Sad Commentary on our direction as a Nation

[Chris67]

I'm one of a great many completely discouraged about our economy and the shape our country is in. I'm especially saddened when I think of the shape of our country morally.

I read this article and cannot agree with the author any more as he or she hit the nail on the head.

google husbandtribe dot com under "news and opinion". Well worth the quick search.

After reading it, does anyone see how our country can shape up in our lifetime or am I being too critical?

 

[YWN666]

I'm one of a great many completely discouraged about our economy and the shape our country is in. I'm especially saddened when I think of the shape of our country morally.

I read this article and cannot agree with the author any more as he or she hit the nail on the head.

google husbandtribe dot com under "news and opinion". Well worth the quick search.

After reading it, does anyone see how our country can shape up in our lifetime or am I being too critical?

I think it depends on how you look at it. Our economy isn't the best but it has been much worse. As far as morality, we have our problems but would you rather live back in the "good old days" when african-americans were lynched and spousal and child abuse and drunk driving were pretty much ignored? People lied back then as much as they do now. Maybe those good old days weren't so good.

 

[AllieBaba]

If you pick apart the traditional family, and sneer at traditional family values such as belief in God, the sanctity of marriage and life and living honorably and with your vision turned outward, towards the good of others, instead of inward....then you are going to have a crisis.

And we're having it. Traditional families are no longer respected or seen as things of value. They are being supplanted by non-traditional families; i.e., families headed by homosexuals. People for the past 40 years have been encouraged to "find themselves" at the cost of their families, and to walk away from their families at the first sign of difficulty or less than perfect happiness...and then are encouraged to play the field and bring serial partners into the family home, where their children are exposed.

Religion, particularly Christianity, has been labeled as "extremism" by progressives and it has become the accepted thing to mock and ridicule those who adhere to a specific religion (except Islam, of course. They get all sorts of respect) or who dare to declare a belief in God. Despite the best efforts of the religious right to maintain religion separate from government, the left insists on trying to legislate religion; attempting to identify biblical text as "hate speech" and attempting to remove the tax free status of churches..forcing them into "business" and thus removing any strictures which remain which keep the churches separate from our government.

Add to this the fact that our children are encouraged to experiment with sex, are taught that there's no such thing as "bad" sex, and provided with sex counseling, contraceptives, and abortion clinic information, while at the same time the schools are attacking the family if and when children choose to marry instead of abort....while at the same time the abortion clinics refuse to research who, exactly, is getting these young girls pregnant and holding them accountable for their (often) illegal behavior.

Of course our morals suck and life has no meaning. The liberal progressives have been calling the shots. You want it to end? Get rid of them and quit shrugging your shoulders at their outrageous behavior.

 

[YWN666]

Religion, particularly Christianity, has been labeled as "extremism" by progressives and it has become the accepted thing to mock and ridicule those who adhere to a specific religion (except Islam, of course. They get all sorts of respect) or who dare to declare a belief in God. Despite the best efforts of the religious right to maintain religion separate from government, the left insists on trying to legislate religion; attempting to identify biblical text as "hate speech" and attempting to remove the tax free status of churches..forcing them into "business" and thus removing any strictures which remain which keep the churches separate from our government.

The only religious people I have seen mocked and ridiculed are the disrespectful, selfish ones who insist on forcing their religion on others. The respectful people who practice their religion without grandstanding and who treat others the way they want to be treated (sorta like that guy Jesus taught) are applauded.

If you really want to examine a nosedive in morals, look at the fundamentalist part of many religions. Child molesting, sex scandals, extortion, lying, cheating and those are just the clergy!

 

[WillowTree]

The only religious people I have seen mocked and ridiculed are the disrespectful, selfish ones who insist on forcing their religion on others. The respectful people who practice their religion without grandstanding and who treat others the way they want to be treated (sorta like that guy Jesus taught) are applauded.

If you really want to examine a nosedive in morals, look at the fundamentalist part of many religions. Child molesting, sex scandals, extortion, lying, cheating and those are just the clergy!

who are these people? Other than Jehovah Witness's I have never met any religous people who insis on forcing thier religion on other people. who are these people of whom you speak.

