Sabra and Shatila: 30 Years Ago Today

[georgephillip]

Are we back to the Viet Nam war, Georgie, because it is obvious that a coward like you wouldn't even defend this country if needed. Did you even go into the California National Guard during peacetime so you could help out here if needed during natural disasters? So you know one Armenian. Why not ask many Armenians if they support Israel over the Arabs after what happened to their people? Meanwhile, why not do as I suggest and go speak to the citizens in your area who are Hindus, Assyrians, Buddhists, etc. and ask them how they feel about the Muslims? By the way, Georgie, since you are blaming the tragedy at Damour on the creation of the State of Israel, could you tell us if Israel was to blame for the tragedy of the over two million Christians murdered in the Sudan by Muslims? How about the Hindus murdered in Bangladesh by the Pakistani Army? It's really pathetic when you have posters like Georgie putting the blame on Israel for what happened instead of saying that the Palestinians didn't have to start up in Darmour in the first place.

The Palestinians in Darmour in 1982 would not have been there if one-third of the population of Mandate Palestine had not imposed a Jewish State on all Palestinians in 1948. Since Zionists haven't seen fit to occupy Sudan (yet), I'm guessing that's why we don't want to blame Israel for the tragedy of two million murdered Christians in that particular hell-hole.

The Armenians I know aren't inclined toward prejudge Jew or Arab, which, I suspect, is in stark contrast to most fundamentalists you associate with.

Finally, hero, I couldn't help noticing the two words "if needed" at the end of the first sentence in the above post.

Are you conceding the people of Vietnam posed no threat to this country?
If so, why did you serve two tours?
You didn't murder, maim, displace, and incarcerate enough "gooks" in your first 13 months?
How much courage does it take to commit war crimes?
Less than it takes to resist.

You shouldn't judge anyone until you stand in his shoes. Different winds are blowing now than during the Communist hysteria of that time. The draft was in place at that time, and if someone's country calls a man to duty, some men feel it's their obligation to serve their country.

You seem to regularly value the worth of others and make an honest attempt at understanding their opinions, and everything in your post is true as far as it goes. I don't know if you were alive at the time of the US occupation of South Vietnam; I was, and many of those who served in that occupation did so solely to test their own courage under fire with little or no regard for how many innocent civilians they killed; then some of them whined about no parades when they came home.

"The choice facing the world is 'stark and dreadful and inescapable: shall we put an end to the human race; or shall mankind renounce war?'"

Hoss and some of his conservative cousins are advocating the former because they want to meet Jesus. I'm thinking that's a mistake. What about you?

Noam Chomsky, Failed States; P.3

 

[Hossfly]

Since I couldn't find Lamb's name or my own on Stormfront, why don't you link to something he's written that proves he is a Nazi?

Nidal Hasan would have never committed his crimes if his government hadn't launched a pair of illegal invasions that have killed, maimed, incarcerated, and displaced MILLIONS of innocent Muslims. Would you care more if we had killed, maimed, incarcerated, and displaced an equal number of Jews?

You strangling on your own kosher bile and bullshit.
Maybe you need a time out?

Was it up to Hassan to be the judge and executioner? And you are actually justifying his actions on a public forum. Or are you on his "defense" team? The guilty, sane SOB has no defense.

"The Dallas Morning News reported on November 17 that ABC News, citing anonymous sources, reported that investigators suspect that the shootings were triggered by the refusal of Hasan's superiors to process his requests that sought to have some of his patients prosecuted for war crimes based on statements they made during psychiatric sessions with him."

Nidal Malik Hasan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hasan will be punished for his crimes while all those "patriotic" conservatives who instigated and executed the mass murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of innocent human beings expect to be thanked for their service.

Your country is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.
You made a choice to actively participate in that violence.
Twice.
Your crimes made Hasan's inevitable.
Thanks.

If the Intelligence Services are still monitoring these board, I hope they look into Georgie since, as you can clearly see, he hates the U.S. and is finding excuses for what the murderer Major Hasan did.

 

[georgephillip]

Your commitment to free speech is exactly what I've come to expect from most conservatives.
Hasan hasn't killed any civilians as far as we know, how about you?

 

[Hossfly]

Was it up to Hassan to be the judge and executioner? And you are actually justifying his actions on a public forum. Or are you on his "defense" team? The guilty, sane SOB has no defense.

