a country where people have to pay for hospital treatment, but I live in a country where I have never had to worry about such things.

True enough.... we live with different ideas of personally responsibility.

 

[Noomi]

You are totally fucked in the head.

Thank you so much for keeping this discussion civil. I was hoping we could all have a decent debate, without the need for insults.

I seem to have been hoping for a little too much.

You lost any hope of keeping this civil when you thought doctors should hack off people's arms or legs just because it might make someone feel better. What are they supposed to do if it doesn't work, sew it back on?

I never said that. What I meant was, that if people are desperate enough, they will remove the limb themselves, and may possibly kill themselves in the process. How the hell do you prevent such a thing?

Unfortunately, no one really has the answer for that one. Counseling and anti depressants may not work, and if you did remove the limb for them, they may change their minds. There is no right thing to do, and no wrong thing to do.

I think I just look at these things differently to you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It depends. Obviously, you believe that transgendered people have delusions. I however, have a different opinion.

Look at it this way -if a person is severely depressed for many years, attempts suicide, has stints in psych hospitals etc, goes through years of counseling because they want to 'change' sex, and they are finally allowed to, and that person is no longer depressed, but instead, is happy with their body, and able to rejoin society, does that really mean that person is delusional? I would think that that person was truly transgendered, and surgery improved their life.

But I know others will see it differently.

They are deluded if they think surgery will change their sex.

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

 

[eots]

Its called gender identity disorder in the dsm 5...once they medicalize behaviours they become illnesses and eligible for treatment

careful... calling them.... sick...is not PC ya know.

oh no, they are fine with being diagnosed with a disorder in cases where it is of benefit and the prescribed treatment is desirable...the rules change and it actually becomes discrimination to not recognize their terrible affliction and need for free hormones and cosmetic surgery..so they can be as god made them

 

[Noomi]

They are deluded if they think surgery will change their sex.

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

True, they will need to take hormones, but that isn't really too much, is it? I mean, lots of people take medication, and many people will be on medication for life. If that is something they are prepared to do, then I don't have any objection to it.

 

[Noomi]

Its called gender identity disorder in the dsm 5...once they medicalize behaviours they become illnesses and eligible for treatment

careful... calling them.... sick...is not PC ya know.

oh no, they are fine with being diagnosed with a disorder in cases where it is of benefit and the prescribed treatment is desirable...the rules change and it actually becomes discrimination to not recognize their terrible affliction and need for free hormones and cosmetic surgery..so they can be as god made them

"As God made them", you say?

What about someone who was born with both sets of genitals? Someone who has a penis but who also has a womb and ovaries. How did God 'make' that person? Obviously he couldn't decide which sex to make that particular person, right?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Thank you so much for keeping this discussion civil. I was hoping we could all have a decent debate, without the need for insults.

I seem to have been hoping for a little too much.

You lost any hope of keeping this civil when you thought doctors should hack off people's arms or legs just because it might make someone feel better. What are they supposed to do if it doesn't work, sew it back on?

I never said that. What I meant was, that if people are desperate enough, they will remove the limb themselves, and may possibly kill themselves in the process. How the hell do you prevent such a thing?

Unfortunately, no one really has the answer for that one. Counseling and anti depressants may not work, and if you did remove the limb for them, they may change their minds. There is no right thing to do, and no wrong thing to do.

I think I just look at these things differently to you.

The right thing to do is let them do whatever they want to themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Why should the government help them or prevent them? Why should I worry about it?

 

[syrenn]

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

True, they will need to take hormones, but that isn't really too much, is it? I mean, lots of people take medication, and many people will be on medication for life. If that is something they are prepared to do, then I don't have any objection to it.

so why not just put them on the happy medication... as many hormones as they want.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

True, they will need to take hormones, but that isn't really too much, is it? I mean, lots of people take medication, and many people will be on medication for life. If that is something they are prepared to do, then I don't have any objection to it.

I don't either, as long as they pay for it themselves, and don't force other people to confirm to their beliefs.

 

[Noomi]

You lost any hope of keeping this civil when you thought doctors should hack off people's arms or legs just because it might make someone feel better. What are they supposed to do if it doesn't work, sew it back on?

I never said that. What I meant was, that if people are desperate enough, they will remove the limb themselves, and may possibly kill themselves in the process. How the hell do you prevent such a thing?

Unfortunately, no one really has the answer for that one. Counseling and anti depressants may not work, and if you did remove the limb for them, they may change their minds. There is no right thing to do, and no wrong thing to do.

I think I just look at these things differently to you.

The right thing to do is let them do whatever they want to themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Why should the government help them or prevent them? Why should I worry about it?

Well, I guess you don't have to worry about it. But what if they do hurt someone else? What if they try to remove their own limb, but fail, and their husband, or wife has to return home and find them, dead on the kitchen floor? I don't want anyone to have to endure such trauma.

As I said, I am not sure what can be done about these situations. One would have to be very, very careful how they proceeded.

 

[Noomi]

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

True, they will need to take hormones, but that isn't really too much, is it? I mean, lots of people take medication, and many people will be on medication for life. If that is something they are prepared to do, then I don't have any objection to it.

I don't either, as long as they pay for it themselves, and don't force other people to confirm to their beliefs.

I would expect them to pay for their own hormones, too. Its just surgery I think should be free for them - but only after intensive counseling, and a period of no less than 2 years living as their chosen sex.

 

[eots]

And that is your opinion, but it is, respectfully, not mine.

It is not an opinion, it is a medical fact. Changing the plumbing through cosmetic surgery does not give someone different genetics, they will need to take medication for the rest of the life to maintain the illusion.

True, they will need to take hormones, but that isn't really too much, is it? I mean, lots of people take medication, and many people will be on medication for life. If that is something they are prepared to do, then I don't have any objection to it.

some just depend on the effects of castration..
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJJ668KSMgo]The Effects of My Castration - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I never said that. What I meant was, that if people are desperate enough, they will remove the limb themselves, and may possibly kill themselves in the process. How the hell do you prevent such a thing?

Unfortunately, no one really has the answer for that one. Counseling and anti depressants may not work, and if you did remove the limb for them, they may change their minds. There is no right thing to do, and no wrong thing to do.

I think I just look at these things differently to you.

The right thing to do is let them do whatever they want to themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Why should the government help them or prevent them? Why should I worry about it?

Well, I guess you don't have to worry about it. But what if they do hurt someone else? What if they try to remove their own limb, but fail, and their husband, or wife has to return home and find them, dead on the kitchen floor? I don't want anyone to have to endure such trauma.

As I said, I am not sure what can be done about these situations. One would have to be very, very careful how they proceeded.

what if the blow up the world when they do it?

We don't have to do anything.