Russia and France Are Close to Deal on Mistral Warships

[ESay]

But here we have been discussing the consequences of the contract cancellation. Not the reasons. And the consequences for France - lack of reliability, for Russia - only getting money back. And that's it.

But above you wrote that France was in a worse condition than Russia and as an example you mentioned the lack of reliability. When I wrote my answer, I meant that the reliability of Russia had nosedived, and therefore France wasn’t in a worse condition considering this.

And now about France’s reliability. I don’t think that it will suffer much, because the cancellation will occur not due to technical failure or corruption case or something like that, but due to unwillingness to deliver military hardware to a potential enemy. It was Russia’s choice to become an enemy to the West (I know you will mention NATO’s widening eastward as proof of the opposite), so it is absolutely logical that the West is curtailing its cooperation with Russia, especially military cooperation.

 

[Igrok_]

But here we have been discussing the consequences of the contract cancellation. Not the reasons. And the consequences for France - lack of reliability, for Russia - only getting money back. And that's it.

But above you wrote that France was in a worse condition than Russia and as an example you mentioned the lack of reliability. When I wrote my answer, I meant that the reliability of Russia had nosedived, and therefore France wasn’t in a worse condition considering this.

And now about France’s reliability. I don’t think that it will suffer much, because the cancellation will occur not due to technical failure or corruption case or something like that, but due to unwillingness to deliver military hardware to a potential enemy. It was Russia’s choice to become an enemy to the West (I know you will mention NATO’s widening eastward as proof of the opposite), so it is absolutely logical that the West is curtailing its cooperation with Russia, especially military cooperation.

Yes, I mention that:

And France has bounded the geography of its war supplies by allies of the NATO. That is the problem for them. Now every country which was willing to have a contract with France will think whether or not France will deliver the weapon to it in case of changes in polical life.

PS Are you from Russia? You mentioned links to russan sources earlier.

 

[ESay]

Yes, I mention that:


And France has bounded the geography of its war supplies by allies of the NATO. That is the problem for them. Now every country which was willing to have a contract with France will think whether or not France will deliver the weapon to it in case of changes in polical life.

PS Are you from Russia? You mentioned links to russan sources earlier.

Your map is a little outdated and incorrect. Could you explain why Kazakhstan is marked with the NATO’s sign? Have it ever been a member of NATO or had a NATO’s military base? Also, as far as I know, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan have greatly reduced NATO’s presence on their territories. Moreover, there has never been American or NATO’s military bases per se, but there were logistical hubs there like that one which was set to be placed in Ulyanovsk.

About the NATO’s widening. I completely agree with Stoltenberg who once said that it wasn’t NATO widening eastward, but it was the countries of Eastern Europe joining the alliance. The course to EU and NATO chosen by the bulk of East European countries is their own choice toward their prosperous future (well, at least they think so). And why have they chosen that course? The answer is very simple – because Russia wasn’t and isn’t able to offer them something better. The Western Europe sets an example of wealth society and fair justice (well, in comparison with their own society and justice), but what Russia can offer to them instead? Total corruption and lawlessness? And their longing for the West will last as long as Russia offers nothing attractive to them. This is an objective fact.


You call those things Russia is now doing simply change in political life?

I am from Ukraine.

 

[Igrok_]

Yes, I mention that:


And France has bounded the geography of its war supplies by allies of the NATO. That is the problem for them. Now every country which was willing to have a contract with France will think whether or not France will deliver the weapon to it in case of changes in polical life.

PS Are you from Russia? You mentioned links to russan sources earlier.

Your map is a little outdated and incorrect. Could you explain why Kazakhstan is marked with the NATO’s sign? Have it ever been a member of NATO or had a NATO’s military base? Also, as far as I know, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan have greatly reduced NATO’s presence on their territories. Moreover, there has never been American or NATO’s military bases per se, but there were logistical hubs there like that one which was set to be placed in Ulyanovsk.

About the NATO’s widening. I completely agree with Stoltenberg who once said that it wasn’t NATO widening eastward, but it was the countries of Eastern Europe joining the alliance. The course to EU and NATO chosen by the bulk of East European countries is their own choice toward their prosperous future (well, at least they think so). And why have they chosen that course? The answer is very simple – because Russia wasn’t and isn’t able to offer them something better. The Western Europe sets an example of wealth society and fair justice (well, in comparison with their own society and justice), but what Russia can offer to them instead? Total corruption and lawlessness? And their longing for the West will last as long as Russia offers nothing attractive to them. This is an objective fact.


You call those things Russia is now doing simply change in political life?

I am from Ukraine.