"The Dallas Morning News reported on November 17 that ABC News, citing anonymous sources, reported that investigators suspect that the shootings were triggered by the refusal of Hasan's superiors to process his requests that sought to have some of his patients prosecuted for war crimes based on statements they made during psychiatric sessions with him."

Nidal Malik Hasan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hasan will be punished for his crimes while all those "patriotic" conservatives who instigated and executed the mass murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of innocent human beings expect to be thanked for their service.

Your country is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.
You made a choice to actively participate in that violence.
Twice.
Your crimes made Hasan's inevitable.
Thanks.

If the Intelligence Services are still monitoring these board, I hope they look into Georgie since, as you can clearly see, he hates the U.S. and is finding excuses for what the murderer Major Hasan did.

P.S. - What do you mean by your country? Is this not your country too. Seems to me it's not, otherwise you would be outraged by this Muslim filth for killing Americans. And not even the ones he was mad at. Just that good ol' Palestinian mentality kicking in. By the way, who writes all those posts for you? Hamas or Al Qaeda?

 

[georgephillip]

My country, your country, our country is still the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.
You're quick to condemn "that god ol' Palestinian mentality" without once considering how many innocent Muslims the US has killed. I don't believe an accident of birth trumps universal moral principals, apparently you do.

 

[irosie91]

My country, your country, our country is still the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.
You're quick to condemn "that god ol' Palestinian mentality" without once considering how many innocent Muslims the US has killed. I don't believe an accident of birth trumps universal moral principals, apparently you do.

My country is the united states of america The USA in the slightly more than 200 years of its existence has not killed anything near the number of people who have died as a result of islamic ideology in the past 200 years Most muslims are innocent---just as most germans were innocent during world war II and most southern americans were innocent even in the days of slavery

just in the past 40 years muslims have murdered millions for RELIGIOUS reasons apprently you do not consider hindus, or biafrans or sudanese christians to be HUMANS You do not even consider the shiites of Iraq to be humans or the kurds ---or ---for that matter the bengali muslims

however ---most of the genocidal activity of islam ----does PRECEDE the past 40 years

 

[Hossfly]

Your commitment to free speech is exactly what I've come to expect from most conservatives.
Hasan hasn't killed any civilians as far as we know, how about you?

Let's forget about civilians and military, Jerk. He killed innocent people and you are excusing his actions and are agreeing with what he did and approving it. We'll see about this matter.

 

[irosie91]

Nidal Malik Hasan was a doctor who murdered people of his own patient population----violating a myriad of oaths that he voluntarily swore. He is
a muslim who could have easily left the military----just WALKED OUT and
joined his mentor ANWAY AL-AWLAKI in Yemen where not only do they need doctors----but Yemen is SHARIAH ADHERENT SHIT HOLE. He murdered
because, as A MUSLIM, he wanted to murder non muslims. There was really nothing stopping him from leaving the USA The army does not keep its
personnel under guard----especially not the doctors. For the record----doctors are not supposed to kill people -----any people yet lots of muslim doctors in history have devoted their lives to that endeavor as terrorists ----not in BATTLE but in TERRORISM Hasan's action was as terrorist as it gets. He did not kill soldiers in COMBAT That he killed "non-civilians" is just about the most obscene islamo nazi pig statement of the century

 

[georgephillip]

Your commitment to free speech is exactly what I've come to expect from most conservatives.
Hasan hasn't killed any civilians as far as we know, how about you?

Let's forget about civilians and military, Jerk. He killed innocent people and you are excusing his actions and are agreeing with what he did and approving it. We'll see about this matter.

I'm neither agreeing with nor approving of Hasan's alleged crimes.
I'm saying they pale in significance to the crimes of the US government and, quite possibly, your own.
See about that.
Bitch.

 

[georgephillip]

My country, your country, our country is still the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.
You're quick to condemn "that god ol' Palestinian mentality" without once considering how many innocent Muslims the US has killed. I don't believe an accident of birth trumps universal moral principals, apparently you do.

