Ron Paul

[BaronVonBigmeat]

and your point is to smear Arnold? I don't have a problem with that, however it has zip to do with anything I've posted. Go for it Baron, if it floats your boat!

Just for kicks, I did a search for "arnold nazi". Remember this thread?

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=46613&page=2&highlight=arnold+nazi

Here is a very good video which shows FACTUAL EVIDENCE that the BUSH family has plans to make America into a Communist type state and it also goes into detail about the Bush family's ties to Nazi Communists during World War 2.

It also get's into Arnold Schwarzenegger's ties to Nazis as well.

Just click on the link below to watch the video:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?rurl=www.barremore.net&oid=ba1aae94f5f47542&

and what did your maternal great grandfather do?

Oh there is much more to the video than that Kathianne. lol. Much more.

uh huh.

So let's recap.

Someone presents much better pro-Nazi evidence against a republican who would never rock the establishment warfare-state boat too much, certainly on not on foreign policy issues. (if Arnold is a peace and neutrality kind of guy and I missed it, please correct me).

Your response? "Yawn".

Then someone presents a photograph of Ron Paul--a man whose ideas about foreign policy are radically different than yours--standing next to some guy at a photo-op, an event where politicians take pictures with anyone who walks up.

Then, some white supremacist claims that he and RP and Pat Buchanan meet regularly over dinner, to discuss white nationalist issues. White supremacists, meeting at an ethnic restaurant. A public restaurant, where anyone could overhear the conversation, and/or take pictures. All that risk so that RP could win over the .01% of the population that holds Nazi views. And he "proves" it by posting a link that anyone could look up and make a fictional story about.

Your response? RAWRRR THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

 

[eots]

hows this for a outrage


Racist Smears Against Ron Paul Exposed
Establishment finds no skeletons in Congressman's closet, resorts to crass guilt by association smear

Prison Planet | December 21, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Peddlers of American Nazi Party leader Bill White's ridiculous claim that Ron Paul is a white supremacist have unwittingly exposed themselves as Israeli propagandists, after a keen-eyed Mike Rivero over at WhatReallyHappened.com spotted the icon for "Megaphone," an Israeli government supported PR front, on one of their screenshots.

The image appeared on a screen capture which was posted on several messageboards by one of White's bloggers who was attempting to prove the validity of White's claim by showing it had originated directly from his neo-nazi Stormfront website.

In his zeal to push White's lies, the blogger unwittingly exposed himself as a member of an Israeli-government backed propaganda network.

(Article Continues Below)According to Wikipedia , "The Megaphone desktop tool is a Microsoft Windows application distributed by the World Union of Jewish Students and other pro-Israel organizations, through the Giyus.org website. Released on July 19, 2006, it delivers real-time alerts about key articles, videos, blogs, and surveys to subscribers so that they can voice their opinions and work together to support Israel on the public opinion front."

The Israeli government itself has urged users to "become cyberspace soldiers in the new battleground for Israel's image," by using the Megaphone tool.

UK technology website The Register has described use of the software as "highly organised mass manipulation of technologies which are supposed to be democratising" and slammed Megaphone as "effectively a high-tech exercise in ballot-stuffing".


White's claim about Ron Paul's "extensive involvement in white nationalism" is patently ridiculous in itself.

As Rivero points out , "Now, one might suppose that the American Nazi party would be happy to have a candidate who shares their views, and one might assume that Bill White is smart enough to know that making such a public accusation is going to be quite harmful to the candidate he claims shares his philosophy. Indeed it does appear that Bill White's accusation is intended to cause as much harm to Ron Paul as possible."

As is strikingly obvious, Bill White's spurious claim is the latest salvo in a desperate attempt on behalf of the establishment to smear Ron Paul as a fascist racist sympathizer.

Since the Congressman is as clean as a whistle and unlike Romney, Huckabee and Giuliani has no skeletons in the closet, the establishment are forced to resort to the dirtiest trick in the book - guilt by association.

Nowhere was this more evident than an Associated Press headline yesterday - Paul Keeps White Supremacist Donation - a blatant slur designed to scare off undecided voters from researching further into what the Congressman actually stands for.

I'm sure the media could dig up all kinds of monsters who have given hefty sums to Romney and Giuliani and then tar them with the same brush but you'll never see it happen, because as Salon writer Glenn Greenwald points out , the establishment have launched a vicious assault on Ron Paul.

How about the Neo-Cons who advocate ethnically cleansing the middle east and making Bush dictator of the world? Who have they donated to? Romney Keeps Donation From Fascist Ethnic Cleansing Advocate - will AP carry that story?