So, these countries simply chose to be the enemies of Russia. It is their choice. So did Ukraine. It doesn't matter what was their reasons to do that - that is their problems. For Russia - once they made such choice - they are enemies. And making such decision - by joining to Russia's enemy block - they understood that they were becoming war enemies to Russia.
And how should Russia react? Obviously by taking an aggressive actions in response.

Finland is wise example how a country could be in western area but not provoke Russia by participating in war alliances.

 

[ESay]

And how should Russia react? Obviously by taking an aggressive actions in response.

Yeah, right. Your rulers are thinking the same. But by doing this, Russia will get only enemies rather than allies. How should Russia react? I will tell you. She must change herself; she must become attractive to other countries; she must fight against corruption and lawlessness rather than look for enemies all around the globe and blame others for her setbacks. But, unfortunately, these will never happen.

 

[Igrok_]

And how should Russia react? Obviously by taking an aggressive actions in response.

Yeah, right. Your rulers are thinking the same. But by doing this, Russia will get only enemies rather than allies. How should Russia react? I will tell you. She must change herself; she must become attractive to other countries; she must fight against corruption and lawlessness rather than look for enemies all around the globe and blame others for her setbacks. But, unfortunately, these will never happen.

Of course this will never happen, cause Russia deals in only one way - way of own interests. What is the point of being attractive to others? The main thing is acting in right way, others should think about themselves.

 

[ESay]

Of course this will never happen, cause Russia deals in only one way - way of own interests.

You think that total corruption is one of the best Russia’s interests? Okay, I won’t argue with that.

What is the point of being attractive to others?

There is no point at all. But in this case you shouldn’t blame others for choosing to be enemies of Russia and shouldn’t complain about Russia being surrounded by enemies.

The main thing is acting in right way, others should think about themselves.

You can act as you wish. Others will counter-act. Let’s see who will win.

 

[Igrok_]

You think that total corruption is one of the best Russia’s interests? Okay, I won’t argue with that.

Do you think that a gay marriages, pedophilia and nazism are Ukranian best interests? Okay, i won't argue with this.

There is no point at all. But in this case you shouldn’t blame others for choosing to be enemies of Russia and shouldn’t complain about Russia being surrounded by enemies.

I don't blame anyone. All the time I only hear that somebody is trying to blame Russia for some reasons.

You can act as you wish. Others will counter-act. Let’s see who will win.

Of course.

 

[ESay]

Do you think that a gay marriages, pedophilia and nazism are Ukranian best interests? Okay, i won't argue with this.

Nice try. I won’t argue with this either, but I will put a couple of words.
About gay marriages. I also think that it is rather doubtful decision.
About paedophilia and Nazism. Do you want me to believe that there are no such things in Russia? Yeah, try to tell that to somebody else.

I don't blame anyone. All the time I only hear that somebody is trying to blame Russia for some reasons.

Can you give some examples of such reasons?

 

[ESay]

Some additional information about the theme.

France has offered to Russia its proposals for the cancellation of the contract. According to them, Russia is due to receive nearly 785 million euros. The money can be received only after the Russian government issues a written permission for selling the ships to any country without any restrictions.

Moscow doesn’t agree with this approach. It claims that the sum of expenditure and losses reaches 1.163 billion euros and it has no intention to give such permission until it has received the money.

The sum offered by France has been derived from the acceptance certificate. But Russia is intended to demand the reimbursement of costs spent on training its sailors, the creation of infrastructure for the ships in Vladivostok, and work on the creation of helicopters Ka-52K being developed specifically for the Mistrals.

Also, France wants to share with Russia costs of possible dismantling of the ships and removing Russian equipment from them. Russia doesn’t agree to share these costs.

The France side cites the provisions of the contract which contain possibility of cancellation due to force majeure.

Also, possibility exists that the dispute will be resolved in accord with the so-called Napoleonic Code. In this case the French side will have to pay the sum demanded by Russia even without explanation where the sum came from.

The French side has a right to declare force majeure until the 25-th of May.

click (in Russian)

 

[Stratford57]

And how should Russia react? Obviously by taking an aggressive actions in response.

Yeah, right. Your rulers are thinking the same. But by doing this, Russia will get only enemies rather than allies. How should Russia react? I will tell you. She must change herself; she must become attractive to other countries; she must fight against corruption and lawlessness rather than look for enemies all around the globe and blame others for her setbacks. But, unfortunately, these will never happen.

Ha-ha-ha... I can't believe a person from Ukraine is giving Russia such a "good" advise. Everything you've just mentioned should be applied to Ukraine to begin with and only after that and in case of success Russia may want to listen to you, умник....

