Root Cause of US Education System Failure

What are the "root causes" for the US education system failure?

  • Its entirely the teacher's fault

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Its the teachers unions and the liberal attitudes i.e. "social promotion", etc.

    Votes: 16 44.4%
  • Its the total lack of discipline, bring back old style discipline

    Votes: 10 27.8%
  • The teachers fear the kids, the kids have guns now...seriously...real guns

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • Its society, too much TV, to many distractions like texting, TV, radio, video games, etc

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • Its the parents' fault, they are simply too busy to keep the kids focused on their studies

    Votes: 16 44.4%
  • its the politicians' fault, their tax policies penalize parents and reward welfare queens

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • politicians' fault allowing illegals in i.e. a demographics failure, growing the wrong segments

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • The successful focus on themselves instead of creating families...not producing offspring

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • Its actually the combination of all of the above

    Votes: 10 27.8%

  • Total voters
    36
I do computer forensics for a job and while its also interesting you need a lot of training and computer understanding. I wish students who get more computer training b/c our field is begging for competent people.

Have you compared what you're paid, to what you'd get paid training?

Would YOU like to train people?
 
government and unions are the problem. if you want your kid educated you either need the best private schools, but evne those are straddled by wasting time in order to meet state standards. if you can't home school then you need to spend an extra hour or two a day teaching your kid beyond what they learn in school.

you also need to make them read real books and not the watered down crap they push today. go on amazon and find the orginal versions not the "abridged, PC, don't offend anyone" crap. They also need to read daily

Oh yea. Home school will work. "Meeting standards" is "bad".

it sure will. american standards are a joke. my stepson attends regular school, but in math and science we work with him extra to teach him to india's and other international standards. america's are a joke.

we are considering homeschool any future kids. at least until 3rd or 4th grade. he/she would be equivalent to 8th graders in america academically if we did this.

You can't possibly leave that there. You must post a link.
 
I do computer forensics for a job and while its also interesting you need a lot of training and computer understanding. I wish students who get more computer training b/c our field is begging for competent people.

Have you compared what you're paid, to what you'd get paid training?

Would YOU like to train people?

we do training.... in general, trainers get paid well for high skill training, they also get to travel around the country/world on $70-$100/day per diems. training is way less stressful than actually do investigations which is why a lot of people do it.

if you are talking about do it as a teacher then obviously its way less, esp in high school, if you do it in college you have a chance to make decent $ if you do research as well
 
The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

Oh, that's funny. Especially considering how many Republicans say:

"I made my money the old-fashioned way, I inherited it."
 
The main reason for the failure of the school system?

Most parents only take some interest in their childrens extra curricular school activites and none in the education part.
 
K-3 should focus on reading, reading, reading, integrating science, social studies into the reading programs. By the end of 3rd grade every child should know all forms of addition and subtract; multiplication and division facts through 12 X 12; fractions a whole, 1/2, 1/4; money; time. Writing should be integrated throughout the curriculum, with emphasis on sentence, paragraph, and coherency emphasized. Spelling should be graded on written assignments and the 'words' should come from reading, science, and social studies.

They should have physical exercise for at least 45 minutes per day, broken up as gym class or teacher permits. They should have at least 55 minutes of art/music twice a week, meaning art one period, music another.

Homework should be no more than 45 minutes in 3rd grade, 1/2 hour or less in k-2.

4-6 should continue Science and Social Studies, using appropriate reading novels to reinforce lessons. The emphasis is now on the subject, reinforcing reading principles. Skills for research projects need to be taught in 4th, perhaps with a science or social studies fair at the end of the year. Fosters competition, research skills, arts/writing. Writing should be a daily activity in reading, science, and social studies. Essay tests and quizzes should be given often.

Fractions, decimals should be taught in 4th grade, reinforcing basic math from previous years, over and over again. Timed tests should be used for math facts at least every 2 weeks. By the end of 4th grade, basic math should be mastered by 100% that are slightly below avg-gifted, (gifted are on a different program, but basic facts still must be known by rote.)

5th and 6th grade math should again keep basic math facts reinforce. Algebraic theorems and formulas should be introduced, first using numbers, then introducing the abstract. By doing this the child is no longer intimidated by the 'unknown' and actually the process will hammer home basic facts.

4th grade homework will take 45-90 minutes.
5th and 6th, 60-120 minutes.

7th and 8th grade should be subject specialty taught, (6th grade too, usually). The student should be accountable for subject reading, vocabulary, and comprehension questions. The teacher should be explaining the content and giving enrichment. There should be both long and short term written assignments, with a syllabus and rubric given for both. It is good practice to give examples of exemplary, average, and failing products-on a different topic, but that the same rubric could be applied. Once a topic is introduced, the class time often will be spent on research or conferences regarding the reports/assessments.