How about Stu Bykovsky, the Philadelphia Inquirer writer who called for a new 9/11 to reinvigorate support for Republicans - who did he donate to and why isn't the media interested in finding out? Giuliani Keeps Donation From Writer Who Yearned For New 9/11 is a headline we'll never see.

How about talking to those putrid Neo-Cons who went on the National Review's annual cruise this past summer - you know, the people who like to share their belief that anyone who protests against Bush be executed in gas chambers - who did they donate to? McCain? Huckabee?

The media won't find out and they won't be issuing any ad hominem smear headlines against any of the establishment candidates because they know on which side their bread is buttered.

 

[Annie]

I thought we were discussing Ron's responses, not mine. Do I really have to prove Ron Paul to you?

If Russert doesn't touch on the Stormfront issue, will you personally email the campaign with that concern?

I don't expect Russert will directly touch on Stormfront, I do hope he brings up the donation again, as it made the MSM this week.

Actually at this point, the only way I would change my thinking towards Ron Paul is if he came out and said he repudiates the ideas of groups like Stormfront, his campaign would make a good faith effort to refund any donations from members of such groups, there is no place in his campaign for people that hate through associations.

Of course no candidates can know what lurks in the hearts and minds of their supporters, but if one joins the KKK and hangs with those that do, one can make a reasonable leap of logic of what that person believes.

"Show me who your friends are and I'll show you what you are."

 

[Annie]

Just for kicks, I did a search for "arnold nazi". Remember this thread?

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=46613&page=2&highlight=arnold+nazi









So let's recap.

Someone presents much better pro-Nazi evidence against a republican who would never rock the establishment warfare-state boat too much, certainly on not on foreign policy issues. (if Arnold is a peace and neutrality kind of guy and I missed it, please correct me).

Your response? "Yawn".

Then someone presents a photograph of Ron Paul--a man whose ideas about foreign policy are radically different than yours--standing next to some guy at a photo-op, an event where politicians take pictures with anyone who walks up.

Then, some white supremacist claims that he and RP and Pat Buchanan meet regularly over dinner, to discuss white nationalist issues. White supremacists, meeting at an ethnic restaurant. A public restaurant, where anyone could overhear the conversation, and/or take pictures. All that risk so that RP could win over the .01% of the population that holds Nazi views. And he "proves" it by posting a link that anyone could look up and make a fictional story about.

Your response? RAWRRR THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

Nope, a quick google search will show that there was coverage of the 'nazi problem' in the MSM. Again, holding someone responsible for their ancestors, in another country at another time, strikes me as wrong.

Hey, while I'm not into liking Robert Byrd, his association and later repudiation of the KKK has been recognized. When bringing up HIS past one is doing it sorely for political reasons.

Ron Paul's problem is his continuing association with such-like in September and November with groups KNOWN for hate. Then the disclaimer that he's doing good by taking their money. Gag me. Again Baron, you want the whole thing to be dismissed as a symphony of coincidences and conspiracies against RP. You willingly ignore the 'memory hole' of his newsletters, which existed for years on the internet, until less than a year ago. Questioned about the few that had been 'cached' he said he never read it, a secretary must have written it, he just signed off without reading. You really have a high threshold for believing this guy is just a perfect Libertarian running as a Republican.

 

[eots]

I don't expect Russert will directly touch on Stormfront, I do hope he brings up the donation again, as it made the MSM this week.

Actually at this point, the only way I would change my thinking towards Ron Paul is if he came out and said he repudiates the ideas of groups like Stormfront, his campaign would make a good faith effort to refund any donations from members of such groups, there is no place in his campaign for people that hate through associations.

Of course no candidates can know what lurks in the hearts and minds of their supporters, but if one joins the KKK and hangs with those that do, one can make a reasonable leap of logic of what that person believes.

"Show me who your friends are and I'll show you what you are."

you mean like bush Jr and Sr and the house of Saud , the bin ladens and skull and bones.? or his grandfather and the Nazis ?

 

[Annie]

you mean like bush Jr and Sr and the house of Saud , the bin ladens and skull and bones.? or his grandfather and the Nazis ?

One chooses one's friends, we don't get to pick family.