 

[ESay]

Ha-ha-ha... I can't believe a person from Ukraine is giving Russia such a "good" advise. Everything you've just mentioned should be applied to Ukraine to begin with and only after that and in case of success Russia may want to listen to you, умник....

Well, if Russia wants to join Ukraine to Russian-led union, then it is Russia has to be an exemplar, hasn’t it? Otherwise, what is a reason for Ukraine to join such a union if the situation in Russia isn’t any better than in Ukraine?

Russia may want to listen to me? I needn’t it. I don’t care about Russia and about you as Russian citizens. You can have any government you want and you can do with that government everything you want, but within your own territory.

 

[Stratford57]

Ha-ha-ha... I can't believe a person from Ukraine is giving Russia such a "good" advise. Everything you've just mentioned should be applied to Ukraine to begin with and only after that and in case of success Russia may want to listen to you, умник....

Well, if Russia wants to join Ukraine to Russian-led union, then it is Russia has to be an exemplar, hasn’t it? Otherwise, what is a reason for Ukraine to join such a union if the situation in Russia isn’t any better than in Ukraine?

Russia may want to listen to me? I needn’t it. I don’t care about Russia and about you as Russian citizens. You can have any government you want and you can do with that government everything you want, but within your own territory.

If Ukraine wants to survive it has to stay with Russia no matter you like it or not. Russia is family for Ukraine (Kiev has been called "mother of Russian cities" for centuries. And all those "new friends" from Europe and from overseas are only Using Ukraine and its citizens for their own purposes, which smell pretty bad. Thanks God, many Ukrainian citizens start understanding that. As for me I am not a Russian citizen, unfortunately... Russia will be ok with Ukraine or without it, but Ukraine won't.

 

[ESay]

If Ukraine wants to survive it has to stay with Russia no matter you like it or not.

Well, I think that if Ukraine wants to survive it has to change itself; its citizens (including myself, of course) have to change themselves. And only then it matters who Ukraine will be with.

And all those "new friends" from Europe and from overseas are only Using Ukraine and its citizens for their own purposes, which smell pretty bad.

Of course, they use Ukraine in their purposes, as do our Russian friends. Or you want me to believe that the attempt to retain Ukraine in Russia’s sphere of influence is only based on selfless feelings?

As for me I am not a Russian citizen, unfortunately...

Let me guess - you are from either Germany or Israel?

 

[Stratford57]

Unfortunately I am from Ukraine, провидец

 

[ESay]

Unfortunately I am from Ukraine, провидец

Oops. Magnetic storms should be blamed for it. Definitely!

 

[Quentin111]

Well, Russia refused the deal worth 1.2 billion euros for the supply of "Mistrals".

 

[montelatici]

Well, a coup for the U.S. French warship building will take a hit and will have problems selling to other countries. Good move for us. Unfortunately, Russia has most of the plans and production techniques to build their own now.

 

[Stratford57]

QUOTE="montelatici, post: 11475444, member: 47237"]Well, a coup for the U.S. French warship building will take a hit and will have problems selling to other countries. Good move for us. Unfortunately, Russia has most of the plans and production techniques to build their own now.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think, it would be better for USA and the whole world if USA stopped putting their nose into business between other countries. USA should mind their own problems: huge external debt, illegals, black violence and Obama's numerous faults? Look, what is going on now in the countries, where USA interfered (Iraq, Libya, Syria Ukraine etc.): chaos, new born terror organizations, death and grief. Americans should force their rulers to stop nation building for the sake of the whole world including USA.

By the way Russia has already shown: it gonna survive regardless of foreign countries' stupid and very expensive attempts to harm it.

People, stop wasting your time and money, trying to harm Russia, concentrate on solving your own problems....

 

[Camp]

QUOTE="montelatici, post: 11475444, member: 47237"]Well, a coup for the U.S. French warship building will take a hit and will have problems selling to other countries. Good move for us. Unfortunately, Russia has most of the plans and production techniques to build their own now.

Don't you think, it would be better for USA and the whole world if USA stopped putting their nose into business between other countries. USA should mind their own problems: huge external debt, illegals, black violence and Obama's numerous faults? Look, what is going on now in the countries, where USA interfered (Iraq, Libya, Syria Ukraine etc.): chaos, new born terror organizations, death and grief. Americans should force their rulers to stop nation building for the sake of the whole world including USA.

By the way Russia has already shown: it gonna survive regardless of foreign countries' stupid and very expensive attempts to harm it.

People, stop wasting your time and money, trying to harm Russia, concentrate on solving your own problems....[/QUOTE]

You should be giving your advice to Russia.