Ryan Tax Plan would have lowered Romney's 2010 taxes to 1%

[DiamondDave]

Yes! Let's tax those who make 7k a year at 10% so Mitt Romney can only pay 1%!

No.. let's tax everyone at the same X% on every dollar earned without exception, deduction, loophole, or exclusion

Capital gains are not considered earned income.

You know.. blind equal treatment...

But nah.. that don't pander to you and those who you wish to align with

What's "equal" about it?

You see me calling to treat capital gains differently?? Nope... nice try

Equal?? Do you know what equality in treatment is?? It certainly is not having many not pay an income tax, it is certainly not having deductions that only some can use... A sales tax, for example, treats every person and every dollar equally, no matter the source and no matter what purchase is being taxed... Our current mega system is not about equality, it is progressive and by definition, unequal treatment...

So instead of looking at how to tweak something to gain an advantage, look into simplifying to eliminate the entire concept of getting an advantage over person X or group Y

And it was wrong in the very first place to have more and more not paying income tax... and the more you have not paying into it, the more screams you will have when they finally do get taxed as they should have been all along

 

[DiamondDave]

Why would that be fair?

Fuck "fair".. that is always subjective.... you have the lefties thinking it is 'fair' to pay nothing.. you have the rich thinking it is fair to deduct everything... you have the investors thinking it is 'fair' to tax certain types of income at a different rate

Sorry, I didn't bring up the issue of "fair", initforme did, and I don't think initforme is a lefty.

Equality in treatment... that is what we do not have and that is what we need.. our current system of unequal treatment is also why we have all the pandering and class warfare that keeps our government growing in size, spending, scope, and power....

What is unequal about the treatment? How does the wealthy's warfare on the poor make government bigger?

Person X pays a 4% rate on all income... Person Y, because they make more, pays 11% on all income.. and person Z pays 22% on all income... it is indeed unequal... if you can't understand the concept of unequal, I would suggest going back and finally finishing grade school

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No.. let's tax everyone at the same X% on every dollar earned without exception, deduction, loophole, or exclusion

Capital gains are not considered earned income.

You know.. blind equal treatment...

But nah.. that don't pander to you and those who you wish to align with

What's "equal" about it?

You see me calling to treat capital gains differently?? Nope... nice try

Until now you haven't addressed the issue, you only referred to earned income.

Equal?? Do you know what equality in treatment is?? It certainly is not having many not pay an income tax, it is certainly not having deductions that only some can use...

Why not?

A sales tax, for example, treats every person and every dollar equally, no matter the source and no matter what purchase is being taxed...

I agree it treats every dollar equally, I don't see how it treats every person equally. Please explain.

Our current mega system is not about equality, it is progressive and by definition, unequal treatment...

No - by definition - unequal rates of taxation. The definition of a progressive system does not make any statements about equality of "treatment".

So instead of looking at how to tweak something to gain an advantage, look into simplifying to eliminate the entire concept of getting an advantage over person X or group Y

Who is person X and group Y?

And it was wrong in the very first place to have more and more not paying income tax...

Why is that wrong? Is it wrong for people who hold no property to not pay property tax? Is it wrong for people who don't buy gasoline to not pay gasoline tax?

and the more you have not paying into it, the more screams you will have when they finally do get taxed as they should have been all along

Should? Should why?

 

[edthecynic]

Answer? Nope. Every person should pay the same rate. That would be fair. Even the wealthy. They are able to draw from it too.

Flat tax is actually a plausible argument. But the voters want the other guy to pay their way.

If by "voters" you mean capital gains tycoons, then you would be Right. If you mean anyone else then you would be quite wrong.

 

[DiamondDave]

How does it treat every person equally?? Are you seriously asking that... It is not looking for excuses, it is not looking for reasons, it is not looking for feelings, it is not looking for any subjective criteria... each person is treated exactly the same no matter the circumstance... no matter the income, number of kids, occupation, total wealth, where they get their income, etc

And if you earn NO income, you pay no tax... but every person who does indeed even earn $1 pays the same tax on that $1 earned as another person pays on dollar #163873 or dollar #22001

As for should?? Because every citizen has a stake in the game for the state of this union.. but not everyone truly puts a stake INTO the game... you tend to look at things much differently when you are also on the line for it... you have huge numbers of people who don't give a fuck because others are paying for the services for them, while many of those are even drawing out of the system itself... why the fuck would they care what the government spends and what they spend it on?? It is no skin off their ass

 

[DiamondDave]

Answer? Nope. Every person should pay the same rate. That would be fair. Even the wealthy. They are able to draw from it too.

