Ron Santo elected to HOF

I wish Ron was still here to receive the phone call.

Congrats Ron...
 
Santo was the guy who would hit hard when it did not matter but could not come through in the clutch.

Bad election.
 
:lol: With Billy Williams and Ernie Banks!

When you played the Cubs, you worried about facing guys like Ernie Banks, Billy Williams and Fergie Jenkins. Ron Santo wasn't high on your "how are we going to stop this guy?" list

Do the Cubs of the 60s and early 70s deserve to have four Hall of Fame players?

They weren't that good
 
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i dont think he belongs and forgetting him for a moment its time to get rid of these old timers and vets committees. they may once have served a purpose but they dont any longer. at one point it was a good idea to go back and take a look at guys who played long before the HOF was established and no one had seen play so maybe they got overlooked. But now? No way. Santo was on the ballot for 15 years and never got CLOSE -- 43% is the best he ever did. Those whpo watched him and covered him found him wanting time and time again. We dont need a bunch of players / cronies getting in a room and giving him and others who didnt make it thru the front door a chance to sneak in thru the back door.
enough of this crap
 
i dont think he belongs and forgetting him for a moment its time to get rid of these old timers and vets committees. they may once have served a purpose but they dont any longer. at one point it was a good idea to go back and take a look at guys who played long before the HOF was established and no one had seen play so maybe they got overlooked. But now? No way. Santo was on the ballot for 15 years and never got CLOSE -- 43% is the best he ever did. Those whpo watched him and covered him found him wanting time and time again. We dont need a bunch of players / cronies getting in a room and giving him and others who didnt make it thru the front door a chance to sneak in thru the back door.
enough of this crap

I agree. The veterans committee made sense when you had 50 years of veterans who played before there was a HOF. It also made sense for Negro league players.

Right now, it is a back door entry into the HOF for those who were not good enough.

Santo was a good player, but not HOF material. He got in because he died of cancer and was a big Chicago Cub booster. Four Hall of famers from those crappy Cub teams from the 60s and 70s is a joke
 
Bullshit. Santo was the best 3rd baseman in his era, with the exception of Brooks Robinson. His stats for the first 10 years of his career are better than Cal Ripken, Jr.
 
Bullshit. Santo was the best 3rd baseman in his era, with the exception of Brooks Robinson. His stats for the first 10 years of his career are better than Cal Ripken, Jr.

You are correct in the ten year Ripken comparison but there are a few things that Ripken has that Santo doesn't.

1. 3,000 hits
1a. An unbreakable Iron Man streak
2. MVP x 2
3. A Ring
4. ROY award

Now, Ripken's longevity definitely helped boost his resume because he had some crap ass years when he was obviously playing hurt.

But..........it's easy to look past those years and his sub .800 career OPS when he's got those sexy milestone numbers that Santo lacks.

Overall, I think he gets overrated because of the iron man streak but he's a no brainer HOFer because of the above list.

Santo tho? I agree with the OP that Santo isn't a HOFer. While Santo was a nice player he wasn't dominant enough by any stretch nor did he make any major milestone to warrant a conventional induction.

But it's a veteran's committee induction so whatev.

Santo did lead the lead the league in OBP twice though. Of course that meant jack and shit back then but that's still a great accomplishment and leading the lead in a legit category, IMO
 
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Bullshit. Santo was the best 3rd baseman in his era, with the exception of Brooks Robinson. His stats for the first 10 years of his career are better than Cal Ripken, Jr.

You are correct in the ten year Ripken comparison but there are a few things that Ripken has that Santo doesn't.

1. 3,000 hits
1a. An unbreakable Iron Man streak
2. MVP x 2
3. A Ring
4. ROY award

Now, Ripken's longevity definitely helped boost his resume because he had some crap ass years when he was obviously playing hurt.

But..........it's easy to look past those years and his sub .800 career OPS when he's got those sexy milestone numbers that Santo lacks.

Overall, I think he gets overrated because of the iron man streak but he's a no brainer HOFer because of the above list.

Santo tho? I agree with the OP that Santo isn't a HOFer. While Santo was a nice player he wasn't dominant enough by any stretch nor did he make any major milestone to warrant a conventional induction.

But it's a veteran's committee induction so whatev.

Santo did lead the lead the league in OBP twice though. Of course that meant jack and shit back then but that's still a great accomplishment and leading the lead in a legit category, IMO

and as you point out, right or wrong, 3000 hits is still a punched ticket into cooperstown. if santo had 300 hits, he would have been voted in when he first came up. probably first ballot. but he didnt so he wasnt.

also saying as the other guy did that he was the best of his era except for someone else isnt saying much. there are plenty of times when there is no one really good at a position. who was the best catcher of the 60s? No one special thats for sure. the best answer might be bench and he didnt break in until 1968 really which pretyy much proves my point which is for the era of the 60s there were no really good catchers so the best of them do not belong in the HOF
 
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The Case for Ron Santo and the Hall of Fame

You have to take a global look at Santo's career to truly appreciate him. If you break it down piece by piece, you miss the forest for the trees. And he should qualify whether you use old school measurements or new ones. Let me show you what I mean...

His 342 Career Home Runs rank 8th among 3rd baseman. His 9 All-Star appearances also rank just 8th. Pretty good, but not outstanding. However, when you consider the 11 third basemen that are in the Hall of Fame already, things start to look a bit better. Those numbers rank near the top of that group. Now let's put them together and ask how many HOF 3rd baseman have hit that many home runs AND appeared in that many all-star games?

The answer is two. Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews.

