Roosevelt's Greatest Blunder

[Camp]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There was nothing that the Nazis did that they didn't, either learn from Stalin....or that Stalin didn't do worse.

"...to the hundreds of millions killed..."
You're truly a moron, aren't you.

Now watch your language or I'll have to give you the beating you deserve.

suck it super whore. hundred of millions suffered. stalin didn't teach nazi shit. you must be a german

hundreds of million suffered under FDR's buddy Uncle Joe

Millions suffer in today's world also....

But only a few from Progressive mass murderers.

Millions of Americans came home to peace and prosperity thanks to FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe. If not for FDR's manipulation of Stalin that convinced him to sacrifice over 10 million Soviet soldiers to drain the Nazi forces of manpower and equipment before D-Day, America would have been forced to sacrifice millions of men. That is just one of the reasons there are two major Memorials to FDR and he is rated as one of the most popular and the greatest President in modern history.

"... FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe."

You really go out of your way to prove what a moron you are, don't you.

Really....it's not necessary.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunderwas bowing to Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.



2. Franklin Roosevelt was known to fabricate all sorts of things...that he wrote Haiti's constitution, that his cabinet would be made to swear to a balanced budget, that he came up with the idea of 'Lend Lease,'....none of which are true.
He also put out the idea that 'unconditional surrender' of Germany originated with him.

Robert Sherwood, Harry Hopkins official biographer, quotes Roosevelt as saying "The thought popped into my mind...and the next thing I knew I had said it."
Sherwood, "The White House Papers of Harry L. Hopkins; Vol II," p. 693



Actually, the policy was first mentioned in January of 1943, at the Casablanca Conference.

a. The State Department Casablanca Conference records explains that this controversial surrender policy came from a meeting of a State Department and Council on Foreign Relations panel.

BTW....that was the same panel with "...working alongside him in the Council was Alger Hiss, a newly elected member sympathetic to the left wing of the Democratic Party,..."
The group functioned via this mantra: "Cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union is as essential as almost anything in the world today, and unless and until it becomes entirely evident that the U.S.S.R. is not interested in achieving cooperation, we must redouble, not abandon, our efforts, when the task proves difficult." http://www.cfr.org/about/history/cfr/first_transformation.html


Since the group briefed Roosevelt prior to January 1943, clearly the idea of 'unconditional surrender did not originate with Roosevelt.
Churchill knew nothing of the plan.


3. Actually, the very first use of the phrase 'unconditional surrender" at Casablanca was by Harry Hopkins. One day earlier, January 23, before the President announced it, Hopkins told the grand vizier of Morocco, "The war will be pursued until Germany, Italy, and Japan agree to unconditional surrender."
"Harry Hopkins: Ally of the Poor and Defender of Democracy," by George McJimsey, p.277
and FRUS: Washington and Casablanca, p. 703.



4. When, on January 24, 1943, Roosevelt read several pages of notes discussing the doctrine to reporters, according to Sherwood, "carefully prepared in advance,"...one might ask who regularly prepared and edited said notes.

a. Harry Hopkins,- FDR's alter ego, co-president, or Rasputin, "...the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was a Soviet agent." and “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins
The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins


b. Life magazine ran a spread on Hopkins on September 22, 1941, calling his a one-man cabinet to Roosevelt. In fact, he lived at the White House, in the Lincoln Bedroom, from May 1940 to December 1943.
LIFE - Google Books, p. 93.

c. Elliott [Roosevelt, FDR's son] attributes this comment to his father: "Of course, it's just the thing for the Russians. They couldn't want anything better. Unconditional surrender! Uncle Joe might have made it up himself."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p.122




And so was born Allied doctrine.
And the policy that ensured Soviet domination over half of Europe....at the cost of American lives and treasure....

Any guess as to where the policy actually originated?

After what Germany did to the work it shouldn't have been pulverize as a lesson it and the world to come would never forget? Shut the fuck up you fucking jerk off. They got off light compared to the hundreds of millions killed and put through hell because of their stupid national pride.

There was nothing that the Nazis did that they didn't, either learn from Stalin....or that Stalin didn't do worse.

"...to the hundreds of millions killed..."
You're truly a moron, aren't you.

Now watch your language or I'll have to give you the beating you deserve.

suck it super whore. hundred of millions suffered. stalin didn't teach nazi shit. you must be a german

You disgusting little dwarf.....

Which are, more stupid or more vulgar?


Remedial education here:

The Soviet Story," an award winning documentary clarifying the close and personal attachments of Hitler's Nazis and Stalin's Communists.