Flat tax is actually a plausible argument. But the voters want the other guy to pay their way.

If by "voters" you mean capital gains tycoons, then you would be Right. If you mean anyone else then you would be quite wrong.

You forgot to mention all the other entitlement junkies... welfare recipients being just 1 example

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

How does it treat every person equally?? Are you seriously asking that... It is not looking for excuses, it is not looking for reasons, it is not looking for feelings, it is not looking for any subjective criteria... each person is treated exactly the same no matter the circumstance... no matter the income, number of kids, occupation, total wealth, where they get their income, etc

Yeah but some people will still pay more in taxes than others. That's equal? Wouldn't "equal" mean we all pay the same dollar amount per year?

And if you earn NO income, you pay no tax... but every person who does indeed even earn $1 pays the same tax on that $1 earned as another person pays on dollar #163873 or dollar #22001

As for should?? Because every citizen has a stake in the game for the state of this union.. but not everyone truly puts a stake INTO the game... you tend to look at things much differently when you are also on the line for it... you have huge numbers of people who don't give a fuck because others are paying for the services for them, while many of those are even drawing out of the system itself... why the fuck would they care what the government spends and what they spend it on?? It is no skin off their ass

What do you mean "huge numbers"? Most of the poor work for a living. I'm failing to see how they fail to contribute. They in fact provide an asset the wealthy absolutely need to stay wealthy - cheap labor.

 

[DiamondDave]

How does it treat every person equally?? Are you seriously asking that... It is not looking for excuses, it is not looking for reasons, it is not looking for feelings, it is not looking for any subjective criteria... each person is treated exactly the same no matter the circumstance... no matter the income, number of kids, occupation, total wealth, where they get their income, etc

Yeah but some people will still pay more in taxes than others. That's equal? Wouldn't "equal" mean we all pay the same dollar amount per year?

And if you earn NO income, you pay no tax... but every person who does indeed even earn $1 pays the same tax on that $1 earned as another person pays on dollar #163873 or dollar #22001

As for should?? Because every citizen has a stake in the game for the state of this union.. but not everyone truly puts a stake INTO the game... you tend to look at things much differently when you are also on the line for it... you have huge numbers of people who don't give a fuck because others are paying for the services for them, while many of those are even drawing out of the system itself... why the fuck would they care what the government spends and what they spend it on?? It is no skin off their ass

What do you mean "huge numbers"? Most of the poor work for a living. I'm failing to see how they fail to contribute. They in fact provide an asset the wealthy absolutely need to stay wealthy - cheap labor.

EQUAL in treatment in all aspects... even a sales tax is not equal in outcome... we don't guarantee outcome... oh.. and remember it is the income that is taxed, and that is based on the dollar... no matter the source, no matter the recipient

you can contribute to many things.. but even your working poor are not contributing to the federal income tax... that is the non-contribution we are talking about... not whether they contribute effort or spend money or whatever else

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

How does it treat every person equally?? Are you seriously asking that... It is not looking for excuses, it is not looking for reasons, it is not looking for feelings, it is not looking for any subjective criteria... each person is treated exactly the same no matter the circumstance... no matter the income, number of kids, occupation, total wealth, where they get their income, etc

Yeah but some people will still pay more in taxes than others. That's equal? Wouldn't "equal" mean we all pay the same dollar amount per year?

And if you earn NO income, you pay no tax... but every person who does indeed even earn $1 pays the same tax on that $1 earned as another person pays on dollar #163873 or dollar #22001

As for should?? Because every citizen has a stake in the game for the state of this union.. but not everyone truly puts a stake INTO the game... you tend to look at things much differently when you are also on the line for it... you have huge numbers of people who don't give a fuck because others are paying for the services for them, while many of those are even drawing out of the system itself... why the fuck would they care what the government spends and what they spend it on?? It is no skin off their ass

What do you mean "huge numbers"? Most of the poor work for a living. I'm failing to see how they fail to contribute. They in fact provide an asset the wealthy absolutely need to stay wealthy - cheap labor.

EQUAL in treatment in all aspects... even a sales tax is not equal in outcome... we don't guarantee outcome... oh.. and remember it is the income that is taxed, and that is based on the dollar... no matter the source, no matter the recipient

Does the Constitution require we treat all people equally or all dollars equally?

you can contribute to many things.. but even your working poor are not contributing to the federal income tax... that is the non-contribution we are talking about... not whether they contribute effort or spend money or whatever else

So only people who pay federal income tax "... has a stake in the game for the state of this union" ?

 

[miami_thomas]

The Ryan plan would not eliminate capital gains taxes, or eliminate any taxes at all. Tax rates would be cut across the board.

