Root Cause of US Education System Failure

[Samson]

Just watching Meet the Press showing that the US is at the bottom of developed countries' for education. The top US 5% of students are still in the lower half of the world's kids.

Why is this? Who has ideas how to improve the US kids' performance?

Is it the teachers? The teacher's unions? The parents? The apparent lack of discipline in schools? The kids are too distracted from studies? The drug culture and societal changes in younger sexuality (i.e. the kids get sexually active younger and studying takes a back-seat to fun in the back-seat)

Could it be that politicians penalized having kids so professionals had fewer kids and only the welfare queens had large families, then did not have the skills to educate or care for their large families?

Lets take a poll....

I'll throw my two cents in, then see what poll option comes closest.

My two cents:

The root cause is AFFUENCE:

Affluence - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of AFFLUENCE
1a : an abundant flow or supply : profusion b : abundance of property : wealth
2: a flowing to or toward a point : influx
Examples of AFFLUENCE
<this affluence of new students is straining an already crowded school system>

Although Merriam-Webster gives two definitions but only one example, I'll give another:

"Americans have so much affluence, that they don't see any need to be educated."

spoiled and lazy.
Yep the American way.

The OP was too lazy to include this option in the poll.

 

[chanel]

At the other end of the spectrum are the special needs children. In many cases, these kids don't benefit from any educational programs at all, but receive paraprofessionals and specialized instruction. Often, this is no more than baby-sitting. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but it's reality. Also, there is a huge amount of money put into special ed programs for kids with educational deficits and things like ADHD. I am all for this because these kids do benefit massively from specialized programs.

If you can take a special needs kid or a kid with behavioral problems and teach them the skills they need to go out into the workforce and support themselves, you have accomplished as much as if you took a bright kid and gave him the skills to get into Harvard.

We need to help kids at all levels. If a kid is considered a failure because he can't pass a standardized test it does not mean the school has failed. If you can take a kid who otherwise would have been a burden on society through welfare or prison and put him on a path where he can get a job and contribute to society....you have still succeeded as a school

True. And I question whether those international statistics include special needs kids. Our stats here in the U.S. do.

 

[California Girl]

Actually our schools continue to turn out some of the best students in the world. There is more to education than taking tests. There is creativity, initiative,communication skills, leadership, teamwork....all lead to a productive citizen.

American students have historically done very well when they get into the workforce

Source?

 

[uscitizen]

I'll throw my two cents in, then see what poll option comes closest.

My two cents:

The root cause is AFFUENCE:

Affluence - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Although Merriam-Webster gives two definitions but only one example, I'll give another:

"Americans have so much affluence, that they don't see any need to be educated."

spoiled and lazy.
Yep the American way.

The OP was too lazy to include this option in the poll.

just a victim...

 

[uscitizen]

I did not see lack of disipline and removing corporal punishment from schools on the poll list.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually our schools continue to turn out some of the best students in the world. There is more to education than taking tests. There is creativity, initiative,communication skills, leadership, teamwork....all lead to a productive citizen.

American students have historically done very well when they get into the workforce

Source?

I hire them

I find that relying strictly on GPAs and test scores does not get you the best employee. Hiring a 4.0 student who has poor speaking skills or poor social skills will get you an employee incapable of excelling in the workforce.

 

[Samson]

I did not see lack of disipline and removing corporal punishment from schools on the poll list.

Its the third choice:

"Its the total lack of discipline, bring back old style discipline"

You were too lazy to read the list.

 

[midcan5]

As I view various sites there is a consistency that often astounds me. Conservative MSM repeats the same tired cliches and the talking heads and bloggers repeat them and soon they cycle around to be repeated again.

This is a bit off topic but excellent and funny as it is another element of the discussion. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLi-vJSNP6U]YouTube - Ken Robinson - Differentiated Teaching -[/ame]

Repost:

Each year I ask my wife about her new group of students, and in the past, I'd say eight years or so, she claims they are dumber than the year before. And this is not just her opinion, but the opinion of lots of teachers in public, private, and way too expensive private schools. One college prof who part times today, calls some colleges 'check schools,' write the check and you graduate. Whenever I read that it is the teachers fault, I wonder how that could be given the teachers I know. It ain't the teachers folks, it is the students, their parents, and American culture.

What is a well known American criticism today? You are a pinhead, intellectual elitist. What is praised today (and in the past) you are a common sense kind of rough and tumble guy or gal. No need to give examples. So why? Some guesses. Because we are a nation of individuals and education is a collective endeavor requiring you listen to the other. Rich people dropped out of school, thus school is useless. I gonna be a [pick a sport] star, a singing star, an actor, a politician. Why do I need algebra, sentence structure, reading comprehension, math, or science? I added politician for fun, they still seem a bit educated, but that could change in November.


