San Fran running adds to attract illegal Immigrants

[Charles_Main]

That it isn't a state's rights issue. I can see where the general welfare clause could cover it being a federal issue. But even then, I'm convinced the general welfare is better served by not spending billions to round up and deport immigrants.

Ahh but then if we controlled the border we would not need to spend Billions to round them up and deport them now would we. Like I said, I am not for going after the 20 Million or so that are here now, As you say it would be impractical, what I am for is controlling the border the best we can to stop the flow of Illegal immigrants.

I am also for addressing the immigration laws, to allow more law abiding ones to come hear legally of course, as well as finding practical ways to help the Nations they come from improve their own situations so maybe so many of them will not feel like they have to leave home to find a better life.

 

[nukeman]

Yep. And like I stated above, they are benefiting us more than they are hurting us so far.

This is a false statement!!!!!

the real concern we should be having is how much the illegals are actually costing us in education, healthcare, and social services..


Hopkins Undergraduate Research Journal

Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA), all American hospitals must provide emergency medical treatment to any who may come to their facility (Cosman). This includes those who are uninsured, are not citizens, and cannot pay. While the government obliges the hospitals to treat these patients, no refunding of their unpaid services must ever occur under the bill?s duties. In other words, hospitals must give unpaid services to their communities, without any guarantee of repayment by a government facility that made it do so. Although a very sensible idea (it is unethical for hospitals to deny care to an uninsured gunshot victim), certain areas of the nation have become overwhelmed by an abuse of this system. As a prime example, between 1993 and present day, over 60 hospitals have closed down in the state of California due to the surge in critical care given to those without insurance, mainly illegal immigrants

The federal gov. is giving Califfornia alone 75 million to offset the cost of health care for illegals

To combat this, the US government gave California emergency hospitals approximately $72 million annually to care for illegal immigrants

many are choosing to raise prices of their services to those who are able to pay i.e. legal US residents. Surveys have given a $1.1 billion figure to what American citizens have to pay for the care of illegal immigrants in the nation

I am glad YOU feel that 1.1 billion dollars is not a economic impact on the LEGAL citizens of the US.


FAIR: Breaking the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red Full Text

Please see this sight for the cost of "eduacting" illegal's

While these massive budget deficits cannot be attributed to any single source, the enormous impact of large-scale illegal immigration cannot be ignored. The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states nearly $12 billion annually, and when the children born here to illegal aliens are added, the costs more than double to $28.6 billion.1

Defenders of illegal aliens assert that the cost of educating illegal alien students is offset by the taxes paid by their parents, but study after study shows that immigrants cost taxpayers much more in public services used than they pay into the system via taxes.7 This is particularly true of illegal immigrants, who are disproportionately low-skilled and thus low-earning and are much more likely to be working in the underground economy or providing contractual services and not withholding taxes.

 

[Ravi]

Ahh but then if we controlled the border we would not need to spend Billions to round them up and deport them now would we. Like I said, I am not for going after the 20 Million or so that are here now, As you say it would be impractical, what I am for is controlling the border the best we can to stop the flow of Illegal immigrants.

I am also for addressing the immigration laws, to allow more law abiding ones to come hear legally of course, as well as finding practical ways to help the Nations they come from improve their own situations so maybe so many of them will not feel like they have to leave home to find a better life.

How would you control the border and how much would it cost? Keep in mind that a fence across the Mexican border would just push the problem to other parts of the country.

 

[Charles_Main]

How would you control the border and how much would it cost? Keep in mind that a fence across the Mexican border would just push the problem to other parts of the country.

the best that we could for a reasonable cost

You are trying to get into hypothetical, and I will not go there with ya.

 

[Charles_Main]

How would you control the border and how much would it cost? Keep in mind that a fence across the Mexican border would just push the problem to other parts of the country.

the best that we could for a reasonable cost

You are trying to get into hypothetical, and I will not go there with ya. Besides you seem to be ignoring my whole second paragraph in favor of continued arguing against doing anything at all to stop the flow of Illegals at all.

 

[Shogun]

If the threat is real enough (and it is) there is no reason to try and bury the solution in a threat of cost. The Military COSTS. It's expensive. And we pay for it because we need it. Similarly, the solutions to illegal immigration are necessary enough that the threat of cost is no roadblock.

Ten point solution for illegal immigration

1. Like I've said before, bring KOA camping and illegal watching into the realm of national past times.

2. Scrap paper I-9s and have debit card-like employment verifications on the point of hire. we have the tech. Use it.

3. Upgrade SS cards like we did drivers lisences so that it takes more than a scanner and bubble jet printer to create false docs.