 

[Silence]

If you pick apart the traditional family, and sneer at traditional family values such as belief in God, the sanctity of marriage and life and living honorably and with your vision turned outward, towards the good of others, instead of inward....then you are going to have a crisis.

And we're having it. Traditional families are no longer respected or seen as things of value. They are being supplanted by non-traditional families; i.e., families headed by homosexuals. People for the past 40 years have been encouraged to "find themselves" at the cost of their families, and to walk away from their families at the first sign of difficulty or less than perfect happiness...and then are encouraged to play the field and bring serial partners into the family home, where their children are exposed.

Religion, particularly Christianity, has been labeled as "extremism" by progressives and it has become the accepted thing to mock and ridicule those who adhere to a specific religion (except Islam, of course. They get all sorts of respect) or who dare to declare a belief in God. Despite the best efforts of the religious right to maintain religion separate from government, the left insists on trying to legislate religion; attempting to identify biblical text as "hate speech" and attempting to remove the tax free status of churches..forcing them into "business" and thus removing any strictures which remain which keep the churches separate from our government.

Add to this the fact that our children are encouraged to experiment with sex, are taught that there's no such thing as "bad" sex, and provided with sex counseling, contraceptives, and abortion clinic information, while at the same time the schools are attacking the family if and when children choose to marry instead of abort....while at the same time the abortion clinics refuse to research who, exactly, is getting these young girls pregnant and holding them accountable for their (often) illegal behavior.

Of course our morals suck and life has no meaning. The liberal progressives have been calling the shots. You want it to end? Get rid of them and quit shrugging your shoulders at their outrageous behavior.

Allie, you are a nutter.

 

[AllieBaba]

The only religious people I have seen mocked and ridiculed are the disrespectful, selfish ones who insist on forcing their religion on others. The respectful people who practice their religion without grandstanding and who treat others the way they want to be treated (sorta like that guy Jesus taught) are applauded.

If you really want to examine a nosedive in morals, look at the fundamentalist part of many religions. Child molesting, sex scandals, extortion, lying, cheating and those are just the clergy!

Case in point.

Tell me who on this board is disrespectful, selfish, and forcing their religion upon others.

Sharing your beliefs with others doesn't count.

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie, you are a nutter.

Yes. Thank you. Another case in point. A perfect example of a liberal progressive who labels those who value life and has respect for traditional values as a "nutter".

 

[Otter_Creek]

who are these people? Other than Jehovah Witness's I have never met any religous people who insis on forcing thier religion on other people. who are these people of whom you speak.

I think they mean by "Forcing" their religion on others, is those who have the audacity to post their faith on a message board such as this one.

I think silence will agree ... off with their heads!!

 

[Silence]

Yes. Thank you. Another case in point. A perfect example of a liberal progressive who labels those who value life and has respect for traditional values as a "nutter".

it's the way your present your "traditional" values Allie which is your right to do as you please

I live in a "non-traditional" household. I am a single mother. I've been single since before my daughter was born. You would have me believe that it's MY fault that people do the things they do? simply because I'm not married with the white picket fence and a dog named spot!

To you, believing in the right to choose = moral bankruptcy. Believing that people love who they love and shouldn't be punished for loving another person = moral failure.

You live in a world that is so narrow that I'm not sure how you don't suffocate.

The God I believe in tells me it's not MY job to judge others. I'm here to offer support if needed and wisdom if asked. I share my faith if someone is so inclined to inquire about it. I do not carry a bible nor do I advertise my beliefs except insomuch as I have a tattoo of the fisher of men symbol on my wrist (which is a conversation starter for sure). I'm open and honest about my faith in God but I do not feel the need to badger people into believing what I believe. People come to God in their own time and in their own way when they are ready. I trust that God knows what He is doing and I don't second guess Him.

 

[AllieBaba]

it's the way your present your "traditional" values Allie which is your right to do as you please

I live in a "non-traditional" household. I am a single mother. I've been single since before my daughter was born. You would have me believe that it's MY fault that people do the things they do? simply because I'm not married with the white picket fence and a dog named spot!

To you, believing in the right to choose = moral bankruptcy. Believing that people love who they love and shouldn't be punished for loving another person = moral failure.

You live in a world that is so narrow that I'm not sure how you don't suffocate.