 

[eots]

One chooses one's friends, we don't get to pick family.

thats correct Prescott chose to befriend the Nazis while bush Jr and Sr
chose to swear allegiance to the skull and bones and chum around with the Saud's and bin ladens

 

[Annie]

As for there being 'doubt' that he knows who his largest group of supporters are, the video and the applause that follows his calling out of 'Republicans', 'Democrats' and some 'Anarchists', well you can hear. Is the video unbiased, no, but it covers Paul's appearance in Philadelphia where he raised more than 2million dollars:

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[Paulie]

Wow, you can't possibly think that video is good enough to shed some kind of evil light over paul?

First of all, I was THERE, and in the first 3 minutes of that video, I counted at least 3 or 4 lies. Spinning the Veteran's Seating section as not being for handicapped, was ridiculous. We walked into that area by accident, not seeing that it was priority seating, and they said "Go ahead and sit down, it's ok!" . Now maybe it was because we had our 4 year old daughter, and 4 month old son with us in his stroller, but that still goes to show that they were hospitable to more than just veterans in that section.

There were BARELY any skinheads there out of the thousands in attendance. I walked all around it just to see the diversity. This was the only RP event I've been to where he was present, but I've never seen such a friendly group of people. Everyone was friendly with each other, because they all shared the same common interest: Ron Paul. It was empowering, unifying, and reminded me of what this country OUGHT to be about. I remember the "Death to the New World Order" guy. He was walking all around the place, with a camera guy following him. Maybe it was THIS camera guy who filmed this? I find it odd, because he was the only one who was there toting a conspiracy theory. I see a setup here after watching this.

As far as the "only 3 blacks in the audience", oh my god, that's probably the BIGGEST of the lies. There were blacks, asians, orthodox jews, they were everywhere. In fact, the lady going around and officially collecting NJ/PA/DE people to sign the ballot petition to include Ron Paul, was a black woman dressed as the statue of liberty.

Now, this is about the worst of what I saw, and I stopped about halfway through. I couldn't watch anymore after that, it just made me sick. Too much lying. If you want to make a hit piece on RP, at least tell the fucking truth.

Kath, this was a disgrace. I know you weren't there, so you don't know what is truth and what is lie, but this video is full of lies.

 

[Annie]

...

Kath, this was a disgrace. I know you weren't there, so you don't know what is truth and what is lie, but this video is full of lies.

I posted what I cued in on, even said the video was biased. Notice which 'political groups' got the loudest applause, THAT WAS MY POINT. It was the Republicans, Democrats, it was the 'anarchists.'

 

[William Joyce]

A few posts back, there is a screen shot of a post by one "Bill White" making various claims. Everyone should know that "Bill White" has less credibility in the world of white advocacy than Paul Wolfowitz at a peace rally. He is certifiable. He began his life as a "radical communist" or something and now runs around wearing a Nazi outfit and claiming to be a neo-Nazi. So, taking his word for anything is a pretty bad idea.

The notorious SPLC even admits this guy isn't exactly a consistent pro-white person:

The Gossip
William A. White, 26 | SILVER SPRING, Md.

Not many on the American radical right started out on the American radical left, but that is precisely what Bill White did. As recently as 1998, the man who is today the Matt Drudge of the extreme right &#8212; an ebullient Internet gossip who is sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always self-important &#8212; was an anarchist who promoted drugs, homosexuality, bombs and violent anti-racism.

Today, he runs the overthrow.com Web site and its "Libertarian Socialist News" service, which is the second most popular racist site on the Internet after Stormfront (and is violently opposed to homosexuals and Jews, among others).

White got interested in politics early, becoming a "utopian anarchist" in junior high school, reading Freud and Marx at age 13, and putting out his first issue of the Utopian Anarchist Party (its symbol was a black fist on a red background) newsletter the next year. Among other things, he railed against juvenile psychiatry, writing later that he had been subjected to a series of psychiatric tests as a youth in which he routinely scored high for paranoia and aggressiveness.

 

[Paulie]

A few posts back, there is a screen shot of a post by one "Bill White" making various claims. Everyone should know that "Bill White" has less credibility in the world of white advocacy than Paul Wolfowitz at a peace rally. He is certifiable. He began his life as a "radical communist" or something and now runs around wearing a Nazi outfit and claiming to be a neo-Nazi. So, taking his word for anything is a pretty bad idea.

The notorious SPLC even admits this guy isn't exactly a consistent pro-white person:

The Gossip
William A. White, 26 | SILVER SPRING, Md.

Not many on the American radical right started out on the American radical left, but that is precisely what Bill White did. As recently as 1998, the man who is today the Matt Drudge of the extreme right — an ebullient Internet gossip who is sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always self-important — was an anarchist who promoted drugs, homosexuality, bombs and violent anti-racism.