Finland as counter example: "Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries." Lessons From Finland: The Way to Education Excellence | CommonDreams.org

"At the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools."


Anti-Intellectualism in American Life [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170/ref=pd_sim_b_4]Amazon.com: Anti-Intellectualism in American Life (9780394703176): Richard Hofstadter: Books[/ame]


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dumbest-Generation-Stupefies-Americans-Jeopardizes/dp/1585426393/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30) (9781585426393): Mark Bauerlein: Books[/ame]


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/ref=pd_sim_b_2]Amazon.com: Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business (9780143036531): Neil Postman, Andrew Postman: Books[/ame]


"This is the truth that the Great Education Myth aims to obscure. It's not that schools are ill-equipped to train STEM specialists. It's that the additional students who might boost our STEM workforce are choosing to avoid STEM majors because they see an economy that is more hospitable to careers in Wall Street casinos rather than in high-tech innovation -- a financialized economy based less on creating tangible assets than on encouraging worthless speculation.

This doesn't mean that our education system is perfect. But it does mean that without reforming the trade, tax and regulatory policies that reward high-tech outsourcing and incentivize careers in finance, our schools can never be an engine of value-generating information-age jobs." The neoliberal bait-and-switch - Education - Salon.com


old debates on site.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now-2.html#post2074607
http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...liberals-in-the-classroom-11.html#post1749647

 

[American Horse]

I did not see lack of disipline and removing corporal punishment from schools on the poll list.

Its the third choice:

"Its the total lack of discipline, bring back old style discipline"

You were too lazy to read the list.

it is, and that flowed out of the 'Sixties' mentality that produced the parenting that makes a class of greater than maybe 20 students unmanageable for a lot of teachers, and that leads to "burn-out" for teachers who struggle with the chaos in their class-rooms.
And then this leads to the teacher's union being enabled to increase their membership because of this situation.

 

[chanel]

Oh. We forgot to include bogus lawsuits. A majority of educational decisions are made with only one question in mind: "How do avoid the lawyers"?

 

[WillowTree]

Just watching Meet the Press showing that the US is at the bottom of developed countries' for education. The top US 5% of students are still in the lower half of the world's kids.

Why is this? Who has ideas how to improve the US kids' performance?

Is it the teachers? The teacher's unions? The parents? The apparent lack of discipline in schools? The kids are too distracted from studies? The drug culture and societal changes in younger sexuality (i.e. the kids get sexually active younger and studying takes a back-seat to fun in the back-seat)

Could it be that politicians penalized having kids so professionals had fewer kids and only the welfare queens had large families, then did not have the skills to educate or care for their large families?

Lets take a poll....

It is the teacher's unions, they are screwing up education just like the uaw screwed up auto manufacturing.

 

[Samson]

Just watching Meet the Press showing that the US is at the bottom of developed countries' for education. The top US 5% of students are still in the lower half of the world's kids.

Why is this? Who has ideas how to improve the US kids' performance?

Is it the teachers? The teacher's unions? The parents? The apparent lack of discipline in schools? The kids are too distracted from studies? The drug culture and societal changes in younger sexuality (i.e. the kids get sexually active younger and studying takes a back-seat to fun in the back-seat)

Could it be that politicians penalized having kids so professionals had fewer kids and only the welfare queens had large families, then did not have the skills to educate or care for their large families?

Lets take a poll....

I'll throw my two cents in, then see what poll option comes closest.

My two cents:

The root cause is AFFUENCE:

Affluence - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of AFFLUENCE
1a : an abundant flow or supply : profusion b : abundance of property : wealth
2: a flowing to or toward a point : influx
Examples of AFFLUENCE
<this affluence of new students is straining an already crowded school system>

Although Merriam-Webster gives two definitions but only one example, I'll give another:

"Americans have so much affluence, that they don't see any need to be educated."

spoiled and lazy.
Yep the American way.

Try living in a mud hut without electricty and eating a bowl of rice every day.

Then someone comes to the door, asks if you'd like to learn math so you can be employed as an electrical engineer, you don't respond with, "no, I'm looking forward to eating rice the rest of my life."

 

[rdean]

Actually our schools continue to turn out some of the best students in the world. There is more to education than taking tests. There is creativity, initiative,communication skills, leadership, teamwork....all lead to a productive citizen.

American students have historically done very well when they get into the workforce

Source?