Then lets factor in defense -- let's add Santo's 5 Gold Glove awards to the equation: Now, only Santo and Schmidt remain. Okay, Gold Gloves don't necessarily mean much, if anything, as it tends to be extremely subjective. The same could be said with the aforementioned All-Star appearances.

Fair enough. I agree.

Let's look at the all-encompassing metric WAR. Where does Santo rank amongst all players in WAR? The answer is 105th. To put that into perspective, that's better than Hall of Famers Ozzie Smith, Willie McCovey, Roberto Alomar, Harmon Killebrew, Dave Winfield and Willie Stargell -- to name just a few. It's also higher than Hall of Fame teammate Ernie Banks and more recent Cub legends Ryne Sandberg and Andre Dawson.

That in itself is impressive. But where does Santo rank amongst 3rd basemen? Using 800 games played at 3b as a barometer (that's only 5 full seasons), Santo ranks 6th among 3rd basemen. All are currently in the HOF....so how is it that there are eleven 3rd basemen in the Hall of Fame and Santo isn't one of them? This is even a bigger oversight when you consider that this position is under-represented in the Hall of Fame.

You can pick Santo apart and say he didn't do this or that, but when you put it all together, by subjective or objective criteria, there is little rationale for not electing him to the Hall. What's more remarkable is that Santo put up his numbers in the pitcher's era of the 1960s. He also played over 2,000 games despite suffering from diabetes, and he played the game with as much enthusiasm and passion as he would show throughout his life. He represented baseball well. Ron Santo may yet get enshrined in the Hall of Fame tomorrow, but it's sad to think that he will never see it happen.

Shame on baseball. Santo deserved better.You have to take a global look at Santo's career to truly appreciate him. If you break it down piece by piece, you miss the forest for the trees. And he should qualify whether you use old school measurements or new ones. Let me show you what I mean...

His 342 Career Home Runs rank 8th among 3rd baseman. His 9 All-Star appearances also rank just 8th. Pretty good, but not outstanding. However, when you consider the 11 third basemen that are in the Hall of Fame already, things start to look a bit better. Those numbers rank near the top of that group. Now let's put them together and ask how many HOF 3rd baseman have hit that many home runs AND appeared in that many all-star games?

The answer is two. Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews.

Then lets factor in defense -- let's add Santo's 5 Gold Glove awards to the equation: Now, only Santo and Schmidt remain. Okay, Gold Gloves don't necessarily mean much, if anything, as it tends to be extremely subjective. The same could be said with the aforementioned All-Star appearances.

Fair enough. I agree.

Let's look at the all-encompassing metric WAR. Where does Santo rank amongst all players in WAR? The answer is 105th. To put that into perspective, that's better than Hall of Famers Ozzie Smith, Willie McCovey, Roberto Alomar, Harmon Killebrew, Dave Winfield and Willie Stargell -- to name just a few. It's also higher than Hall of Fame teammate Ernie Banks and more recent Cub legends Ryne Sandberg and Andre Dawson.

That in itself is impressive. But where does Santo rank amongst 3rd basemen? Using 800 games played at 3b as a barometer (that's only 5 full seasons), Santo ranks 6th among 3rd basemen. All are currently in the HOF....so how is it that there are eleven 3rd basemen in the Hall of Fame and Santo isn't one of them? This is even a bigger oversight when you consider that this position is under-represented in the Hall of Fame.

You can pick Santo apart and say he didn't do this or that, but when you put it all together, by subjective or objective criteria, there is little rationale for not electing him to the Hall. What's more remarkable is that Santo put up his numbers in the pitcher's era of the 1960s. He also played over 2,000 games despite suffering from diabetes, and he played the game with as much enthusiasm and passion as he would show throughout his life. He represented baseball well. Ron Santo may yet get enshrined in the Hall of Fame tomorrow, but it's sad to think that he will never see it happen.

Shame on baseball. Santo deserved better.
 
At the end of the day, Ron Santo just didn't it good enough for long enough to get in. They should have just kept him out.
 
At the end of the day, Ron Santo just didn't it good enough for long enough to get in. They should have just kept him out.

I look at three things in a Hall of Famer

1. What were your lifetime stats? 3000 hits, 500 HR, 1500 RBI, .300 BA and you are in

2. What were your five best years? Were you a top player in the game? Did you lead the league in a major statistic? Were you an MVP?

3. Were you a winner? Did you lead your team to important victories? Were you clutch in major games? Did you win a World Series?

If you get two out of the three, you are a HOF player. Santo does not qualify at any
 
At the end of the day, Ron Santo just didn't it good enough for long enough to get in. They should have just kept him out.

I look at three things in a Hall of Famer

1. What were your lifetime stats? 3000 hits, 500 HR, 1500 RBI, .300 BA and you are in

2. What were your five best years? Were you a top player in the game? Did you lead the league in a major statistic? Were you an MVP?

3. Were you a winner? Did you lead your team to important victories? Were you clutch in major games? Did you win a World Series?

If you get two out of the three, you are a HOF player. Santo does not qualify at any

I'll take ridiculous dominance if only for a short period of time as well.

Sandy Koufax was on another planet for five years and that's about it.

Nobody doubts his cred.

Kirby Puckett is another guy I kinda put in this category though not as an extreme case as Koufax.

Who would ever question either of their resume?
 
With Santo it's just like, "Sorry, Ron, you just weren't great"
 
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A guy who played during Santo's era and I think is more deserving of HOF is Joe Torre. Joe played catcher and third base and won an MVP in an absolutely monster year. Joe finished his career at just under .300 and was a dominant player
 

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