Today, he runs the overthrow.com Web site and its "Libertarian Socialist News" service, which is the second most popular racist site on the Internet after Stormfront (and is violently opposed to homosexuals and Jews, among others).

White got interested in politics early, becoming a "utopian anarchist" in junior high school, reading Freud and Marx at age 13, and putting out his first issue of the Utopian Anarchist Party (its symbol was a black fist on a red background) newsletter the next year. Among other things, he railed against juvenile psychiatry, writing later that he had been subjected to a series of psychiatric tests as a youth in which he routinely scored high for paranoia and aggressiveness.

Joyce, thanks for making this post. I knew there was something I forgot to add back when I made my post that refuted all this shit. Joyce is right Kathianne, even if you were to browse that thread he made that claim on, you'd see his own people calling him out. He doesn't have the credibility to be taken seriously. And why should someone like him be given the benefit of the doubt, anyway?

 

[Paulie]

I posted what I cued in on, even said the video was biased. Notice which 'political groups' got the loudest applause, THAT WAS MY POINT. It was the Republicans, Democrats, it was the 'anarchists.'

I was far back from the stage, and when he said 'anarchists' there was a small, localized applause somewhere up near the stage.

The camera guy recording this was NEAR that applause, and it sounded as if it was everyone. Nobody anywhere near me was cheering about Anarchy.

Is this just another example of you not liking him for his supporters? I mean, Anarchism isn't exactly RP's ideology. But once again, there are some supporters that are Anarchists, and that somehow ruins Paul's image in your eyes.

I don't really know what to tell you Kath. It's called Libertarianism. You accept everyone for who they are, and don't make them accountable for what they believe in. They are free to believe whatever they want, and who is Ron Paul to tell them they can't, or shouldn't?

You'll never like RP, and you know it. Why are you spending so much time on him, then? Why don't you just go out and help canvass for your candidate? Who is it, Fred? Go join a Fred meetup or something. Do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, instead of what amounts to WASTING it, by continually researching a man you'd never vote for anyway. I don't get it.

Do you really think RP has a shot to win, or something?

 

[William Joyce]

Some pundit's take on Ron Paul and Stormfront money:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_pauls_thoughtprovoking_cho.html

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Nope, a quick google search will show that there was coverage of the 'nazi problem' in the MSM. Again, holding someone responsible for their ancestors, in another country at another time, strikes me as wrong.

You're right, it is wrong to blame someone for the beliefs of their parents. Arnold has no control over who his father was or what he did. However, the movie in that thread was alleging a lot more than that, as nuclearwinter pointed out. But Arnold's beliefs are in line with yours, so you weren't interested in even hearing the case against him.

I don't know if the claims made in that movie or here are valid or not. They certainly sound more credible than a picture of RP standing next to some guy he doesn't know at a photo-op, and the allegations of some Nazi nut on the internet who made up a story that anyone could have made up.

Ron Paul's problem is his continuing association with such-like in September and November with groups KNOWN for hate.

Which ones?

Again Baron, you want the whole thing to be dismissed as a symphony of coincidences and conspiracies against RP.

"Symphony"? More like an out-of-tune trio that can barely play their instruments.

You willingly ignore the 'memory hole' of his newsletters, which existed for years on the internet, until less than a year ago. Questioned about the few that had been 'cached' he said he never read it, a secretary must have written it, he just signed off without reading. You really have a high threshold for believing this guy is just a perfect Libertarian running as a Republican.

The newsletter was ghostwritten by an aide who was fired. He should have screened his people better, and/or proofread his letters before letting them go out.

I posted what I cued in on, even said the video was biased. Notice which 'political groups' got the loudest applause, THAT WAS MY POINT. It was the Republicans, Democrats, it was the 'anarchists.'

And? What is your point, exactly? This video was the most laughable rubbish you've posted yet, and all of the snarky captions that popped up were criticizing conservative voting positions.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Oh hey, look what I found. (Scanned images provided at the link below.)

Look, this business about Ron Paul meeting with white supremacists at the Tara Thai restaurant of Arlington, Virginia on Wednesdays is an empirically testable assertion. And it had better be tested, too, because this is a White Supremacist making the allegations, and pretty much by definition a White Supremacist has a tenuous grip on reality. Don&#8217;t believe a White Supremacist without confirmation from a non-loon source.