My country is the united states of america The USA in the slightly more than 200 years of its existence has not killed anything near the number of people who have died as a result of islamic ideology in the past 200 years Most muslims are innocent---just as most germans were innocent during world war II and most southern americans were innocent even in the days of slavery

just in the past 40 years muslims have murdered millions for RELIGIOUS reasons apprently you do not consider hindus, or biafrans or sudanese christians to be HUMANS You do not even consider the shiites of Iraq to be humans or the kurds ---or ---for that matter the bengali muslims

however ---most of the genocidal activity of islam ----does PRECEDE the past 40 years

The Muslims haven't killed thousands of American children, have they?
They haven't murdered, maimed, incarcerated, or displaced millions of American civilians either.
Your knee-jerk reflex to vomit forth "proof" of Muslim war crimes doesn't absolve the US and Israel from their crimes in Sabra and Shatila.

 

[Hossfly]

My country, your country, our country is still the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.
You're quick to condemn "that god ol' Palestinian mentality" without once considering how many innocent Muslims the US has killed. I don't believe an accident of birth trumps universal moral principals, apparently you do.

My country is the united states of america The USA in the slightly more than 200 years of its existence has not killed anything near the number of people who have died as a result of islamic ideology in the past 200 years Most muslims are innocent---just as most germans were innocent during world war II and most southern americans were innocent even in the days of slavery

just in the past 40 years muslims have murdered millions for RELIGIOUS reasons apprently you do not consider hindus, or biafrans or sudanese christians to be HUMANS You do not even consider the shiites of Iraq to be humans or the kurds ---or ---for that matter the bengali muslims

however ---most of the genocidal activity of islam ----does PRECEDE the past 40 years

The Muslims haven't killed thousands of American children, have they?
They haven't murdered, maimed, incarcerated, or displaced millions of American civilians either.
Your knee-jerk reflex to vomit forth "proof" of Muslim war crimes doesn't absolve the US and Israel from their crimes in Sabra and Shatila.

They would if they had the chance. That's what Islam is all about IMO.

 

[irosie91]

My country, your country, our country is still the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet.
You're quick to condemn "that god ol' Palestinian mentality" without once considering how many innocent Muslims the US has killed. I don't believe an accident of birth trumps universal moral principals, apparently you do.

My country is the united states of america The USA in the slightly more than 200 years of its existence has not killed anything near the number of people who have died as a result of islamic ideology in the past 200 years Most muslims are innocent---just as most germans were innocent during world war II and most southern americans were innocent even in the days of slavery

just in the past 40 years muslims have murdered millions for RELIGIOUS reasons apprently you do not consider hindus, or biafrans or sudanese christians to be HUMANS You do not even consider the shiites of Iraq to be humans or the kurds ---or ---for that matter the bengali muslims


however ---most of the genocidal activity of islam ----does PRECEDE the past 40 years

The Muslims haven't killed thousands of American children, have they?
They haven't murdered, maimed, incarcerated, or displaced millions of American civilians either.

Your knee-jerk reflex to vomit forth "proof" of Muslim war crimes doesn't absolve the US and Israel from their crimes in Sabra and Shatila.

The US and ISRAEL did not commit any crime in Sabra and Shattila some lebanese christians attacked in revenge over that which muslims in Lebanon had done to them-----which actually does amount to a GENOCIDE that started more than 50 years ago

you are right----about muslims in the USA so far most of their attempts at massive killing has failed If your hero SHAYKH ABDEL RAHMAN----had accomplished that which he set out to do in 1993----thousands of american children would have died in New York City That pig actually believed his was going to make the WORLD TRADE CENTER TOPPLE OVER MANHATTAN and right on top of a school with more than 5000 students The failed islamic attack on RIVERDALE, NY synagogues would have killed-----lots of children and elderly------and lots of kids in wheel chairs------the pigs targeted a synagogue known for its on site social services for the elderly and for sick kids. Did you hear about the plot to FLOOD MANHATTAN by blowing up the HOLLAND TUNNEL--------It would not have worked anyway How about that SATURDAY NITE attempt to bomb TIMES SQUARE and all those play land places that kids love

 

[georgephillip]

Where did those Lebanese Christians get their weapons and transportation?
Who allowed the Christians access to Sabra and Shatila?
Whose flares lit up the night sky over the camps during three days of mass murder and rape?
Where did Israel get the weapons, transportation and flares from?

"ON the night of Sept. 16, 1982, the Israeli military allowed a right-wing Lebanese militia to enter two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In the ensuing three-day rampage, the militia, linked to the Maronite Christian Phalange Party, raped, killed and dismembered at least 800 civilians, while Israeli flares illuminated the camps’ narrow and darkened alleyways. Nearly all of the dead were women, children and elderly men."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917

BTW, what's the name of that Manhattan school with more than 5000 students?
AIPAC-U?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Where did those Lebanese Christians get their weapons and transportation?
Who allowed the Christians access to Sabra and Shatila?
Whose flares lit up the night sky over the camps during three days of mass murder and rape?
Where did Israel get the weapons, transportation and flares from?

