Ron Paul On National ID...

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Doesn't matter, you simply want to make it easier for them to use anything and everything against us.

The ignorant are lambs to the slaughter.

Like I said when the Patriot Act was being debated... we may not have to worry about the government in charge today, it is the one that comes along tomorrow that scares the shit out of me.

I do not want them tracking every purchase I make even though I have no intention of purchasing anything illegal. I do not want them to have the ability to track what movies I see, what books I read/check out of the library, what my favorite candy bar is etc. etc. etc.

With a cell phone they have to be monitoring me for some reason, which I wish would require a warrant but it doesn't. With this national id card they could store every single purchase I ever made and keep it for decades then when some prick in power gets pissed off at me because I flipped him the bird when he cut me off, he can go into the database and make my life hell. That is what this National ID can and will lead to.

Immie

Even George Orwell couldn't have dreamed all this up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They ask in the context of an otherwise legal stop.

Which is reasonable suspicion per Terry. My post concerned absent any PC or RS.

Believe it or not ICE routinely asks people to prove their citizenship within 50 miles of the border. They do this without any probable cause, exigent circumstances, or anything else than a desire to hassle people.

1070 doesn’t address Federal agents, neither did my post.



1070 doesn’t address LPRAs, neither did my post.

Most illegals get flustered and try to lie about it, which is how they get caught.

That could constitute PC or RS, again, not addressed in my post.

The Arizona law would simply have allowed police to ask for proof of citizenship after they were engaged in some type of contact that was legally initiated, which actually affords people a higher level of protection than federal law gives them.

Which wasn’t at issue in my post.

And yet again: absent any probable cause or reasonable suspicion, what would Constitutionally occasion an agent of the state to ask for ID.

You clearly did not understand my post.

You asked what gave police the right to ask about immigration status. The only people protected from being asked that question are citizens, and simply asking them does not violate that protection, therefore your question is moot. I simply explained that in more detail than I used here. Then I pointed out that the Arizona law requires police to already have lawful contact of some type before they actually ask.

You clearly are so stupid you do not understand anything, which might explain why no one understands your posts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A national ID makes sense for the country.

Developing a biometric ID that can't be faked will reduce ID theft and illegal immigration. It would also allow you to carry one card with you that would serve as Drivers License, Credit Card, SS Card,Medical ID. Bank Card and any other card you now carry

You already carry an ID card....why not an effective one?

Yeah, because nobody will ever figure out how to hack those, right?

Many current state IDs are difficult to hack. Add facial recognition parameters, fingerprint map or DNA and it becomes impossible. The data is not on the card itself but a centralized database

And the database is hackable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Another reason why I have no use for Dr. Paul or Libertarians in general. Some form of tamper-proof identification IS necessary if we're going to fix the problems in this country. They cannot be dealt with if that is not a part of the solution. Obviously Dr. Paul and company are more interested in protecting illegal aliens and other criminals than they are the sovereignty of this nation.

There is no such thing as tamper proof, therefore there is no need for a tamper proof ID. Just imagine the headaches once your tamper proof ID is stolen and used by someone to commit a criminal act. The government is already quite willing to raid your home based on the fact someone who might have lived there almost tow years ago might have done something illegal, this would just give them more cause to do so.

Let's say your tamperproof ID is stolen Your first line of defense is your picture is on it. That can be doctored. Second line of defense is a personal pin. Third line of defense would be biometric data stored in a centralized data base. When you scan the card it only links to one set of biometric data

For most transactions picture and pin would be enough. For employment, passport, criminal matters....a biometric check may be required

It only protects you

You have this amazing concept of how hard it is to actually hack things. The data might be backed up in a central database, but the access to it is through that card. It takes about half a second to brute force a 4 digit pin code, that gets me past your second line of defense before I even walk into a store. Since I am now using your uncrackable government issued ID card to make purchases I have access to all you bank accounts, credit cards, and everything else. You are fucked.

E-Verify already makes it all but impossible for someone to steal your identity to get a job, so a National ID card is not needed to prevent that particular problem. All we have to do is require businesses to use E-Verify, which requires an applicant to answer specific questions about past work history and places where you lived.

 

[Polk]

Fox does realize we passed what is effectively a national ID law six years ago, right?

 

[smartdonkey]

Then why are all his rightwing buddies trying to force us to get IDs or else be denied the right to vote?

 

[Anachronism]

Then why are all his rightwing buddies trying to force us to get IDs or else be denied the right to vote?

Maybe because you damn well ought to be able to prove who you are and that you're a citizen of this country before we allow you to vote in an election?

 

[Flopper]

A national id card is inevitable. ??

Yep, we should rollover and play dead.

We must let the Gestapo control us.

Heil Hitler.

.

I'm not saying I favor a national id. I'm saying it will happen bit by bit. Right now, in many states, you can use enhanced drivers licences and other enhanced ids for border crossings in lieu of passports. In some places, drivers licences or state id's can be used to check out library books. States can and will use state ids or driver's licences as a welfare benefit card. Wait till the credit card companies figure out that a single id card that everyone would card could be used in place of a credit card.

 

[Immanuel]

You said it yourself, use the card like an ATM card which is a Debit Card. It will be attached directly to your checking account and your credit card(s). When you go to make a purchase you will tell it where the money is to come from "Debit/Credit" I see that on gas pumps all the time.