"Soviet Story" is the most powerful antidote yet to the sanitisation of the past. The film is gripping, audacious and uncompromising. [...] The main aim of the film is to show the close connections—philosophical, political and organisational—between the Nazi and Soviet systems."
http://www.economist.com/node/11401983


1. The film opens showing the method used to kill millions of civilians...hands tied behind their backs, an expertly aimed shot to the back of the head, the fall into a mass grave. Not the Nazis....Stalin's Soviets....and this went on for years, well before FDR embraced the USSR.

2. A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...." November 27, 1925.(Article provided in the film)

3. Shortly thereafter the Nazis found it more useful to stress differences, and the earlier campaign posters showing similarities disappeared, posters with both the hammer and sickle and the swastika. (18:30)

a. "Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism." George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

b. "Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists." Vladimir Bukovsky.

The film goes on to show a series of Nazi and Russian propaganda posters....except for the language, almost identical.

4. The Soviet Premier Molotov warned the West not to fight Nazi ideology. And in his address to the Supreme Soviet in the Kremlin, Molotov declared that fighting Nazi ideology was actually a crime.....because the two ideologies and methods were the same. Molotov oversaw the extermination of 7 million Ukrainians; Hitler, the Jews.

a. Many Jews fled to the USSR....where Stalin rounded them up, and delivered them to the Gestapo as a gesture of friendship.

5. "The Soviet NKVD trained the SS, taught them how to build concentration camps, as they had been operating for 20 years before the origin of the Nazis." Viktor Suvorov, former Soviet Military Intelligence Officer.
"According to Suvorov,Stalin planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West. For this reason Stalin provided significant material and political support toAdolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing theRed Armyto “liberate” the whole ofEuropefrom Nazi occupation." Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Rammed that down your throat, huh?

Learn to respect you better, you little filth.

hey stupid, you can think you know history and judge whose more evil but what the germans did deserved their country's total destruction. period. doesn't matter how bad stalin was. germany started it and was rightfully held accountable. you fucking moron. stop memorizing the past is shit. watching it repeat is what you are best at. your german is showing lady. that's why you think you are somebody's superior? lol

1. "...doesn't matter how bad stalin was."
Good to see your first retreat.

The beatings aren't over, you slimy little twerp.


2. "germany started it."
No, you moron....the alliance of Germany and Russia 'started it.'

a. September 1, 1939, Hitler attacked Poland....on September 17, Stalin attacks from the East. The Soviet radio transmitter in Minsk guided the Nazi bombers attacking Polish cities. Newsreel footage showed the Red Army in Nazi helmets, marching side by side with the SS. One photo shows the hammer and sickle along side the swastika.

b. The Soviet press depicted the battle as a fight against Polish fascism, with the peace-loving Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union fighting aggressive Polish fascism.

c. Hitler and Stalin signed secret protocols to divide up Europe. First, Stalin moved against Finland, November 1939....for the aggression, the USSR was expelled from the League of Nations. Hitler attacked to the West.

a. Norway was invaded with the direct help of the Soviet Union, providing the Soviet naval base near Murmansk. "German Admiral Raeder sent a letter of thanks to the Commander of the Soviet Navy, Kuznetsov."

3. Archival footage shows Nazi and Russian officers partying together. The USSR became the supplier of oil, iron ore, construction materials for Hitler's Blitzkrieg. And trainloads of grain, even while Russians were starving.

a. Communist party members throughout Europe were ordered to sabotage their nation's forces, and aid the Nazi attackers. The French Communist Party, July 1940: "It is comforting to see workers talking to German soldiers as friends,...'well done, comrades, and keep it up,' ...the brotherhood of man will not be forever a hope, it will become a living reality."



You're as dumb as asphalt....aren't you.

Now go wash out your mouth with soap, and pick up a history book...in that order.
NOW.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

What a pack of lies.

Every post of mine is documented, and provides scholarship.

As for name calling....my eschewing of profanity is the only thing that prevents my being even more accurate.

I wasn’t born with enough middle fingers to let you know how I really feel.

 

[Camp]

suck it super whore. hundred of millions suffered. stalin didn't teach nazi shit. you must be a german

hundreds of million suffered under FDR's buddy Uncle Joe

Millions suffer in today's world also....

But only a few from Progressive mass murderers.