"ON the night of Sept. 16, 1982, the Israeli military allowed a right-wing Lebanese militia to enter two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In the ensuing three-day rampage, the militia, linked to the Maronite Christian Phalange Party, raped, killed and dismembered at least 800 civilians, while Israeli flares illuminated the camps’ narrow and darkened alleyways. Nearly all of the dead were women, children and elderly men."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917

BTW, what's the name of that Manhattan school with more than 5000 students?
AIPAC-U?

Clearly, it was a mistake for the IDF to have trusted the Lebanese militia.

 

[irosie91]

The IDF did not PREVENT the christians from entering the camp------If I were in command of a unit on alien soil-----and two parties in conflict -----IN THAT ALIEN place----- came into proximity-----I would certainly not risk my men to try to separate them It is amazing how much islamo nazi pigs DEPEND ON JEWS to mediate and solve their problems and PROTECT THEM


where did any of the players get their weapons-----where does NUSKHARAH-ALLAH find his missile launchers and poison nail bombs IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS? who asked the idiot question "WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR WEAPONS? ----answer....gumball machines

 

[georgephillip]

Where did those Lebanese Christians get their weapons and transportation?
Who allowed the Christians access to Sabra and Shatila?
Whose flares lit up the night sky over the camps during three days of mass murder and rape?
Where did Israel get the weapons, transportation and flares from?

"ON the night of Sept. 16, 1982, the Israeli military allowed a right-wing Lebanese militia to enter two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In the ensuing three-day rampage, the militia, linked to the Maronite Christian Phalange Party, raped, killed and dismembered at least 800 civilians, while Israeli flares illuminated the camps’ narrow and darkened alleyways. Nearly all of the dead were women, children and elderly men."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917

BTW, what's the name of that Manhattan school with more than 5000 students?
AIPAC-U?

Clearly, it was a mistake for the IDF to have trusted the Lebanese militia.

There seems to be some questions about IDF motives, as well:

"By Sept. 16, (the day the massacre began) the I.D.F. was fully in control of West Beirut, including Sabra and Shatila.

"In Washington that same day, Under Secretary of State Lawrence S. Eagleburger told the Israeli ambassador, Moshe Arens, that 'Israel’s credibility has been severely damaged' and that 'we appear to some to be the victim of deliberate deception by Israel.'

"He demanded that Israel withdraw from West Beirut immediately.

"In Tel Aviv, Mr. Draper and the American ambassador, Samuel W. Lewis, met with top Israeli officials.

"Contrary to Prime Minister Begin’s earlier assurances, Defense Minister Sharon said the occupation of West Beirut was justified because there were '2,000 to 3,000 terrorists who remained there.' Mr. Draper disputed this claim; having coordinated the August evacuation, he knew the number was minuscule.

"Mr. Draper said he was horrified to hear that Mr. Sharon was considering allowing the Phalange militia into West Beirut. Even the I.D.F. chief of staff, Rafael Eitan, acknowledged to the Americans that he feared 'a relentless slaughter.'”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917&

 

[irosie91]

The people responsible for the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla were the Phalangists ---the idea that SHARON controlled them is as idiotic as the Iranian claim that Iranians demonstrated in the streets of Teheran because BRITISH PEOPLE told them to
The Phalangists were acting in revenge against the people who had grabbed their daughters ---raped them and beheaded them at DAMOUR That is in sum and substance what happened Sharon was critisized for not STOPPING Lebanese from killing Lebanese Right now YEMENIS ARE KILLING YEMENIS who is being held responsible ?? well---IF THE JEWS HAD STAYED IN YEMEN---MAYBE THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THE MUSLIMS FROM KILLING THE MUSLIMS. The streets of SANAA are running red with blood------I happen to know some jews FROM SANAA want to fly them back there to fix things up?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Where did those Lebanese Christians get their weapons and transportation?
Who allowed the Christians access to Sabra and Shatila?
Whose flares lit up the night sky over the camps during three days of mass murder and rape?
Where did Israel get the weapons, transportation and flares from?