But for the assertion to be true, Ron Paul would have had to have attended the Tara Thai restaurant on some Wednesdays. We know that in the aggregate, the following expenses were charged by quarter to the Ron Paul campaign:

1st Quarter 2007: $39.14
2nd Quarter 2007: $143.70
3rd Quarter 2007: $314.59

But the aggregate is not enough, because a lot of people go to the Tara Thai restaurant who are not white supremacists. This is where Federal Election Commission Images come in, because they are itemized. Did the Ron Paul campaign eat at the Tara Thai on Wednesdays, or were these expenditures made on other days of the week? There are 4302 pages in Ron Paul&#8217;s report in the 3rd Quarter of 2007 alone, and in those I&#8217;ve found seven images of Tara Thai restaurant expenses.

Here&#8217;s the first relevant FEC image:

June 18, 2007 is a Monday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the White Supremacist claim.

Here&#8217;s the second relevant FEC image:

July 3, 2007 is a Tuesday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the White Supremacist claim.

Here&#8217;s a third relevant FEC image:

July 24, 2007 is a Tuesday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the White Supremacist claim.

Here is a fourth relevant FEC image:

July 19, 2007 is a Thursday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the claim that Ron Paul went to Tara Thai for regular White Supremacist Wednesday meetings.

Here&#8217;s a fifth relevant FEC image:

July 16, 2007 is a Monday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the claim that Ron Paul went to Tara Thai for regular White Supremacist Wednesday meetings.

Here is a sixth relevant FEC image:

August 1, 2007 IS a Wednesday, the day of the week on which White Supremacists purportedly meet at the Tara Thai restaurant.

Here is the seventh relevant FEC image:

September 9, 2007 is a Sunday, not a Wednesday. This expenditure is not in alignment with the White Supremacist claim.

The expenditure of August 1, 2007 is just one in seven days for which the Tara Thai expense lies on a Wednesday, which is just what you&#8217;d expect by chance. I suppose you could come up with a story in which these expenditures registered on different dates than the actual dinners, but for the ones on the early days of the week you&#8217;d have to have a hefty delay, and besides, in these days of electronic banking same-date filings are the rule, not the exception. Even if that kind of supposition invoked possibilities, they&#8217;d only be possibilities, arguments about why the lack of support for the Ron-Paul-meeting-with-Supremacist assertion could maybe be invalid, sort of. That&#8217;s not a basis on which to say that these meetings actually occurred. Sorry, Bill White, but we&#8217;re going to have to have more evidence than that. Finding out that a white supremacist meeting occurred specifically on August 1, 2007 might be a start.

Update: Looks like Tara Thai is around the corner from an office the Ron Paul campaign rents. Apply Occam&#8217;s Razor, and the late-night-take-out theory wins over the secret-meetings-with-white-supremacists theory.

Source

 

[Paulie]

Baron, THAT, coupled with the restaurant in DC called "Sala Thai" which has been getting confused with the Tara Thai lately, where from what I've been researching, is where the WN's go.

It's completely possible that this whole thing may just be a very inconvenient mix up. The only solid thing anyone has to keep linking Ron to WNism, are the papers from a couple years ago that Ron says he only signed off on, not wrote.

Everything so far that is supposedly evidence, is weak. If you can make the argument that there isn't sufficient solid evidence that the Bush admin has committed crimes, then the same can be said for this RP/Stormfront issue.

 

[Annie]

Joyce, thanks for making this post. I knew there was something I forgot to add back when I made my post that refuted all this shit. Joyce is right Kathianne, even if you were to browse that thread he made that claim on, you'd see his own people calling him out. He doesn't have the credibility to be taken seriously. And why should someone like him be given the benefit of the doubt, anyway?

Actually you didn't leave him out. You also did NOT refute 'all this shit.'

 

[Annie]

Oh hey, look what I found. (Scanned images provided at the link below.)



Source

already done, yawn.

 

[Annie]

Baron, THAT, coupled with the restaurant in DC called "Sala Thai" which has been getting confused with the Tara Thai lately, where from what I've been researching, is where the WN's go.

It's completely possible that this whole thing may just be a very inconvenient mix up. The only solid thing anyone has to keep linking Ron to WNism, are the papers from a couple years ago that Ron says he only signed off on, not wrote.

Everything so far that is supposedly evidence, is weak. If you can make the argument that there isn't sufficient solid evidence that the Bush admin has committed crimes, then the same can be said for this RP/Stormfront issue.

Here's what you refuse to understand, which I think Paul does too. It would be 'nothing' if he distanced himself from the groups and returned those donations that could be identified with members of those organizations. But he won't, so the problems will continue.

Vote for whom you like, I have as much right to research and post what I'm interested in, but thanks for your attempt to marshall my time.