I hire them

I find that relying strictly on GPAs and test scores does not get you the best employee. Hiring a 4.0 student who has poor speaking skills or poor social skills will get you an employee incapable of excelling in the workforce.

Funny, I worked with a guy who received a 4.0 in both High School and College. His speaking skills were excellent, but his social skills weren't. He always assumed he was correct. He wrote code for industrial equipment. As long as he was writing code, he was always correct. His ideas about mechanical engineering were strange to say the least.

He recently quit. He went to a company where he had to compete with about 20 other programmers over three months or so. They actually had people work in groups and solve problems until it was narrowed down to him and one other guy. He was offered the job. It nearly doubled his salary.

He went to work at a software company and his job will be to convert all their software to "Linux".

Next week, we have another programmer, from Germany, taking his place. This guy has a PHD.

The point is, people with education are in demand. Especially science and technology.

People who are raised learning about "Noah's Ark" and "Samson", don't do well in science and technology.

One area that's booming in the US is automation. Even automated assembly lines need technicians and assemblers and machinist and designers. Jobs from Bible Study are getting fewer and fewer. Republicans are being left behind. Democrats are getting all the good jobs.

 

[blu]

government and unions are the problem. if you want your kid educated you either need the best private schools, but evne those are straddled by wasting time in order to meet state standards. if you can't home school then you need to spend an extra hour or two a day teaching your kid beyond what they learn in school.

you also need to make them read real books and not the watered down crap they push today. go on amazon and find the orginal versions not the "abridged, PC, don't offend anyone" crap. They also need to read daily

 

[rdean]

government and unions are the problem. if you want your kid educated you either need the best private schools, but evne those are straddled by wasting time in order to meet state standards. if you can't home school then you need to spend an extra hour or two a day teaching your kid beyond what they learn in school.

you also need to make them read real books and not the watered down crap they push today. go on amazon and find the orginal versions not the "abridged, PC, don't offend anyone" crap. They also need to read daily

Oh yea. Home school will work. "Meeting standards" is "bad".

 

[blu]

government and unions are the problem. if you want your kid educated you either need the best private schools, but evne those are straddled by wasting time in order to meet state standards. if you can't home school then you need to spend an extra hour or two a day teaching your kid beyond what they learn in school.

you also need to make them read real books and not the watered down crap they push today. go on amazon and find the orginal versions not the "abridged, PC, don't offend anyone" crap. They also need to read daily

Oh yea. Home school will work. "Meeting standards" is "bad".

it sure will. american standards are a joke. my stepson attends regular school, but in math and science we work with him extra to teach him to india's and other international standards. america's are a joke.

we are considering homeschool any future kids. at least until 3rd or 4th grade. he/she would be equivalent to 8th graders in america academically if we did this.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

 

[blu]

The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

Interested in what would be covered for police officer training... gun handling? criminal psychology? any sort of forensics processing? there is plenty of possible areas

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

Interested in what would be covered for police officer training... gun handling? criminal psychology? any sort of forensics processing? there is plenty of possible areas

You know what, I'm open for suggestions. Forensics would let students see how important science is and they might approach it with a whole new attitude.

But maybe all high school students should at least know how to handle a firearm.

 

[blu]

The US Department of Education needs to be complete vaporized.

We need a broad, diverse, comprehensive educational system that recognizes that students need the following:

Proficiency in Communication skills (reading, writing, computer)

Proficiency in basic math

Basic Finance (balancing a check book and studying how people get rich)

American Government (Basic understanding of why we're special and what separates us from the rest of the world and why people line up to come here even illegally)

After that the student should be exposed to a rich diverse Universe of educational opportunities in technology, arts, civil service, trades and crafts, sports, but with a serious emphasis on helping a high school age student understand what is involved in being an auto mechanic, police officer, or investment banker

Interested in what would be covered for police officer training... gun handling? criminal psychology? any sort of forensics processing? there is plenty of possible areas

You know what, I'm open for suggestions. Forensics would let students see how important science is and they might approach it with a whole new attitude.

But maybe all high school students should at least know how to handle a firearm.

I agree about the forensics part, in the science museum of chicago, we were there when they had a CSI exhibit and it was pretty fun to "solve a case".

the problem is though that stuff is actually really hard. my brother started his college career to become a criminal forensics type person, whatever the actual degree was called, and he dropped out after two semesters because of all the calculus, chemistry, and biology. Even with me tutoring him in calculus it was still too much for him.

I do computer forensics for a job and while its also interesting you need a lot of training and computer understanding. I wish students who get more computer training b/c our field is begging for competent people.