Math should be tracked. While all 7th/8th graders should finish a basic algebra/geometry program, higher performing students should be able to move at their own pace. Trig and advanced algebra are subjects that many middle schoolers can handle, but not all. It's more important that the kids get what is introduced, than trying to cover more material than they are able.

Reading too should be tracked. Science and social studies tend to not require tracking, for all but seriously poor readers. However, the enrichment materials, especially those available during reading are dependent on both speed and comprehension abilities.

High school should be tracked, by both abilities and interests.
 
Oh, that's funny. Especially considering how many Republicans say:

"I made my money the old-fashioned way, I inherited it."



When are you gonna demonstrate that you inherited a cerebrum?

level04cerebrum.jpg
 
The ROOT causes of the failures of American education are cultural and economic:

In a capitalist soceity, the motivation for education is capitalist gain - go to school so that you can get a 'good' job. In other societies education is a goal unto itself, and is respected in and of itself.

In America, the colleges themselves are capitalistic institutions - thereby promoting themselves as the only recognised means of education, while at the same time providing the poorest quality of education at the highest cost possible.

The result is a society that only educates to the minimum degree needed to hold a job. A society of narrow-minded specialists. Comprehensive thinking all but doesn't exist.

Self-education as a lifetime endevour, combined with formal education, is the only true way that a person can be fully an comprehensively educated. But comprehensive thinking is not rewarded by capitalism, and self-education is not recognised.

Schools should teach critical, analytical and comprehensive thinking. They should also teach continued self-education as a way of life.

For as long as we continue to be a society of narrow-minded specialists, with no respect for anything but the almighty dollar, we'll never even figure out, nor ever agree on, what our problem with education is, much less how to fix it.

It seems that we just aren't well-educated enough.
 
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The ROOT causes of the failures of American education are cultural and economic:

In a capitalist soceity, the motivation for education is capitalist gain - go to school so that you can get a 'good' job. In other societies education is a goal unto itself, and is respected in and of itself.

In America, the colleges themselves are capitalistic institutions - thereby promoting themselves as the only recognised means of education, while at the same time providing the poorest quality of education at the highest cost possible.

The result is a society that only educates to the minimum degree needed to hold a job. A society of narrow-minded specialists. Comprehensive thinking all but doesn't exist.

Self-education as a lifetime endevour, combined with formal education, is the only true way that a person can be fully an comprehensively educated. But comprehensive thinking is not rewarded by capitalism, and self-education is not recognised.

Schools should teach critical, analytical and comprehensive thinking. They should also teach continued self-education as a way of life.

For as long as we continue to be a society of narrow-minded specialists, with no respect for anything but the almighty dollar, we'll never even figure out, nor ever agree on, what our problem with education is, much less how to fix it.

It seems that we just aren't well-educated enough.

Trying to find the needle of reality in your haystack of blithering nonsense isn't easy, but you're probably a product of, "comprehensive thinking...not rewarded by capitalism."

Rather than the "Almighty Dollar," what exactly are you saying would motivate anyone to learn anything?

"In other societies education is a goal unto itself, and is respected in and of itself."

Really?

Some society on your planet?:confused:

:eusa_hand:

Try to keep the conversation relative to the Planet Earth, and REAL Humans.
 
i'm left with the impression that in the US, the vast majority of educators (to include teachers and others involved), parents and students don't value education as much as other countries. we feel other values like fairness, equality, creativity, happiness and freedom are more important. cumulatively, these values crowd out educational performance altogether -- certainly on the scale which other countries are compared to our own.

my parents were immigrants and i was mostly privately schooled. as a result, educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture and public education. among those who have achieved top results from their education, this is a common thread from my personal observation.

education is not everything, and i think those who have delved into narrow aspects of the potential overall experience have problems. without the value system to take full advantage of it, i think it is a waste of time and money, however. 12 years of going through the motions for many people.
 
The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

let's take for granted that you've got the right formula for education. how will you affect 'a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system' without the DoE or something just like it?
 
parents were immigrants and i was mostly privately schooled. as a result, educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture and public education.

Actually, I doubt the fact you were "privately schooled" had nearly as much to do with, "educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture," as the fact your parents were immigrants.

Often, people immigrate to the USA to become more affluent.

This means they come from somewhere that their opportunity to become more affluent is so unlikely that they must actually change citizenship, not a trivial task, and maybe even learn a new language, and a completely new environment, culture, etc.

These circumstances are exactly those which about which I'm speaking: They appreciated the opportunity that was being offered.
 
The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

let's take for granted that you've got the right formula for education. how will you affect 'a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system' without the DoE or something just like it?
The US has for years assimilated immigrants, brought up those economically disadvantaged, with DOE. Since it's inception, it's been the model of Lilliputians and Gulliver.

There's no argument that private education, usually parochial has out performed public sector over time, because of higher standards and emphasis on basics. However, immigrants that were not able to access parochial/private, often excelled after public school education.
 
parents were immigrants and i was mostly privately schooled. as a result, educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture and public education.

