Ron Paul’s ‘Audit the Fed’ Bill Gathers Steam

[Sweet Willy]

Oh, fold it four ways and stuff it.

It's completely obvious that you're only interested in yourself here, and not discovering what t total scam the Fed Ponzi scheme is, because it would get between you getting your cut of the graft.

Your grade school attempts of attempting to project your greed upon me and others are exceptionally pedantic.

I know exactly how the Fed operates. It is a ponzi scheme. It's a scam. But I don't need what they have. I see no evidence that people in need will benefit from taking down the Fed. I see people who do not need, but still aspire to having more, that want to take what the Fed has.

The greedy stealing from the greedy. That's what you're talking about.

When you're ready to take on the Fed out of need, get back to me.

I don't know that I fully understand your objections, but I will say that it's not greedy to want to find out what the Federal Reserve is doing with and to our money.

I don't object, I just don't have any reason to get behind it. If it's not the Fed manipulating and controlling our money supply, collecting interest on loans, taking financial leverage against the populace, it will surely be someone else. And that someone is among the people most interested in getting at the Fed. They aren't after the Fed for some noble cause of leveling the field and helping people in need. No, they are capitalist with similar aspirations as the people who were crafty enough to corner control of the wealth before them. These people aren't in need, they just want more. And that's fine. It's Ok to want more than you need. It's called greed, it's an ugly word but it is the heart of capitalism. Capitalism has little to do with need as the reason for gathering wealth. You gather wealth for the purpose of gathering more wealth. There is no end to it. You just keep going after more. And the Fed appears to be in the way, to some, so they go after the Fed to clear the way for them to have more.

That's not my fight. Not my game. If there is a responsible plan to shift this control from the Fed to another group of people, or to reign in the Fed as it exist, fine. But don't go upsetting the apple cart for the huge number of us who don't have a stake in the game. There are a lot of people who are happy to just have what we need. Don't turn our world upside down for the sake of a greedy power struggle at the top.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I know exactly how the Fed operates. It is a ponzi scheme. It's a scam. But I don't need what they have. I see no evidence that people in need will benefit from taking down the Fed. I see people who do not need, but still aspire to having more, that want to take what the Fed has.

The greedy stealing from the greedy. That's what you're talking about.

When you're ready to take on the Fed out of need, get back to me.

I don't know that I fully understand your objections, but I will say that it's not greedy to want to find out what the Federal Reserve is doing with and to our money.

I don't object, I just don't have any reason to get behind it. If it's not the Fed manipulating and controlling our money supply, collecting interest on loans, taking financial leverage against the populace, it will surely be someone else. And that someone is among the people most interested in getting at the Fed. They aren't after the Fed for some noble cause of leveling the field and helping people in need. No, they are capitalist with similar aspirations as the people who were crafty enough to corner control of the wealth before them. These people aren't in need, they just want more. And that's fine. It's Ok to want more than you need. It's called greed, it's an ugly word but it is the heart of capitalism. Capitalism has little to do with need as the reason for gathering wealth. You gather wealth for the purpose of gathering more wealth. There is no end to it. You just keep going after more. And the Fed appears to be in the way, to some, so they go after the Fed to clear the way for them to have more.

That's not my fight. Not my game. If there is a responsible plan to shift this control from the Fed to another group of people, or to reign in the Fed as it exist, fine. But don't go upsetting the apple cart for the huge number of us who don't have a stake in the game. There are a lot of people who are happy to just have what we need. Don't turn our world upside down for the sake of a greedy power struggle at the top.

Well I'd say you're partially correct, but I think you're putting too much into the audit bill. Auditing the Fed is simply trying to find out exactly what it is they're doing. I think you're more or less talking about abolishing the Fed. If the Fed were abolished you're correct that its duties would go to someone else, which under the Constitution would be the Congress. However, at least at that point it's in the hands of people we actually elect, that way if we don't like the monetary policy they're pushing we can attempt to vote them out. Ideally, at least in my opinion, we would get rid of the Federal Reserve and allow the market to set interest rates, return to sound money, and get the government out of the economy all together.

I also think you've got a fairly pessimistic view of why some of us are against the Federal Reserve. I can't speak for everyone, but Ron Paul and the Austrian economists want to abolish the Fed, and all central economic planning, because it creates the boom-and-bust cycle by manipulating interest rates.

 

[editec]

In theorey, I agree with Ron. However, I am not wealthy enough or powerful enough to survive a total collapse of the US dollar, the economic system and the Banks of the US. It's a big mess and it will have to be dumped and changed sooner or later but I have to fall on the side of letting this puppy ride until I'm dead, by something other than starvation or food riots or looting of what few posessions I have.