I had my bank remove the "debit card" feature from my ATM card. It CAN'T be used that way. I also requested that my Credit Card (I only have one) remove the "cash advance" feature from my account. I have never and will never use either of those features. I would have no problem with linking a bank account to the ID card, but in terms of using it as a credit/debit card, I would have a MAJOR problem with it.

I don't fear the government per se. I fear the men/women in the government who have their own agendas to push. When the Patriot Act was debated, I used to say just wait until Hillary Clinton becomes President and decides to do away with anyone and everyone associated with the Pro-life movement. Edit: I don't believe she would go that far any longer, but I used to believe she would.

Then what you need to work on changing is the type of people who are allowed to be involved in the governmental system. Good luck with that.

I note your "good luck with that" and that is the problem. We have way too many Truthdoesn'tmatters in the world today who can't think for themselves and will vote in the candidate that places the single character (D or R) behind their name.

The majority of the voters of this country have condemned us to the corruption of Washington because they won't think outside the party of their choice.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Doesn't matter, you simply want to make it easier for them to use anything and everything against us.

The ignorant are lambs to the slaughter.

Like I said when the Patriot Act was being debated... we may not have to worry about the government in charge today, it is the one that comes along tomorrow that scares the shit out of me.

I do not want them tracking every purchase I make even though I have no intention of purchasing anything illegal. I do not want them to have the ability to track what movies I see, what books I read/check out of the library, what my favorite candy bar is etc. etc. etc.

With a cell phone they have to be monitoring me for some reason, which I wish would require a warrant but it doesn't. With this national id card they could store every single purchase I ever made and keep it for decades then when some prick in power gets pissed off at me because I flipped him the bird when he cut me off, he can go into the database and make my life hell. That is what this National ID can and will lead to.

Immie

Even George Orwell couldn't have dreamed all this up.

Hehe,

I thought it was pretty good myself.

Immie

 

[Mr.Nick]

But I thought the right wanted people to have to carry papers to be able to participate in our democracy?

There is a difference between a national ID and a State ID dummy.

Yeah if you have no ID, you dont speak English, you cant even give a valid name or a social security number you should be fucking deported.

WTF...

 

[Anachronism]

I note your "good luck with that" and that is the problem. We have way too many Truthdoesn'tmatters in the world today who can't think for themselves and will vote in the candidate that places the single character (D or R) behind their name.

The majority of the voters of this country have condemned us to the corruption of Washington because they won't think outside the party of their choice.

Our politicians are a symptom of the real problem.... which is the American Voting Public and Citizenry.

We look at the limitations that the Founders placed on who could vote and fail to recognize that these limits were less about animous towards women and non-land owners and more a means of ensuring that only the QUALIFIED individuals were granted the opportunity to have a say in the governmental process. Land owning males tended to be the educated and informed portion of the citizenry in that day and age.

Over time we have opened up the voting rolls to a much wider variety of individuals. Obviously more of the public now has the ability to be educated and informed. However, these days most Americans are WILLFULLY Ignorant of the information necessary to make informed and educated selections in the voting process rather than simply ignorant as they were in the past. The information is available to these people and they simply choose to ignore it; which is a much greater "crime" in my mind than simply being ignorant in the first place.

That's why I've have suggested the need for a Constitutional Amendment to add a Voting Exam not only to get a voter registration card, but prior to each election in order to ensure that those individuals voting are in fact educated and informed on the offices, candidates, and questions they're voting on. I have suggested a 50 question, multiple choice exam which would be created by the local Registrar of Voters and approved by the heads of all parties on the ballot. All candidates on the ballot would be required to provide biographies, resumes, and voting records (if they hold or have held office) or policy/platform statements to the general public at no cost. These would be made available at the local post office, town hall, and library. Questions would be restricted to items contained in those documents and basic civics questions.

Some examples......

Scott Brown will be on your ballot. If he wins this election, when would he be up for re-election to that office next?

How many years is the term of the Governor of Massachusetts?

Anne Gobi has been a Massachusetts State Representative for how many years?

Stephen Brewer has been a vocal proponent of which of these stances on Gun Control?


All things that I would suggest any voter in my current town of residence ought to know before they walk into that voting booth in 2012 and cast a ballot.

 

[GHook93]

(1) National ID Card
(2) Border Fence
(3) 10 fold increase in Border Partolmen
(4) Federally Mandated eVerify System
(5) Switch Penalities on Employers, HR Personnell (much nice FCC fines radio personalities individually along with the radio station), landlords etc.
(6) All federal forms in English only!
(7) END BIRTH RIGHT CITIZENSHIP. The 14th amendment was to protect the children of the newly freed slaves, and not the children of illegal immigrates that are breaking the law.
(8) Have guest worker programs for needed industries like agriculture.
(9) Make arrests and deportatios, for traffic violations and at the hospitals.
(10) Not only take alway all federal funding to sanctuary cities, but penalize and fine citizens for sanctuary policies! That means you SF!
(11) End Welfare, Food Stamps, Section 8, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, Free Healthcare and Fee Education for illegals!
(11) Amnesty for some. The bar will be high. No blanket amnesty like the ill-conceived Dream Act. Rather, a high bar like must speak English fluently, have marketable skills, no criminal record, never affliated with separationist groups, supremacist groups, gangs or terrorist groups, never on public assistance, ability to pay for own healthcare, college education or highly skilled in other areas (business owner, construction worker etc).

Many illegal would leave if there are no jobs or housing! The drug dealing and mafiso ones will eventually get pickup by regular law enforcement. The Latino America immigrants who came here legally will be rewarded to for doing it the right way!