Actually, I doubt the fact you were "privately schooled" had nearly as much to do with, "educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture," as the fact your parents were immigrants.

Often, people immigrate to the USA to become more affluent.

This means they come from somewhere that their opportunity to become more affluent is so unlikely that they must actually change citizenship, not a trivial task, and maybe even learn a new language, and a completely new environment, culture, etc.

These circumstances are exactly those which about which I'm speaking: They appreciated the opportunity that was being offered.

this could be true. i doesn't line up with my personal experience because i think my parents got better educations for free than they paid to get me... at least through high school. plus they retained their citizenship and i've adopted it along with my own. i think lots of asian and indian kids, to hurl out a stereotype, excel in education because of parents who value education for the reasons you point out, though. it's just different from my background. same pressure, same results, different reasoning perhaps.

i think private schools (those i attended, at least) pinch down on freedom in pursuit of discipline as a mode of operation. they tend toward traditional methodologies valuing making the grade over the creativity and hope-spawning tactics to which public schools are increasingly endeared. it is different in that one system is education through ass-kickin and the other is education through a back-rub.
 
parents were immigrants and i was mostly privately schooled. as a result, educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture and public education.

Actually, I doubt the fact you were "privately schooled" had nearly as much to do with, "educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture," as the fact your parents were immigrants.

Often, people immigrate to the USA to become more affluent.

This means they come from somewhere that their opportunity to become more affluent is so unlikely that they must actually change citizenship, not a trivial task, and maybe even learn a new language, and a completely new environment, culture, etc.

These circumstances are exactly those which about which I'm speaking: They appreciated the opportunity that was being offered.

this could be true. i doesn't line up with my personal experience because i think my parents got better educations for free than they paid to get me... at least through high school. plus they retained their citizenship and i've adopted it along with my own. i think lots of asian and indian kids, to hurl out a stereotype, excel in education because of parents who value education for the reasons you point out, though. it's just different from my background. same pressure, same results, different reasoning perhaps.

i think private schools (those i attended, at least) pinch down on freedom in pursuit of discipline as a mode of operation. they tend toward traditional methodologies valuing making the grade over the creativity and hope-spawning tactics to which public schools are increasingly endeared. it is different in that one system is education through ass-kickin and the other is education through a back-rub.


I agree 100%. Those cultures/parents that put a high value on education tend to do what is necessary to insure their children make the maximum effort. They provide the parameters within their culture to maximize success. Funny thing, Asians and Jews tend towards instilling their children with expectations of high academic achievement. Often ignoring the responsibilities of work that I previously posted. They are a consistent exception to my 'rules'.

When I was studying sociology among all the statistics we read, Jews and Irish Catholic females basically beat out all other groups regarding higher education. Why? Expectations.
 
Actually, I doubt the fact you were "privately schooled" had nearly as much to do with, "educational achievement crowded out many of these other values promoted in american culture," as the fact your parents were immigrants.

Often, people immigrate to the USA to become more affluent.

This means they come from somewhere that their opportunity to become more affluent is so unlikely that they must actually change citizenship, not a trivial task, and maybe even learn a new language, and a completely new environment, culture, etc.

These circumstances are exactly those which about which I'm speaking: They appreciated the opportunity that was being offered.

this could be true. i doesn't line up with my personal experience because i think my parents got better educations for free than they paid to get me... at least through high school. plus they retained their citizenship and i've adopted it along with my own. i think lots of asian and indian kids, to hurl out a stereotype, excel in education because of parents who value education for the reasons you point out, though. it's just different from my background. same pressure, same results, different reasoning perhaps.

i think private schools (those i attended, at least) pinch down on freedom in pursuit of discipline as a mode of operation. they tend toward traditional methodologies valuing making the grade over the creativity and hope-spawning tactics to which public schools are increasingly endeared. it is different in that one system is education through ass-kickin and the other is education through a back-rub.


I agree 100%. Those cultures/parents that put a high value on education tend to do what is necessary to insure their children make the maximum effort. They provide the parameters within their culture to maximize success. Funny thing, Asians and Jews tend towards instilling their children with expectations of high academic achievement. Often ignoring the responsibilities of work that I previously posted. They are a consistent exception to my 'rules'.

When I was studying sociology among all the statistics we read, Jews and Irish Catholic females basically beat out all other groups regarding higher education. Why? Expectations.

I would interpret it as the alternative being so consistantly, and as a result, culturally horrifying, that Jews, Asians, even Catholic Females, etc., would sacrifice anything to avoid being undereducated:

Undereducated Jew: How many goy are gonna put up with you on the loading dock?

Undereducated Asian: Yep, we need another guy to carry rocks from a quarry until he drops dead.

Undereducated Irish Catholic Female: Stay home, have babies, and get beat-up on a weekly basis.
 

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