If Ron had some viable plan for a system to replace the one this would destroy, quickly and effectively, I might get on board. But a simple audit, with no real plan to quickly repair the inevitable collpase to follow, is a typical conservative move. Tear some shit down with no idea of how to fix it.

This is utter insanity, and what's REALLY wrong with this country.

You acknowledge that auditing the Fed may cause a collapse (which I don't agree with), presumably because you suspect the kind of shit that would be uncovered would be that detrimental, but yet, you would rather let it continue on.

That's pathetic, dude. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Not my scheme, not my battle. Although I will be forced to help pay for it if it crashes while I'm alive. The people who have created and fostered the scheme have already collected the real wealth and will suffer little when paper is realized for paper. I hope to be dead when it happens. Truthfully.

There ya' go.

A completely rational response to the situation, methinks, SW.

Ron Paul wants to see an end to the system we have, and suspects (probably with good cause) that the whole damned thing is a massive swindle of the American people...indeed probably of the world economy, too.

Assuming he is right, the blowback of exposure will be the complete destruction of the American economy, and very likely the world economy, too.

Sweet Willy is chided for mentioning the probable enormous negative blowback of truly exposing this ongoing swindle.

Here's what I think...when the swindle is exposed, bad guys will get away with it.

Low level scapegoats will be found and imprisoned. (that's what usually happens isn't it?)

Nothing will really change.

the intergenerational conspirators that rape the people are so well positioned, so wealthy, so well connected, their conspiracy is so complex and so much a part of business as usual, that our economy cannot transit from this kleptocracy to something less odious.

The bastards are in charge and the bastards will always be in charge, no matter what system they devise.

If Americana REALLY want a different system, if they really want to rid themselves of the elite parsitic class which feeds off them, a revolution -- a bloody revolution -- is necessary.

And that ain't going happen. And even if it did, the bastards will end up running things again.

Maybe with a whole new set of bastards, but bastards who will use their power and their influence to feather their nest at our expense anyway.

Power, ladies and gentlemen, corrupts.

 

[Sweet Willy]

This is utter insanity, and what's REALLY wrong with this country.

You acknowledge that auditing the Fed may cause a collapse (which I don't agree with), presumably because you suspect the kind of shit that would be uncovered would be that detrimental, but yet, you would rather let it continue on.

That's pathetic, dude. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Not my scheme, not my battle. Although I will be forced to help pay for it if it crashes while I'm alive. The people who have created and fostered the scheme have already collected the real wealth and will suffer little when paper is realized for paper. I hope to be dead when it happens. Truthfully.

There ya' go.

A completely rational response to the situation, methinks, SW.

Ron Paul wants to see an end to the system we have, and suspects (probably with good cause) that the whole damned thing is a massive swindle of the American people...indeed probably of the world economy, too.

Assuming he is right, the blowback of exposure will be the complete destruction of the American economy, and very likely the world economy, too.

Sweet Willy is chided for mentioning the probable enormous negative blowback of truly exposing this ongoing swindle.

Here's what I think...when the swindle is exposed, bad guys will get away with it.

Low level scapegoats will be found and imprisoned. (that's what usually happens isn't it?)

Nothing will really change.

the intergenerational conspirators that rape the people are so well positioned, so wealthy, so well connected, their conspiracy is so complex and so much a part of business as usual, that our economy cannot transit from this kleptocracy to something less odious.

The bastards are in charge and the bastards will always be in charge, no matter what system they devise.

If Americana REALLY want a different system, if they really want to rid themselves of the elite parsitic class which feeds off them, a revolution -- a bloody revolution -- is necessary.

And that ain't going happen. And even if it did, the bastards will end up running things again.

Maybe with a whole new set of bastards, but bastards who will use their power and their influence to feather their nest at our expense anyway.

Power, ladies and gentlemen, corrupts.

That's the gist if it. They already have the wealth and power. An audit to find out the disposition of a bunch of worthless paper, that has the potential to demonstrate the worthlessness of that paper to the people whose faith in it is it's only value, just doesn't get me worked up. It will take a revolution to take back what has essentially been stolen. It will not be given up by one group of powerful thugs at the request of another powerful group of thugs. The paper can be rendered completely worthless very quickly and then those of us who only have paper are in trouble.