The God I believe in tells me it's not MY job to judge others. I'm here to offer support if needed and wisdom if asked. I share my faith if someone is so inclined to inquire about it. I do not carry a bible nor do I advertise my beliefs except insomuch as I have a tattoo of the fisher of men symbol on my wrist (which is a conversation starter for sure). I'm open and honest about my faith in God but I do not feel the need to badger people into believing what I believe. People come to God in their own time and in their own way when they are ready. I trust that God knows what He is doing and I don't second guess Him.

No, you loon, I don't believe any of those things. I'm a single mother, too. My world is definitely not narrow. I'm not the one assigning thoughts and feelings (incorrectly) to others based solely on my own narrow vision of what I THINK their faith means.

So we're changing from hating Christians because they "force" their religion on others, to stating we just have a problem with the way it's "presented".

I don't badger people into believing anything, never have never will. I defend my own belief from assholes who call me a "nutter" a "bible thumper" and "narrow minded" without having so much of a glimmer into what I'm about. I defend myself from assholes who ask me what I believe, then start screaming that I'm trying to "force" my religion down their throat when I state my beliefs.

I believe abortion is wrong. I believe our government is wrong in promoting it, and I don't believe that is the government's job. Do I think women who have aborted are morally bankrupt? Have I ever said that? I don't believe I have. I have said I pity women who are lulled into believing it's a good choice by a government and a loud-mouthed pack of progressive teachers who tell our children that it's a good choice, devoid of any sort of repercussion. I pray for women who have had abortions (and this isn't impersonal, believe me) and I have no intention of saying here or anywhere else that I know what, if any, price they will ultimately pay. I have no idea. I just know that at its core it's wrong. And it's wrong to tell people otherwise.

That's not forcing anythign down anyone's throat. I get so sick of progressives who will screech their own hideous beliefs all over the place, and are insulting when they do it...who cry "foul!" when some person DARES to voice an opinion that is different from theirs.

Newsflash. Just because somebody has a different opinion doesn't mean they're 1. forcing it down your throat, or 2. narrow minded.

That's just rhetoric.

 

[AllieBaba]

Also, while I respect your faith that people come to God on their own, which I share, in part...I also believe that true Christians proclaim their faith, despite the obstacles.

However, I do have to remind myself about casting pearls before swine sometimes, when I come under attack for being Christian and instead of just walking away, I actually attempt to argue the case.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Case in point.

Tell me who on this board is disrespectful, selfish, and forcing their religion upon others.

Sharing your beliefs with others doesn't count.

Apparently you don't read much of what Charlie Bass posts here.......

 

[sky dancer]

who are these people? Other than Jehovah Witness's I have never met any religous people who insis on forcing thier religion on other people. who are these people of whom you speak.

The ones who poured money into the state of California to make sure Proposition 8 passed for one. These are Utah Mormons and Roman Catholics.

They seek to impose their religious values on civil marriage laws.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bullshit.
The progressives are striving to gain control of RELIGION via the government. First they do it by imposing sanctions, as some genius here pointed out yesterday, removing tax free status from those churches who refuse to marry homosexuals or allow them to become members; then they do it by declaring certain passages of the bible as "hate" speech, thereby gaining a way to control the content of the bible and of sermons.

Tell me more about how Christians are trying to get religion into the government. We've got nutter progressives breathing down our necks every second of every day, trying to infiltrate, alter, and legislate our religion.

 

[AllieBaba]

Apparently you don't read much of what Charlie Bass posts here.......

Bass is about 10,000 times more appropriate and considerate than you are.

 

[jillian]

Bullshit.
The progressives are striving to gain control of RELIGION via the government. First they do it by imposing sanctions, as some genius here pointed out yesterday, removing tax free status from those churches who refuse to marry homosexuals or allow them to become members; then they do it by declaring certain passages of the bible as "hate" speech, thereby gaining a way to control the content of the bible and of sermons.

Tell me more about how Christians are trying to get religion into the government. We've got nutter progressives breathing down our necks every second of every day, trying to infiltrate, alter, and legislate our religion.

could you spout more lies? I don't think there were enough in that paragraph.

is your little ole church, that thinks everyone but you is going to hell except you, actually telling you that the nasty old "g-dless libs" are going to force y'all t o marry queers?

