Rubio vs Obama and natural born citizenship?

[Liability]

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But even if his parents were not yet American citizens, if Sen. Rubio was BORN here, he IS an American citizen.

Yes a citizen, but not a Constitutional Article 2 Section 1 natural born Citizen. He is basically a anchor baby if both parents weren't naturalized before he was born.

Your would be distinction is baseless.

He is and always was a natural born U.S. citizen.

The citizenship of parents is irrelevant if a child (other than one born to diplomats) is BORN on U.S. soil.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I read that Rubio was born in Miami to parents who were both Cuban citizens at the time of his birth. I have also read that it doesn't matter if Obama was born in Hawaii or not because according to the Constitution's definition, his father wasn't a citizen of the USA so Obama can't be a natural born citizen. The other arguments I have read, have people saying that because Obama's mother was a citizen and he was born here, he is a natural born citizen. So if either argument rings true. There is no possible way Rubio can be a natural born citizen if one of your parents has to be a citizen. Right?

You misread or misunderstood.

IF the President was born in Hawaii (which I assume is true), then under the law he is a U.S. citizen. Period.

IF he had been born in Kenya, however, with only one parent being a U.S. citizen at that time, but the other parent (the dad) being a citizen OF Kenya, then it would not be clear that the President would be a NATURAL BORN Citizen of the United States.

If Mr. Rubio was born IN the United States, then he IS a natural born citizen. Period.

As I understand it, the problem if Mr. Obama was born in Kenya is that the law ALSO requires that your US-citizen parent must have lived in the United States within a certain amount of time prior to your birth - barring members of the military, I believe - and there is some doubt as to how recently Mr. Obama's mother had done so.

As for Mr. Rubio . . . well, the entire "anchor baby" problem is based on the fact that being born in the US, regardless of your parents' citizenship, automatically conveys citizenship under our current laws. So yes, Mr. Rubio would be a natural-born citizen, whether his parents were citizens or not.

 

[Liability]

I read that Rubio was born in Miami to parents who were both Cuban citizens at the time of his birth. I have also read that it doesn't matter if Obama was born in Hawaii or not because according to the Constitution's definition, his father wasn't a citizen of the USA so Obama can't be a natural born citizen. The other arguments I have read, have people saying that because Obama's mother was a citizen and he was born here, he is a natural born citizen. So if either argument rings true. There is no possible way Rubio can be a natural born citizen if one of your parents has to be a citizen. Right?

You misread or misunderstood.

IF the President was born in Hawaii (which I assume is true), then under the law he is a U.S. citizen. Period.

IF he had been born in Kenya, however, with only one parent being a U.S. citizen at that time, but the other parent (the dad) being a citizen OF Kenya, then it would not be clear that the President would be a NATURAL BORN Citizen of the United States.

If Mr. Rubio was born IN the United States, then he IS a natural born citizen. Period.

As I understand it, the problem if Mr. Obama was born in Kenya is that the law ALSO requires that your US-citizen parent must have lived in the United States within a certain amount of time prior to your birth - barring members of the military, I believe - and there is some doubt as to how recently Mr. Obama's mother had done so.

There is a rule for how long she had to live here, but I think she qualified having been a U.S. citizen her entire life. But it hardly matters since the place of the President's birth DOES appear to have been Hawaii.

As for Mr. Rubio . . . well, the entire "anchor baby" problem is based on the fact that being born in the US, regardless of your parents' citizenship, automatically conveys citizenship under our current laws. So yes, Mr. Rubio would be a natural-born citizen, whether his parents were citizens or not.

Yep.

I have yet to see any "law" other than the current law. We call it "anchor baby," but nobody can point to any other interpretation of natural born citizen.

 

[Fred_Garvin]

There is no legal designation 'Anchor Baby.' He is a natural born US citizen.

No he is not a Constitutional natural born Citizen. He is most likely a statute 14th Amendment Citizen.

There is no valid basis to say that a person born here is not a natural born citizen (excepting of course the children of those born to diplomats).

Sorry but that is furthest from the truth. Again, John Bingham the architect of the 14th amendment stated this:

“Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

If Rubio's parents were not naturalized before he was born then his parents held no allegiance to the U.S.. In other words, he wasn't born with sole allegiance to the U.S.. A natural born Citizen is a higher subset of a Citizen. Being born to Two U.S. established Citizens ensures born allegiance to the U.S. That is why the founders added natural born Citizen to the presidential clause as a national security blanket. Here. Listen to this Constitutional scholar and law professor explain why the founders wanted a president born with sole allegiance to the U.S. Please listen to this brief statement:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esiZZ-1R7e8]Natural Born Citizen? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cecilie1200]

I read that Rubio was born in Miami to parents who were both Cuban citizens at the time of his birth. I have also read that it doesn't matter if Obama was born in Hawaii or not because according to the Constitution's definition, his father wasn't a citizen of the USA so Obama can't be a natural born citizen. The other arguments I have read, have people saying that because Obama's mother was a citizen and he was born here, he is a natural born citizen. So if either argument rings true. There is no possible way Rubio can be a natural born citizen if one of your parents has to be a citizen. Right?