Don't get me wrong. Straightening out the Fed is the right thing to do. But I haven't heard anyone speaking the right reasons to do it yet. It's like cheering on Hitler to take out Pol Pot.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I don't know that I fully understand your objections, but I will say that it's not greedy to want to find out what the Federal Reserve is doing with and to our money.

I don't object, I just don't have any reason to get behind it. If it's not the Fed manipulating and controlling our money supply, collecting interest on loans, taking financial leverage against the populace, it will surely be someone else. And that someone is among the people most interested in getting at the Fed. They aren't after the Fed for some noble cause of leveling the field and helping people in need. No, they are capitalist with similar aspirations as the people who were crafty enough to corner control of the wealth before them. These people aren't in need, they just want more. And that's fine. It's Ok to want more than you need. It's called greed, it's an ugly word but it is the heart of capitalism. Capitalism has little to do with need as the reason for gathering wealth. You gather wealth for the purpose of gathering more wealth. There is no end to it. You just keep going after more. And the Fed appears to be in the way, to some, so they go after the Fed to clear the way for them to have more.

That's not my fight. Not my game. If there is a responsible plan to shift this control from the Fed to another group of people, or to reign in the Fed as it exist, fine. But don't go upsetting the apple cart for the huge number of us who don't have a stake in the game. There are a lot of people who are happy to just have what we need. Don't turn our world upside down for the sake of a greedy power struggle at the top.

Well I'd say you're partially correct, but I think you're putting too much into the audit bill. Auditing the Fed is simply trying to find out exactly what it is they're doing. I think you're more or less talking about abolishing the Fed. If the Fed were abolished you're correct that its duties would go to someone else, which under the Constitution would be the Congress. However, at least at that point it's in the hands of people we actually elect, that way if we don't like the monetary policy they're pushing we can attempt to vote them out. Ideally, at least in my opinion, we would get rid of the Federal Reserve and allow the market to set interest rates, return to sound money, and get the government out of the economy all together.

I also think you've got a fairly pessimistic view of why some of us are against the Federal Reserve. I can't speak for everyone, but Ron Paul and the Austrian economists want to abolish the Fed, and all central economic planning, because it creates the boom-and-bust cycle by manipulating interest rates.

Kevin, I would guess that your concern about boom and bust cycles and interest rates stems from your own desire to collect interest and grow money with money. You're wanting a shot at doing what the Fed does AND you want the same predictability that the Fed has about it's wealth. You'd like to be able to see things more clearly because you feel it would be fair if you too could use the information of money supply and interest rates to your advantage. You're a market guy, concerned with growing wealth in the market. Am I right?

Your drive is the same as the Feds drive. You'd be the new boss, given the chance.

That's fine by me. Doesn't bother me in the least. I do suspect that most who are after the Fed though, are in it for the same reason. They feel they stand a better chance at creating more wealth with the Fed out of the way. The market would be more predictable and comfortable for gathering wealth.

Go for it. But it's not my fight.

And any assertion that I am the greedy one in this equation is utter bullshit. My only concern is that I lose what I NEED. Not of any wealth presently or prosects of in the future. I do not fault anyone for struggling towards wealth, for wanting more than they have, for wanting to clear the road for a better shot at having more. Just don't expect me to join you, as if that is every mans struggle. And if I suspect you may compromise my ability to acquire the meager things I NEED in your struggle to advance wealth, I very well may be content with the thugs presently in control. The transition of this power and wealth would affect us little people more than either group of thugs. And we stand to gain nothing, as we seek nothing from the fray.

 

[sealybobo]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

I would suppose that the Fed provided that cash to banks through the back door. The system is bloated with the results of fractional reserve banking. There is no cash to represent the electronic credits on record. They had to stop a run last September that was hours away from crashing the world economy. We're closer to the edge than I think most realize.

It will tumble, sooner or later, no need to hasten it. A crash in this day would make the depression look like a trip to Disney Land.

 

[Toro]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

 

[Sweet Willy]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

The Fed is liable for that $9 trillion, or any portion thereof, upon demand by the creditors. Of course, the Fed hopes to never actually pay out that money. It's the back door to the bank, just like you are the back door to your buddies car loan.

 

[sealybobo]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

What? Did they loan it out? Then they spent it. If it isn't sitting in their vaults, then they "spent" it.

And you don't know when they'll get it back, if they'll get it back or who they gave it to, because they won't tell you.

It might cause a run on those banks.

But they'll ask for permission to loan out $700 billion so it will make the Democrats look bad but they'll stay hush hush on $9 trillion?

And you're buying that?