4. Three strikes policy for businesses with a history of repeat infractions of hiring illegals.

5. Require proof of citizenship for all public funded social welfare programs.

6. Revoke all federal money from sanctuary cities.

7. Fingerprint all illegals who are caught before they are deported, and we MUST deport them, so that a database can be collected. Any illegals with a hisotry of illegal entry automatically loses the chance for citizenship for 5 years, accumulative.

8. Make the citizenship process START at the border, not conveniently in Keokuk, Iowa.

9. Repeal the achor baby aspect of the Constitution. Revise to apply only to kids that have two LEGAL parents.

10. Repeal NAFTA, and all other aid or benny to Mexico until it decides to hop on board and stop deporting it's peasant class to the US.

 

[Ravi]

the best that we could for a reasonable cost

You are trying to get into hypothetical, and I will not go there with ya. Besides you seem to be ignoring my whole second paragraph in favor of continued arguing against doing anything at all to stop the flow of Illegals at all.

I'm not ignoring it, but if you can't stop them from coming in you haven't really accomplished much.

I don't see it as a hypothetical at all. There needs to be a cost analysis done on border control.

 

[CA95380]

S.F. promotes services for illegal immigrants

Well this is certainly a unique approach to the issue.

Minutemen protest S.F.'s sanctuary policy

Other interesting facts about San Francisco and her Mayor http://www.sfgov.org/site/mayor_index.asp?id=43504

 

[Alpha1]

Yep. And like I stated above, they are benefiting us more than they are hurting us so far.

Think so...? Read this carefully....

From the L. A. Times


1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County. )


(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegalns ar e picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida , and New York) results from immigration.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

 

[Ravi]

link?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Dunno about the rest of those figures, but I'm pretty sure that immigrants in total account for 40% of US population growth. I'll post a link later.

On a similar note, it's important to remember that it is crucial for sustainable economic growth to maintain a good population growth. There's no doubt of this, but for anyone interested I'd suggest looking up the major problem Europe and Japan are expected to undergo in the coming decades as the age pyramid inverts to unsustainable proportions.

 

[Alpha1]

link?

That was just to rile you up....Snoops can't verify those facts, but I thought I'd get a rise out of you anyway...

snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

 

[Ravi]

That was just to rile you up....Snoops can't verify those facts, but I thought I'd get a rise out of you anyway...

snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

I honestly don't know why people lie like this. Do you want to know the truth, or do you just want to spread misinformation?

 

[Alpha1]

I honestly don't know why people lie like this. Do you want to know the truth, or do you just want to spread misinformation?

The point is, Snoops doesn't just call it all lies....they just can't verify the numbers....
I've read reports in newspapers from various cites in Texas, Okla, Calif. Ariz. etc, stating the burden illegals have on the health systems and enormous cost to hospitals in treating them in many places...in most cases they don't pay for services....same with crime reports, the burden on school systems and social services...but I've never seen anyone actually put together a real report about this stuff.....but the cost to US taxpayers must be enormous.....so, I'd tend to believe the worst until it can be proved otherwise....

 

[Trigg]

I'm not ignoring it, but if you can't stop them from coming in you haven't really accomplished much.

I don't see it as a hypothetical at all. There needs to be a cost analysis done on border control.

You're ignoring any post that has links. There doesn't need to be a cost analysis on border control. Does their need to be a cost analysis on police work, simply because people continue to be arrested??? Should we just throw up our hands and declair them the winners, because they'll just continue to commit crime????

Nukeman provided links on the cost of illegals on our hospitals and schools. Here are other links for you to ignore.


$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

 

[Trigg]

As far as border control "not accomplishing much" simply because the flow isn't stopped completely.

As far as I know nothing bad is ever stopped completely. Enforcement stems the flow to a reasonable level. If, because of a wall or virtual fencing, fewer people are able to sneak into this country than rounding up the ones that make it through is easier.

After the flood is controlled the gov. needs to go after employers.

 

[matty]

As far as border control "not accomplishing much" simply because the flow isn't stopped completely.

As far as I know nothing bad is ever stopped completely. Enforcement stems the flow to a reasonable level. If, because of a wall or virtual fencing, fewer people are able to sneak into this country than rounding up the ones that make it through is easier.

After the flood is controlled the gov. needs to go after employers.

...that's supposed to serve as a check n' balance on this whole process, or at least help. I can't remember what it is but it's something the gov is supposed to mete out annually as a census to employers.

Now, this's really foggy, but a long time ago I was reading about it and what the article said was there were supposed to be a certain number of them sent out each yr, whereas the number actually sent was some crazy-miniscule fraction of the whole.

 

[steeliniraq]

Well yes this is a great idea. Go against what the federal govt. says. Spit in the face of legal Americans. Go ahead and welcome people that are going to crush our support system. You all want free health care, huh?! Well keep allowing people to come to this country and using our health system and soon no one will be able to afford health care! Way to think it through!