San Francisco is Literally Full of Shit

[boedicca]

Years of requiring Low Flow Toilets combined with massive condo construction connecting into an antiquated sewer system have finally reached the inevitable consequence: San Francisco is Constipated. The City is quite literally clogged with shit.

So now, they want to clean out the pipes with BLEACH.

Yet another example of Big Government Do Gooderism backfiring and making things worse.

San Francisco's big push for low-flow toilets has turned into a multimillion-dollar plumbing stink.

Skimping on toilet water has resulted in more sludge backing up inside the sewer pipes, said Tyrone Jue, spokesman for the city Public Utilities Commission. That has created a rotten-egg stench near AT&T Park and elsewhere, especially during the dry summer months.

The city has already spent $100 million over the past five years to upgrade its sewer system and sewage plants, in part to combat the odor problem.

Now officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.

That translates into 8.5 million pounds of bleach either being poured down city drains or into the drinking water supply every year.

Not everybody thinks it's a good idea.

A Don't Bleach Our Bay alert has just gone out from eco-blogger Adam Lowry who argues the city would be much better off using a disinfectant like hydrogen peroxide - or better yet, a solution that would naturally break down the bacteria....

Low-flow toilets cause a stink in SF

 

[JBeukema]

ow officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.

Wait... aren't we supposed have water treatment plants for a reason? If the water needs to be sanitized before drinking, it would seem it's not being treated properly in the first place.

 

[Mad Scientist]

See? That's the reason we need those low flow toilets. The money saved will be used to flush out the pipes that get backed up as a result of the low flow toilets! Brilliant!

 

[boedicca]

I bet they use more water cleaning up the mess than was saved by the toilets in the first place.

 

[xsited1]

At least a large percentage of the men in San Francisco have their shit packed.

 

[Mini 14]

If Frisco wasn't so beautiful, I'd say nuke the shithole and be done with it.

Can we get some Americans to migrate there and take over?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I bet they use more water cleaning up the mess than was saved by the toilets in the first place.

By far.

In addition, the oxidizing activity of sodium hypochlorite requires ideal conditions for it to work. Most of what they use will be wasted, won't even get into the oxidation curve until well after it's in the bay. It's a really stupid use of this material.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

A Don't Bleach Our Bay alert has just gone out from eco-blogger Adam Lowry who argues the city would be much better off using a disinfectant like hydrogen peroxide - or better yet, a solution that would naturally break down the bacteria....

Mr. Lowry has (quite) obviously never dealt with slow-drains, at home, that often. Bleach is a helluva-lot-less expensive than all o' those drain-cleaners (i.e. Drano, Liquid Plumber, etc.), and a lot easier on your plumbing. Let a cup-full (of bleach) sit in your drain-trap (for a half-hour), follow with a half-sink full-o'-water flush....problem solved.​

 

[Mad Scientist]

Mr. Lowry has (quite) obviously never dealt with slow-drains, at home, that often. Bleach is a helluva-lot-less expensive than all o' those drain-cleaners (i.e. Drano, Liquid Plumber, etc.), and a lot easier on your plumbing. Let a cup-full (of bleach) sit in your drain-trap (for a half-hour), follow with a half-sink full-o'-water flush....problem solved.

My dad, who is 74 and been a handyman all his life, complains that most cleaning solvents and liquids in use today have had the active ingredient (That which does the work) removed to make it more "eco-friendly" and thus, non effective.

 

[AquaAthena]

See? That's the reason we need those low flow toilets. The money saved will be used to flush out the pipes that get backed up as a result of the low flow toilets! Brilliant!

Why YES! And the green government can claim "look how many people we will put to work because of this problem!"

 

[martybegan]

Years of requiring Low Flow Toilets combined with massive condo construction connecting into an antiquated sewer system have finally reached the inevitable consequence: San Francisco is Constipated. The City is quite literally clogged with shit.

So now, they want to clean out the pipes with BLEACH.

Yet another example of Big Government Do Gooderism backfiring and making things worse.

San Francisco's big push for low-flow toilets has turned into a multimillion-dollar plumbing stink.

Skimping on toilet water has resulted in more sludge backing up inside the sewer pipes, said Tyrone Jue, spokesman for the city Public Utilities Commission. That has created a rotten-egg stench near AT&T Park and elsewhere, especially during the dry summer months.

The city has already spent $100 million over the past five years to upgrade its sewer system and sewage plants, in part to combat the odor problem.

Now officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.

That translates into 8.5 million pounds of bleach either being poured down city drains or into the drinking water supply every year.

Not everybody thinks it's a good idea.

A Don't Bleach Our Bay alert has just gone out from eco-blogger Adam Lowry who argues the city would be much better off using a disinfectant like hydrogen peroxide - or better yet, a solution that would naturally break down the bacteria....

Low-flow toilets cause a stink in SF

Something does not compute. Clogged pipes before the plant would not cause odor issues for plant effluent. What it would cause is odor issues in the streets, as well as possible backups during high flow events.

I need to read up and see if SF has a combined or sanitary sewer system. For the layperson, that means if SF has 1 set of pipes for household sewage and storm water, or two seperate systems for each one. Combined sewers result in untreated wastewater flowing into recieving waters during storm events. This usually isnt too much of an issue as the waste is so dilute from all the excess rainwater that the recieving waters can usually handle it.

If they have combined sewers what SF is probably doing is hitting the stormwater with chlorine to reduce the odors caused by whats called the "first flush." What happens is all the accumulated stuff in the pipes that wont flow during normal flow is washed out when it rains. So what you see is a concentrated slug of "yuck" during the first part of a storm, followed by far more dilute wastewater.