Dumbest person on USMB award goes to TORO!!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Remind everyone that the Federal Reserve spent $9 trillion, nearly doubled the debt, in just 8 months.

One Penny Sheet » Federal Reserve Cannot Account for $9 Trillion video

Meanwhile the masses are crying over $700 billion in tarp and $700 billion stimulus.

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

The Fed is liable for that $9 trillion, or any portion thereof, upon demand by the creditors. Of course, the Fed hopes to never actually pay out that money. It's the back door to the bank, just like you are the back door to your buddies car loan.

The Fed is liable or the US tax payers are liable? Who owes the national debt? If this money vanashes to Dubai or Caymen or Switzerland, which men who own the Federal Reserve will be liable to pay it back out of their own personal bank accounts?

Where did all the money go? The bankers have all the toxic assets from all those bad loans, but money was made for 7 years straight. Where is all that money? Offshore? Arab Emerits?

You people are truly amazing.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

The Fed is liable for that $9 trillion, or any portion thereof, upon demand by the creditors. Of course, the Fed hopes to never actually pay out that money. It's the back door to the bank, just like you are the back door to your buddies car loan.

The Fed is liable or the US tax payers are liable? Who owes the national debt? If this money vanashes to Dubai or Caymen or Switzerland, which men who own the Federal Reserve will be liable to pay it back out of their own personal bank accounts?

Where did all the money go? The bankers have all the toxic assets from all those bad loans, but money was made for 7 years straight. Where is all that money? Offshore? Arab Emerits?

You people are truly amazing.

Maybe they secretly donated all that money to charity?

 

[Toro]

The Fed has not spent $9 trillion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/79386-the-fed-has-not-spent-9-trillion.html

The Fed is liable for that $9 trillion, or any portion thereof, upon demand by the creditors. Of course, the Fed hopes to never actually pay out that money. It's the back door to the bank, just like you are the back door to your buddies car loan.

The Fed is liable or the US tax payers are liable? Who owes the national debt? If this money vanashes to Dubai or Caymen or Switzerland, which men who own the Federal Reserve will be liable to pay it back out of their own personal bank accounts?

Where did all the money go? The bankers have all the toxic assets from all those bad loans, but money was made for 7 years straight. Where is all that money? Offshore? Arab Emerits?

You people are truly amazing.

You know what's amazing? People who comment about things they know absolutely nothing about.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I don't object, I just don't have any reason to get behind it. If it's not the Fed manipulating and controlling our money supply, collecting interest on loans, taking financial leverage against the populace, it will surely be someone else. And that someone is among the people most interested in getting at the Fed. They aren't after the Fed for some noble cause of leveling the field and helping people in need. No, they are capitalist with similar aspirations as the people who were crafty enough to corner control of the wealth before them. These people aren't in need, they just want more. And that's fine. It's Ok to want more than you need. It's called greed, it's an ugly word but it is the heart of capitalism. Capitalism has little to do with need as the reason for gathering wealth. You gather wealth for the purpose of gathering more wealth. There is no end to it. You just keep going after more. And the Fed appears to be in the way, to some, so they go after the Fed to clear the way for them to have more.

That's not my fight. Not my game. If there is a responsible plan to shift this control from the Fed to another group of people, or to reign in the Fed as it exist, fine. But don't go upsetting the apple cart for the huge number of us who don't have a stake in the game. There are a lot of people who are happy to just have what we need. Don't turn our world upside down for the sake of a greedy power struggle at the top.

Well I'd say you're partially correct, but I think you're putting too much into the audit bill. Auditing the Fed is simply trying to find out exactly what it is they're doing. I think you're more or less talking about abolishing the Fed. If the Fed were abolished you're correct that its duties would go to someone else, which under the Constitution would be the Congress. However, at least at that point it's in the hands of people we actually elect, that way if we don't like the monetary policy they're pushing we can attempt to vote them out. Ideally, at least in my opinion, we would get rid of the Federal Reserve and allow the market to set interest rates, return to sound money, and get the government out of the economy all together.

I also think you've got a fairly pessimistic view of why some of us are against the Federal Reserve. I can't speak for everyone, but Ron Paul and the Austrian economists want to abolish the Fed, and all central economic planning, because it creates the boom-and-bust cycle by manipulating interest rates.

Kevin, I would guess that your concern about boom and bust cycles and interest rates stems from your own desire to collect interest and grow money with money. You're wanting a shot at doing what the Fed does AND you want the same predictability that the Fed has about it's wealth. You'd like to be able to see things more clearly because you feel it would be fair if you too could use the information of money supply and interest rates to your advantage. You're a market guy, concerned with growing wealth in the market. Am I right?