The Constitution does not define the phrase natural-born citizen so, in reality, there is no true answer to your question in the eyes of our federal government.

So, my answer to your question is that Rubio and Obama could be both considered natural born citizens in my opinion based off the opinions made by judges in other cases where this type of citizenship was questioned.

Untrue. The Constitution gives Congress the power to set laws concerning immigration and naturalization, and that includes passing laws which define what does and does not make one a citizen. Such laws are on the books, and therefore, the federal government DOES, indeed, have an answer for "what is a natural born citizen?"

 

[Unkotare]

Freddy, you are making a monumental fool of yourself. The law is clear and long-established. You sound like a freakin' mental case.

Liability already explained to you what the phrase "allegiance to any foreign sovereignty" means in context.

There is no "higher subset of citizen." There are naturalized citizens and natural born citizens. As I pointed out for you before, Rubio would be an example of a natural born citizen.

 

[Unkotare]

The Constitution gives Congress the power to set laws concerning immigration and naturalization, and that includes passing laws which define what does and does not make one a citizen. Such laws are on the books, and therefore, the federal government DOES, indeed, have an answer for "what is a natural born citizen?"

That answer is in Title 8 of the US Code. It is very clear.

 

[Fred_Garvin]

I haven't "disagreed" with anything. You just don't know what you are trying to talk about.


You didn't read the code, did you? Do you not care how foolish you look, or are you really this deluded?

That website is misleading. Show me in the 14th Amendment's TEXT where the specific term 'natural born Citizen' is mentioned like it is mentioned specifically in Article 2 Section 1, the presidential clause.

Holy crap you're stupid. "Citizens of the United States at birth" means 'natural born citizen,' you idiot.

No I am not a idiot and you being unable to locate the specific term 'natural born Citizen' within the text of the 14th Amendment and post it confirms that I am right. You can't do it plain and simple.

Here is another quote from John Bingham defining natural born Citizen. (not Citizen)

“All from other lands, who by the terms of [congressional] laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; [[[all other persons born within the Republic, of (parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty), are natural born citizens]]]]. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians.” (Cong. Globe, 37th, 2nd Sess., 1639 (1862))


If Rubio's parents weren't naturalized before he was born then he is in a statutory citizen, not a natural born Citizen. A statutory citizen (bestowed by man's pen) can never be a "natural born" citizen (bestowed by God/nature). Obama's father also owed allegiance to a foreign sovereignty, the United Kingdom making Obama Jr a dual citizen at birth with split allegiances.

 

[Unkotare]

That website is misleading. Show me in the 14th Amendment's TEXT where the specific term 'natural born Citizen' is mentioned like it is mentioned specifically in Article 2 Section 1, the presidential clause.

Holy crap you're stupid. "Citizens of the United States at birth" means 'natural born citizen,' you idiot.

No I am not a idiot and you being unable to locate the specific term 'natural born Citizen' within the text of the 14th Amendment and post it confirms that I am right.

A person born in the United States IS a natural born citizen, you fucking idiot. Instead of looking for an exact collection of letters you might try learning what words actually mean.

 

[Fred_Garvin]

Freddy, you are making a monumental fool of yourself. The law is clear and long-established. You sound like a freakin' mental case.

Liability already explained to you what the phrase "allegiance to any foreign sovereignty" means in context.

There is no "higher subset of citizen." There are naturalized citizens and natural born citizens. As I pointed out for you before, Rubio would be an example of a natural born citizen.

The presidential clause with the specific term 'natural born Citizen' stands apart from the 14th Amendment. Otherwise Article 2 Section 1 would have been amended to the 14th Amendment but it wasn't. There was a reason why the founders only wanted a natural born Citizen to hold the highest office in America and that is they wanted a person born with sole allegiance to the U.S.. How do you get sole allegiance? Being born to two U.S. citizen parents as Bingham states. Although many politically correct Americans generally believe that all persons born in the United States (other than children of foreign diplomats and alien enemies) are "natural born citizens", regardless of their parents' citizenship, that this belief is widely held, the Supreme Court has never accepted it.