"ON the night of Sept. 16, 1982, the Israeli military allowed a right-wing Lebanese militia to enter two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In the ensuing three-day rampage, the militia, linked to the Maronite Christian Phalange Party, raped, killed and dismembered at least 800 civilians, while Israeli flares illuminated the camps’ narrow and darkened alleyways. Nearly all of the dead were women, children and elderly men."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917

BTW, what's the name of that Manhattan school with more than 5000 students?
AIPAC-U?

Clearly, it was a mistake for the IDF to have trusted the Lebanese militia.

There seems to be some questions about IDF motives, as well:

"By Sept. 16, (the day the massacre began) the I.D.F. was fully in control of West Beirut, including Sabra and Shatila.

"In Washington that same day, Under Secretary of State Lawrence S. Eagleburger told the Israeli ambassador, Moshe Arens, that 'Israel’s credibility has been severely damaged' and that 'we appear to some to be the victim of deliberate deception by Israel.'

"He demanded that Israel withdraw from West Beirut immediately.

"In Tel Aviv, Mr. Draper and the American ambassador, Samuel W. Lewis, met with top Israeli officials.

"Contrary to Prime Minister Begin’s earlier assurances, Defense Minister Sharon said the occupation of West Beirut was justified because there were '2,000 to 3,000 terrorists who remained there.' Mr. Draper disputed this claim; having coordinated the August evacuation, he knew the number was minuscule.

"Mr. Draper said he was horrified to hear that Mr. Sharon was considering allowing the Phalange militia into West Beirut. Even the I.D.F. chief of staff, Rafael Eitan, acknowledged to the Americans that he feared 'a relentless slaughter.'”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917&

Again, the IDF made a mistake in trusting the Lebanese militia.

 

[georgephillip]

The people responsible for the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla were the Phalangists ---the idea that SHARON controlled them is as idiotic as the Iranian claim that Iranians demonstrated in the streets of Teheran because BRITISH PEOPLE told them to
The Phalangists were acting in revenge against the people who had grabbed their daughters ---raped them and beheaded them at DAMOUR That is in sum and substance what happened Sharon was critisized for not STOPPING Lebanese from killing Lebanese Right now YEMENIS ARE KILLING YEMENIS who is being held responsible ?? well---IF THE JEWS HAD STAYED IN YEMEN---MAYBE THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THE MUSLIMS FROM KILLING THE MUSLIMS. The streets of SANAA are running red with blood------I happen to know some jews FROM SANAA want to fly them back there to fix things up?

When did Sharon invade Yemen?

The Phalangists were equipped with Israeli weapons and uniforms and transported to the camps in Israeli vehicles.

"On the evening of Sept. 16, the Israeli cabinet met and was informed that Phalange fighters were entering the Palestinian camps. Deputy Prime Minister David Levy worried aloud: 'I know what the meaning of revenge is for them, what kind of slaughter. Then no one will believe we went in to create order there, and we will bear the blame.' That evening, word of civilian deaths began to filter out to Israeli military officials, politicians and journalists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917&

 

[toomuchtime_]

The people responsible for the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla were the Phalangists ---the idea that SHARON controlled them is as idiotic as the Iranian claim that Iranians demonstrated in the streets of Teheran because BRITISH PEOPLE told them to
The Phalangists were acting in revenge against the people who had grabbed their daughters ---raped them and beheaded them at DAMOUR That is in sum and substance what happened Sharon was critisized for not STOPPING Lebanese from killing Lebanese Right now YEMENIS ARE KILLING YEMENIS who is being held responsible ?? well---IF THE JEWS HAD STAYED IN YEMEN---MAYBE THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THE MUSLIMS FROM KILLING THE MUSLIMS. The streets of SANAA are running red with blood------I happen to know some jews FROM SANAA want to fly them back there to fix things up?

When did Sharon invade Yemen?

The Phalangists were equipped with Israeli weapons and uniforms and transported to the camps in Israeli vehicles.

"On the evening of Sept. 16, the Israeli cabinet met and was informed that Phalange fighters were entering the Palestinian camps. Deputy Prime Minister David Levy worried aloud: 'I know what the meaning of revenge is for them, what kind of slaughter. Then no one will believe we went in to create order there, and we will bear the blame.' That evening, word of civilian deaths began to filter out to Israeli military officials, politicians and journalists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917&

And history has proved Levy right that it was a mistake for the IDF to have trusted the Lebanese militias.