Your drive is the same as the Feds drive. You'd be the new boss, given the chance.

That's fine by me. Doesn't bother me in the least. I do suspect that most who are after the Fed though, are in it for the same reason. They feel they stand a better chance at creating more wealth with the Fed out of the way. The market would be more predictable and comfortable for gathering wealth.

Go for it. But it's not my fight.

And any assertion that I am the greedy one in this equation is utter bullshit. My only concern is that I lose what I NEED. Not of any wealth presently or prosects of in the future. I do not fault anyone for struggling towards wealth, for wanting more than they have, for wanting to clear the road for a better shot at having more. Just don't expect me to join you, as if that is every mans struggle. And if I suspect you may compromise my ability to acquire the meager things I NEED in your struggle to advance wealth, I very well may be content with the thugs presently in control. The transition of this power and wealth would affect us little people more than either group of thugs. And we stand to gain nothing, as we seek nothing from the fray.

I am a free market guy, and since the Federal Reserve couldn't exist in a free market I'm opposed to it and anything like it. I don't want the powers that the Federal Reserve has because I couldn't do any better than Greenspan or Bernanke, I want the market itself to naturally set interest rates and sound money to protect the value of the currency. I'm concerned about the boom-and-bust cycle and interest rates because that's the problem with the Federal Reserve. They artificially set interest rates low and set up the boom period, which seems great. However, the bust inevitably comes because the market must correct itself of all the malinvestment. That's the recession.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Well I'd say you're partially correct, but I think you're putting too much into the audit bill. Auditing the Fed is simply trying to find out exactly what it is they're doing. I think you're more or less talking about abolishing the Fed. If the Fed were abolished you're correct that its duties would go to someone else, which under the Constitution would be the Congress. However, at least at that point it's in the hands of people we actually elect, that way if we don't like the monetary policy they're pushing we can attempt to vote them out. Ideally, at least in my opinion, we would get rid of the Federal Reserve and allow the market to set interest rates, return to sound money, and get the government out of the economy all together.

I also think you've got a fairly pessimistic view of why some of us are against the Federal Reserve. I can't speak for everyone, but Ron Paul and the Austrian economists want to abolish the Fed, and all central economic planning, because it creates the boom-and-bust cycle by manipulating interest rates.

Kevin, I would guess that your concern about boom and bust cycles and interest rates stems from your own desire to collect interest and grow money with money. You're wanting a shot at doing what the Fed does AND you want the same predictability that the Fed has about it's wealth. You'd like to be able to see things more clearly because you feel it would be fair if you too could use the information of money supply and interest rates to your advantage. You're a market guy, concerned with growing wealth in the market. Am I right?

Your drive is the same as the Feds drive. You'd be the new boss, given the chance.

That's fine by me. Doesn't bother me in the least. I do suspect that most who are after the Fed though, are in it for the same reason. They feel they stand a better chance at creating more wealth with the Fed out of the way. The market would be more predictable and comfortable for gathering wealth.

Go for it. But it's not my fight.

And any assertion that I am the greedy one in this equation is utter bullshit. My only concern is that I lose what I NEED. Not of any wealth presently or prosects of in the future. I do not fault anyone for struggling towards wealth, for wanting more than they have, for wanting to clear the road for a better shot at having more. Just don't expect me to join you, as if that is every mans struggle. And if I suspect you may compromise my ability to acquire the meager things I NEED in your struggle to advance wealth, I very well may be content with the thugs presently in control. The transition of this power and wealth would affect us little people more than either group of thugs. And we stand to gain nothing, as we seek nothing from the fray.

I am a free market guy, and since the Federal Reserve couldn't exist in a free market I'm opposed to it and anything like it. I don't want the powers that the Federal Reserve has because I couldn't do any better than Greenspan or Bernanke, I want the market itself to naturally set interest rates and sound money to protect the value of the currency. I'm concerned about the boom-and-bust cycle and interest rates because that's the problem with the Federal Reserve. They artificially set interest rates low and set up the boom period, which seems great. However, the bust inevitably comes because the market must correct itself of all the malinvestment. That's the recession.

Fair enough.

 

[Paulie]

wow, with 244 co-sponsors, this should pass easily

You could at least acknowledge Paul for not only having the balls to author the legislation, but also for getting half of congress on board as well.

He's not all that bad, you know. Maybe he isn't your kind of president, but he's a damn fine legislator.