Millions of Americans came home to peace and prosperity thanks to FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe. If not for FDR's manipulation of Stalin that convinced him to sacrifice over 10 million Soviet soldiers to drain the Nazi forces of manpower and equipment before D-Day, America would have been forced to sacrifice millions of men. That is just one of the reasons there are two major Memorials to FDR and he is rated as one of the most popular and the greatest President in modern history.

"... FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe."

You really go out of your way to prove what a moron you are, don't you.

Really....it's not necessary.

The moron would be the one who thinks Stalin manipulated the USA into accepting 407,000 military deaths in Europe defeating the Germans while the Soviets lost around 12,000,000. FDR had Stalin fighting year after year and gave him aid and equipment to do it. 400 hundred thousand vs. 12 million. Who manipulated who?

 

[Dot Com]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

yep. PoliticalSpice is trying to get people riled-up over a 2nd rate, petro, gangster state lol.

 

[Dot Com]

hundreds of million suffered under FDR's buddy Uncle Joe

Millions suffer in today's world also....

But only a few from Progressive mass murderers.

Millions of Americans came home to peace and prosperity thanks to FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe. If not for FDR's manipulation of Stalin that convinced him to sacrifice over 10 million Soviet soldiers to drain the Nazi forces of manpower and equipment before D-Day, America would have been forced to sacrifice millions of men. That is just one of the reasons there are two major Memorials to FDR and he is rated as one of the most popular and the greatest President in modern history.

"... FDR's manipulation of Uncle Joe."

You really go out of your way to prove what a moron you are, don't you.

Really....it's not necessary.

The moron would be the one who thinks Stalin manipulated the USA into accepting 407,000 military deaths in Europe defeating the Germans while the Soviets lost around 12,000,000. FDR had Stalin fighting year after year and gave him aid and equipment to do it. 400 hundred thousand vs. 12 million. Who manipulated who?

Don't resort to logic, that will only confuse politicalspice.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

yep. PoliticalSpice is trying to get people riled-up over a 2nd rate, petro, gangster state lol.

No, you imbecile....I simply provide the truth.

If you're so stupid you choose to ignore it.....that's on you.

 

[regent]

So what seems to be the outcome of this thread is that when Germany declared war on the US, America should have surrendered to Germany. Had we surrendered we would not have to invade Normandy, saving all those American lives. Then peace would have reigned in Europe.
Next, the Japanese incident regarding Pearl Harbor.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So what seems to be the outcome of this thread is that when Germany declared war on the US, America should have surrendered to Germany. Had we surrendered we would not have to invade Normandy, saving all those American lives. Then peace would have reigned in Europe.
Next, the Japanese incident regarding Pearl Harbor.

"So what seems to be the outcome of this thread is that when Germany declared war on the US, America should have surrendered to Germany."

Seems your posts have gone from attempted humor to abject stupidity.

 

[Unkotare]

They were fighting for the USSR, to defend their land.....

Whether they wanted to or not.

Yeah, the US wasn't drafting soldiers? The russians fought harder and sacrificed the most.

Your aversion to logic is pathetic.

You're [sic] stupidity is astounding....

Really, genius?

 

[Marxist]

They were fighting for the USSR, to defend their land.....

Whether they wanted to or not.

Yeah, the US wasn't drafting soldiers? The russians fought harder and sacrificed the most.

Your aversion to logic is pathetic.

You're [sic] stupidity is astounding....

Really, genius?

Yes, genius.

 

[Camp]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

What a pack of lies.

Every post of mine is documented, and provides scholarship.

As for name calling....my eschewing of profanity is the only thing that prevents my being even more accurate.

I wasn’t born with enough middle fingers to let you know how I really feel.

No, if your conspiracy theory had merit you would be defending your analysis of Canaris with academic responses to my refuting of your analysis. Instead you are simply refraining from adding to your silly ideas and answering the refuting with name calling. When posters refute and contest your out of context and distorted "documentation" and "sources" you respond like a child. If you were able to respond to the criticism about your use of Canaris and the Abwehr with scholarship you would. The fact is you do not have a workable knowledge of the Nazi intelligence systems or how they ranked. You do not know the players and the positions of authority that they held. Unfortunately for you, you are attempting to portray yourself as an expert on a subject that has an abundance of people who have invested lifetimes of experience and study due to their direct relationship to the topic. Your lack of expertise and knowledge on this subject is obvious.

 

[Marxist]

How could Germany surrender if Hitler didn't surrender? Is there evidence somewhere to indicate there was a force in Germany that could rebel against Hitler and his doctrine of no surrender under any conditions and go against him without being lined up in front of a wall and shot or strung up with piano wire?