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The Ryan plan would not eliminate capital gains taxes, or eliminate any taxes at all. Tax rates would be cut across the board.

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

How come only the poor should pay taxes?

 

[miami_thomas]

How does it treat every person equally?? Are you seriously asking that... It is not looking for excuses, it is not looking for reasons, it is not looking for feelings, it is not looking for any subjective criteria... each person is treated exactly the same no matter the circumstance... no matter the income, number of kids, occupation, total wealth, where they get their income, etc

Yeah but some people will still pay more in taxes than others. That's equal? Wouldn't "equal" mean we all pay the same dollar amount per year?

And if you earn NO income, you pay no tax... but every person who does indeed even earn $1 pays the same tax on that $1 earned as another person pays on dollar #163873 or dollar #22001

As for should?? Because every citizen has a stake in the game for the state of this union.. but not everyone truly puts a stake INTO the game... you tend to look at things much differently when you are also on the line for it... you have huge numbers of people who don't give a fuck because others are paying for the services for them, while many of those are even drawing out of the system itself... why the fuck would they care what the government spends and what they spend it on?? It is no skin off their ass

What do you mean "huge numbers"? Most of the poor work for a living. I'm failing to see how they fail to contribute. They in fact provide an asset the wealthy absolutely need to stay wealthy - cheap labor.

The poor in this country live the lives of upper middle class in other countries. We have left from providing someone the things they need to survive and moved into providing someone a better life. We are trying to provide them with equality.

 

[Vast LWC]

Your wealth envy is showing.


LOL

Yes, obviously, feeling that billionaires should in fact pay some income tax on their income is "wealth envy".

 

[miami_thomas]

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

How come only the poor should pay taxes?

The poor shouldn't be paying any taxes. If they are poor, then they have no money to begin with. Again depends on what you consider poor. Are we talking US poor or rest of the world poor?

 

[miami_thomas]

Your wealth envy is showing.


LOL

Yes, obviously, feeling that billionaires should in fact pay some income tax on their income is "wealth envy".

Dividends are not income in fact it is a second tax on what was already taxed to begin with. The income in the corporations is taxed then they turn around and tax those profits when given to the owners.

 

[edthecynic]

The Ryan plan would not eliminate capital gains taxes, or eliminate any taxes at all. Tax rates would be cut across the board.

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

well then let's just turn that around and see just how fair you think it is. Let's eliminate taxes on wages, it's their money not yours, and only tax capital gains, dividends, interest and inheritance. Still sound good????

 

[miami_thomas]

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

well then let's just turn that around and see just how fair you think it is. Let's eliminate taxes on wages, it's their money not yours, and only tax capital gains, dividends, interest and inheritance. Still sound good????

Better yet let's just eliminate all taxes except sales tax.

 

[Full-Auto]

CON$ervoFascists know Lyin' Ryan's tax "reform"/tax cut for the capital gains tycoons is so extreme they HAVE to lie about it. Lyin' Ryan cuts capital gains, dividends, interest and the inheritance tax for multi-millionaires to ZERO!!!!!

From Lyin' Ryan's own website:

Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

How come only the poor should pay taxes?

Congratulations.............


A leap in idiocy.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Sounds good. It is their money not your money.

well then let's just turn that around and see just how fair you think it is. Let's eliminate taxes on wages, it's their money not yours, and only tax capital gains, dividends, interest and inheritance. Still sound good????

Better yet let's just eliminate all taxes except sales tax.

The wealthy should not have to pay sales tax.

 

[Vast LWC]

The Ryan plan would not eliminate capital gains taxes, or eliminate any taxes at all. Tax rates would be cut across the board.

Incorrect:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h4529/show

This is comprehensive legislation containing a wide range of Republican policy priorities. It would reform the heath care system by offering tax credits for individuals buying insurance, allowing insurers to sell across state lines, creating state-based exchanges, eliminating the State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP) and turning Medicare into a voucher program for purchasing private insurance. It would also essentially privatize Social Security.

Additionally, the bill would eliminate corporate income taxes, eliminate all taxes on capital gains, do away with the Alternative Minimum Tax altogether, and create a new income tax rate with only two brackets. Individuals earning above $50,000 annually would pay 250% more in taxes than those making less than $50,000. All unspent stimulus money from the passage of H.R.1 would be rescinded, and it includes a spending freeze similar to what President Obama has proposed.

So, in other words, Ryan's plan would eliminate taxes altogether for the richest among us, people like Mitt Romney, who make their money primarily from capital gains.

And, to pay for it, he'd stop paying for health care for children.