 

[Unkotare]

If Rubio's parents weren't naturalized before he was born then he is in a statutory citizen, not a natural born Citizen.

No such distinction exists, you fucking idiot. How many times must you be told?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Freddy, you are making a monumental fool of yourself. The law is clear and long-established. You sound like a freakin' mental case.

Liability already explained to you what the phrase "allegiance to any foreign sovereignty" means in context.

There is no "higher subset of citizen." There are naturalized citizens and natural born citizens. As I pointed out for you before, Rubio would be an example of a natural born citizen.

The presidential clause with the specific term 'natural born Citizen' stands apart from the 14th Amendment. Otherwise Article 2 Section 1 would have been amended to the 14th Amendment but it wasn't. There was a reason why the founders only wanted a natural born Citizen to hold the highest office in America and that is they wanted a person born with sole allegiance to the U.S.. How do you get sole allegiance? Being born to two U.S. citizen parents as Bingham states. Although many politically correct Americans generally believe that all persons born in the United States (other than children of foreign diplomats and alien enemies) are "natural born citizens", regardless of their parents' citizenship, that this belief is widely held, the Supreme Court has never accepted it.

Not interesting and worthless.

 

[Unkotare]

Although many politically correct Americans generally believe that all persons born in the United States (other than children of foreign diplomats and alien enemies) are "natural born citizens", regardless of their parents' citizenship, that this belief is widely held, the Supreme Court has never accepted it.

It has nothing to do with being "politically correct" (?). Many people believe it because it is the law. This law has been pointed out to you several times. You are just being a crazy, stupid motherfucker at this point.

 

[regent]

Until the Congress passes a law that defines exactly how a candidate meets the requirements for the presidency, or the Supreme Court rules on a law already on the books, this problem will probably come up again. There is a law buried in the House, HR 1503, at the present time but the Republican House seems reluctant to even let it on the floor, so the controversy continues.

 

[Fred_Garvin]

Holy crap you're stupid. "Citizens of the United States at birth" means 'natural born citizen,' you idiot.

No I am not a idiot and you being unable to locate the specific term 'natural born Citizen' within the text of the 14th Amendment and post it confirms that I am right.

A person born in the United States IS a natural born citizen:

Nope. You are highly wrong as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates. The term "natural born citizen" does not appear in any existing Federal statute. The only place it appears is specifically Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution strictly for the presidency. It does not appear in the 14th Amendment at all and there is a reason for that.

 

[Unkotare]

Until the Congress passes a law that defines exactly how a candidate meets the requirements for the presidency.

There already is one.


Constitutional Topic: Citizenship - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[Fred_Garvin]

Although many politically correct Americans generally believe that all persons born in the United States (other than children of foreign diplomats and alien enemies) are "natural born citizens", regardless of their parents' citizenship, that this belief is widely held, the Supreme Court has never accepted it.

It has nothing to do with being "politically correct" (?). Many people believe it because it is the law. This law has been pointed out to you several times. You are just being a crazy, stupid motherfucker at this point.

The term "natural born citizen" does not appear in any existing Federal statute

 

[Unkotare]

No I am not a idiot and you being unable to locate the specific term 'natural born Citizen' within the text of the 14th Amendment and post it confirms that I am right.

A person born in the United States IS a natural born citizen:

Nope. You are highly wrong as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates. The term "natural born citizen" does not appear in any existing Federal statute. The only place it appears is specifically Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution strictly for the presidency. It does not appear in the 14th Amendment at all and there is a reason for that.

You are wrong, psycho. It has all been explained to you many times now. Go see your shrink.

 

[Unkotare]

Although many politically correct Americans generally believe that all persons born in the United States (other than children of foreign diplomats and alien enemies) are "natural born citizens", regardless of their parents' citizenship, that this belief is widely held, the Supreme Court has never accepted it.

It has nothing to do with being "politically correct" (?). Many people believe it because it is the law. This law has been pointed out to you several times. You are just being a crazy, stupid motherfucker at this point.

The term "natural born citizen" does not appear in any existing Federal statute

*sigh*

"citizens of the United States at birth" means 'natural born citizen,' you idiot.

 

[whitehall]

I'm sick of European posters meddling in this forum with their skewed opinions and often bad spelling. The United States Constitution mandates that a president be born in the United States. John McCain was granted a waver because he was born in the Canal Zone where his father was stationed in the Navy. Obama has yet to prove he complies with the Constitution. Did he lie to his diary when Harvard raved about the fact that he was born in Indonesia? Did his mother give birth in the jungle rather than a hospital in Hawaii? Why not do the right thing and have document examiners peruse the birth certificate?