For reference, I am a Water/Wastewater engineer with 14 years of experience

Edit: Combined system, but they have a storage capacity for stormwater, which should capture that first flush. I'm curious as to where they want to use the hypochlorite for odor control, but the article doesnt give real details.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Years of requiring Low Flow Toilets combined with massive condo construction connecting into an antiquated sewer system have finally reached the inevitable consequence: San Francisco is Constipated. The City is quite literally clogged with shit.

So now, they want to clean out the pipes with BLEACH.

Yet another example of Big Government Do Gooderism backfiring and making things worse.

San Francisco's big push for low-flow toilets has turned into a multimillion-dollar plumbing stink.

Skimping on toilet water has resulted in more sludge backing up inside the sewer pipes, said Tyrone Jue, spokesman for the city Public Utilities Commission. That has created a rotten-egg stench near AT&T Park and elsewhere, especially during the dry summer months.

The city has already spent $100 million over the past five years to upgrade its sewer system and sewage plants, in part to combat the odor problem.

Now officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.

That translates into 8.5 million pounds of bleach either being poured down city drains or into the drinking water supply every year.

Not everybody thinks it's a good idea.

A Don't Bleach Our Bay alert has just gone out from eco-blogger Adam Lowry who argues the city would be much better off using a disinfectant like hydrogen peroxide - or better yet, a solution that would naturally break down the bacteria....

Low-flow toilets cause a stink in SF

Something does not compute. Clogged pipes before the plant would not cause odor issues for plant effluent. What it would cause is odor issues in the streets, as well as possible backups during high flow events.

I need to read up and see if SF has a combined or sanitary sewer system. For the layperson, that means if SF has 1 set of pipes for household sewage and storm water, or two seperate systems for each one. Combined sewers result in untreated wastewater flowing into recieving waters during storm events. This usually isnt too much of an issue as the waste is so dilute from all the excess rainwater that the recieving waters can usually handle it.

If they have combined sewers what SF is probably doing is hitting the stormwater with chlorine to reduce the odors caused by whats called the "first flush." What happens is all the accumulated stuff in the pipes that wont flow during normal flow is washed out when it rains. So what you see is a concentrated slug of "yuck" during the first part of a storm, followed by far more dilute wastewater.

For reference, I am a Water/Wastewater engineer with 14 years of experience

Edit: Combined system, but they have a storage capacity for stormwater, which should capture that first flush. I'm curious as to where they want to use the hypochlorite for odor control, but the article doesnt give real details.

Boy, you really know some shit.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

The enzyme stuff . . . isn't that what Rid-X is that you put in for underground sewage systems on properties? That makes more sense than bleach.

So all this bleach is going to go into the bay, killing who knows what.

 

[JBeukema]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

Yeah, but you didn't buy the mayor a hooker, did you? No? So stfu and let the guys with the contract handle this.

 

[peach174]

Perfect example of Socialism. While it has good intentions. It always adds to more problems and more and more costs. This is why it always fails throughout history.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Mr. Lowry has (quite) obviously never dealt with slow-drains, at home, that often. Bleach is a helluva-lot-less expensive than all o' those drain-cleaners (i.e. Drano, Liquid Plumber, etc.), and a lot easier on your plumbing. Let a cup-full (of bleach) sit in your drain-trap (for a half-hour), follow with a half-sink full-o'-water flush....problem solved.

My dad, who is 74 and been a handyman all his life, complains that most cleaning solvents and liquids in use today have had the active ingredient (That which does the work) removed to make it more "eco-friendly" and thus, non effective.

Could be.

Those same active-ingredients used to eat-the-Hell outta older (metal) drain-plumbing, as well.

In the late-'70s, I worked at a business-interest that fabbed motherboards. All post-assembly/soldered boards were cleaned with freon and/or trichloroethane. After the required research, they found super-heated water worked, just-as-well....and, a lot-less expensively.

As usual, Ma Nature was wayyyyyyyyyyy-ahead o' Corporate America & their synthetics.....

Cleaning With d-limonene

 

[martybegan]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

Most hypo used is 15-17%, as the higher concentrations degrade far too quickly. Even 17% hypo is only good for a few months before is degrades.

I'm not sure you can even buy 80-90% hypo outside of lab scale amounts.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

Most hypo used is 15-17%, as the higher concentrations degrade far too quickly. Even 17% hypo is only good for a few months before is degrades.

I'm not sure you can even buy 80-90% hypo outside of lab scale amounts.

Storebought bleach is never over 5%. 80-90% solution is common for industrial use. The 15-17% solution you speak of is common for industrial laundry applications.

 

[martybegan]

Let's not confuse household bleach with sodium hypochlorite. Household bleach is maybe 2-3% NaCIO solution. The stuff the city of SF is stockpiling is 80-90%. It is used as an oxidizer. It has a very specific oxidation curve. It only oxidizes efficiently under certian conditions. They are MUCH better served with a enzyme-type solution in a anionic blend for clearing these pipes than they are using NaCIO. Most of the bleach is going to wind up in the bay, instead of expending itself on the crap. They are making a big mistake.

Most hypo used is 15-17%, as the higher concentrations degrade far too quickly. Even 17% hypo is only good for a few months before is degrades.

I'm not sure you can even buy 80-90% hypo outside of lab scale amounts.

Storebought bleach is never over 5%. 80-90% solution is common for industrial use. The 15-17% solution you speak of is common for industrial laundry applications.

17% is what is used for wastewater treatment, as anything stronger tends to degrade too quickly. It is delivered via tanker truck. What industries use 80%-80% and what the hell is it stored in?