RAFLMAO!!! Keep your church out of government and we'll keep the government out of your church.

You're insane, aren't you?

 

[ABikerSailor]

If you pick apart the traditional family, and sneer at traditional family values such as belief in God, the sanctity of marriage and life and living honorably and with your vision turned outward, towards the good of others, instead of inward....then you are going to have a crisis.

And we're having it. Traditional families are no longer respected or seen as things of value. They are being supplanted by non-traditional families; i.e., families headed by homosexuals. People for the past 40 years have been encouraged to "find themselves" at the cost of their families, and to walk away from their families at the first sign of difficulty or less than perfect happiness...and then are encouraged to play the field and bring serial partners into the family home, where their children are exposed.

Religion, particularly Christianity, has been labeled as "extremism" by progressives and it has become the accepted thing to mock and ridicule those who adhere to a specific religion (except Islam, of course. They get all sorts of respect) or who dare to declare a belief in God. Despite the best efforts of the religious right to maintain religion separate from government, the left insists on trying to legislate religion; attempting to identify biblical text as "hate speech" and attempting to remove the tax free status of churches..forcing them into "business" and thus removing any strictures which remain which keep the churches separate from our government.

Add to this the fact that our children are encouraged to experiment with sex, are taught that there's no such thing as "bad" sex, and provided with sex counseling, contraceptives, and abortion clinic information, while at the same time the schools are attacking the family if and when children choose to marry instead of abort....while at the same time the abortion clinics refuse to research who, exactly, is getting these young girls pregnant and holding them accountable for their (often) illegal behavior.

Of course our morals suck and life has no meaning. The liberal progressives have been calling the shots. You want it to end? Get rid of them and quit shrugging your shoulders at their outrageous behavior.

Okay.....picking apart the "traditional" family? Ummmm......do we REALLY think people who by virtue of being heterosexual that automatically makes them better and more capable parents than those that aren't? I lived with a couple of lesbians while I was stationed in Norfolk. There was also a child with them, and they NEVER had to answer any questions as to if they were "suitable" parents or not. Me? I was raised by a heterosexual couple. My real father divorced my mother after 1 year of marriage. She then married an Air Force dude who ended up beating me senseless once a week, and I won't even tell you about the third one......he was the worst. So tell me again how heteros are much better parents?

As far as traditional families not being respected? Well......with the current crop of people divorcing each other, the unfaithful wives who end up having sex with students, the homosexual cheating (Ted Haggard), or any of the other politicians who are caught? How are those very people who scream about traditional families respecting the very values they espouse?

About the "finding yourself part"......it hasn't been just over the past 40 years......ever heard of the American Frontier? How about Westward Ho? Wanna go back farther than that? Talk to the Native Americans about their first spirit walk where they go to meet their spirit animal. Even farther? How's about the Aboriginies who go on walkabout? Sorry.....just because others don't subscribe to your way, doesn't mean that others are wrong. A good example of that would be for me to ask you to go to a war zone and live there for a month or two, with few showers, little food, and lots of discomfort. Me? I consider that my way, as I've been in the military. I don't expect others to do it, but I also let them know that just because I do, doesn't make you better than me.

And no....our children aren't being forced to experiment with sex. However, abstinence only education NEVER works. Example? Just because you close a door and tell someone to not go in there and rip you off, and then you come home and find your closet empty, doesn't mean you should not have taken precautions. A door lock would have helped quite a bit. So would sex education in our schools that taught about what contraceptives are for and how they work, that way THEY can "lock the door". Quick question for you by the way.....would you rather pay for a condom or an abortion?

And.....as far as the liberal progressives calling the shots? Nope.....the conservatives have been doing it all their lives, telling us what to believe, who to believe in and all that other crap.

It's just that the liberal progressives have quit listening to the lies and gone their own way.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Bass is about 10,000 times more appropriate and considerate than you are.

HEY MANIFOLD!!!!! I'VE GOT A POLL IDEA FOR YOU!!!

Who is more disrespectful......me or Chucking Ass?

 

[sky dancer]

Study the dominionist movement my friend.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/govern_suspending_rules.htm