The magical "anti-Nazis" of Frau Brauns fantasies did not even have enough power in May 1945 to arrange terms of surrender. This with the Nazi army crumbling and manned by little boys and old men

THe anti-Nazis of 1945 knew that there was no chance of any "terms of surrender". Allied policy had been very clear for a long time.

5 years might be the very best case scenario.

2 years? A border in the COld War that does not run right down the middle of Germany? Perhaps a setup that defuses that Cold War?

One does have to judge historical figures based on what they knew at the time.

But FDR signed an agreement with Stalin, where Stalin promised to have free elections in Soviet occupied Europe.

Did FDR believe that?

Did he have any plans to follow up on that?

Did he just write off Eastern Europe?

Did he give any consideration for the Balance of Power in the Post War world?

"Did he just write off Eastern Europe?"

1. By agreeing to Stalin's demands that the 'second front' be via Western Europe, rather than the Italy-Adriatic, Franklin Roosevelt was agreeing to turn Central and Eastern Europe over to occupation by the Red Army....and its 'tender mercies.'

Harry Hopkins and George Marshall were fully behind handing all of Eastern Europe over to Stalin's tender mercies.


Remember...they knew of the Terror Famine, the Katyn Forest Massacre, and other blood purges. by Stalin.


Evidence can be seen in a document which Hopkins took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,":
"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



2. Along came President Roosevelt, with the typical progressive blind eye to human suffering and slaughter. He ignored the 3-5 million starved to death in the Ukraine by the regime of the USSR, and rushed to embrace it, offering recognition in November of 1933.




The saddest of all is the moron, Camp, claiming that Roosevelt had 'a moral compass.'

Roosevelt obviously had a "moral compass," ..

All evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, your opinion is hilarious, partisan hackery is not needed.

 

[Marxist]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

What a pack of lies.

Every post of mine is documented, and provides scholarship.

As for name calling....my eschewing of profanity is the only thing that prevents my being even more accurate.

I wasn’t born with enough middle fingers to let you know how I really feel.

No, if your conspiracy theory had merit you would be defending your analysis of Canaris with academic responses to my refuting of your analysis. Instead you are simply refraining from adding to your silly ideas and answering the refuting with name calling. When posters refute and contest your out of context and distorted "documentation" and "sources" you respond like a child. If you were able to respond to the criticism about your use of Canaris and the Abwehr with scholarship you would. The fact is you do not have a workable knowledge of the Nazi intelligence systems or how they ranked. You do not know the players and the positions of authority that they held. Unfortunately for you, you are attempting to portray yourself as an expert on a subject that has an abundance of people who have invested lifetimes of experience and study due to their direct relationship to the topic. Your lack of expertise and knowledge on this subject is obvious.

BOOOOOOM.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

camp WHY do you do it? our resident troll PC here is just so lonely she seeks attention.

 

[Unkotare]

Whether they wanted to or not.

Yeah, the US wasn't drafting soldiers? The russians fought harder and sacrificed the most.

Your aversion to logic is pathetic.

You're [sic] stupidity is astounding....

Really, genius?

Yes, genius.

"Your" sure?

 

[Unkotare]

Roosevelt obviously had a "moral compass," ...

Oh yeah, the lying, irresponsible, adulterer who threw innocent AMERICANS into his concentration camps had a "moral compass."

You must be as much a scumbag as he was.

 

[Correll]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

PC has made a very well thought out and documented argument, and many of the posts aimed at her have been nothing but name calling.

Funny that doesn't make you think their arguments are weak...


Guess libs can dish it out, but can't take it.

 

[Camp]

If the PoliticalChics and CruesaderFranks had legitimate arguments and points to make they wouldn't have to always rely on name calling, insults and self aggrandizing. They are unable to make their opinions stand on their own. The constant use of these methods indicates that not even they have confidence or really believe the nonsense they spew and blather. In the end it mostly adds up to creative hate speech complimented with lies and misinformation.

PC has made a very well thought out and documented argument, and many of the posts aimed at her have been nothing but name calling.

Funny that doesn't make you think their arguments are weak...


Guess libs can dish it out, but can't take it.

Neither you nor she is able to show her work is a well thought out and documented argument. Just because you say it doesn't make it a fact or true. If you are fooled by her antiquated methods of hackery and dissemination of misinformation through the presentation of conspiracy theories, that is fine. You have just as much right to an opinion as anyone. When you can defend her distortions and out of context representations with academically accepted methods of refuting the challenging of those misrepresentations your criticism may be respected as something more than misguided whining.