Ron Paul: Federal Response To Hurricane Unnecessary

[Sallow]

Bush. Katrina. Rocks!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

HE IS FUCKING SCARY.

What’s scary is he’s not alone.

Wait a minute. Oddball blames Ray Nagin and the local government for Katrina. Yet he somehow thinks the states alone are capable of dealing with responding to hurricanes and other disasters. Can someone tell me how that works?

Nagin is a democrat. Simple, really.

 

[oreo]

Katrina. That's the way conservatives deal.

1800 people dead..and they are like..IT'S YOUR FAULT NOT OURS!

Thanks, Ray Nagin!

Say it with me now.

FEMA

I know your idea of disaster recovery is running over people with your V8 Interceptor as you leave Dodge.

But some of us actually like it when people don't die.

People die when they ignore evacuation orders.

 

[Flopper]

People like Wal-Mart and Home Depot, who stepped in with tools and supplies after Katrina and Rita.

Wal Mart and Home Depot are not real people.

I was in Bogalusa a few days after the storm. The cops there told us some people were running out of food, diapers, etc. - and that they had plenty of money to buy those things - but couldn't - because the fucking WAL MART was closed

That being said...

Wal-Mart employees arrived so early in the disaster area that they often wound up running their own relief efforts. "If the federal government would have responded as quickly as Wal-Mart, we could have saved more lives," says Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee. "FEMA executives were there, but they didn't do anything. They weren't up and running for four or five days." In one case, he says, FEMA actually made things more difficult for the retailer. Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks with water to a FEMA compound. "Much to my dismay, FEMA turned them away," Lee says. "They said they didn't need it.... [Wal-Mart] ended up giving the water directly to us." A FEMA spokeswoman disputes Lee's account.

Harry Lee is telling the truth.

If I recall correctly, Wal Marts contributions in financial terms was more than 10 times higher than EXXONs - despite the fact Exxon is a more local company than Wal Mart. So fuck Exxon, go Wal Mart.

I'm no fan of Walmart but they really responded well to Katrina. Those tax write offs for charitable contribution and nationwide PR served their purpose.

 

[Flopper]

The cost would be huge for every state to have disaster plans, equipment, and specialized personnel to deal with:

Dam Failure
Earthquake
Fire or Wildfire
Flood
Hazardous Material
Heat
Hurricane
Landslide
Nuclear Power Plant Emergency
Terrorism
Thunderstorm
Tornado
Tsunami
Volcano
Wildfire
Winter Storm

Of course one state can coordinate with other states and various businesses but the problem is time. People are dying and the right resources have to be ready to move when the disaster strikes.

 

[Flopper]

I certainly respect the Red Cross. The Red Cross pardners with FEMA to supply the resources need at the places that their needed. Emergency management is not the result of one government agency alone. FEMA works with many government, non-profit and private sector agencies to assist the public in preparing for, responding to, and recovering from a disaster.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Strawman argument.

No, it’s right on point – you and others on the right are advocating that the Federal government provide no disaster relief, that it be left to the states and private non-profits, as it were the 19th Century. Indeed, it’s not an argument per se – but an illustration of the ridiculous, reactionary nature of your position.

 

[Lakhota]

5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution -- 'Cuddly' Libertarian Has Some Very Dark Politics | Tea Party and the Right | AlterNet

 

[rdean]

These new "fuck America first" Republicans are something else. With their Money Saving "Die quickly" health care plan. And their strategy to see every elderly American has "cat food".

And their rush to support the neediest Americans, the millionaires, is simply heartfelt. It's nice to see Americans who know where their priorities are.

 

[Lakhota]

These new "fuck America first" Republicans are something else.

I like that. The New Fuck America First Republicans.

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah...Like the federal gubmint is the model of efficiency and cost effectiveness.

Bloody comedic gold.

Believe it or not there are certain functions that should be done at the federal level. Centralization of certain functions save money. McDonald's would not have a dietitian a every restaurant. Likewise it makes no sense to duplicate a disaster recovery organization, which would be rarely used in every state.

Yet another strawman argument...Your opinion of what "should" be done at the federal level is irrelevant.

Is that your default rebuttal? You like to say it, but I'm not too sure you understand what it means.

 

[edjax1952]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is fallacious and irrelevant.

NOAA could be funded by any one of a number of private interests and/or coalition of the several states.

Try again.

You're funny. Not too bright, but funny none the less. But maybe I judge to harshly, I'm sure you have a business plan wherein a private company would do all that NASA & NOAA do and turn a nice profit.

Would you care to explain how?

If you check recent news, Nasa is being downgraded (as we speak) and now we are relying on private enterprises to provide us with our next space vehicle.

 

[edjax1952]

Something that was only mentioned in this thread once or twice is that The US Government has no money. We are Broke.

Rand paul stated that in his interview. "
"There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. We should be coordinated but coordinated voluntarily with the states," Paul told NBC News. "A state can decide. We don't need somebody in Washington."
He also eluded to the behavior of FEMA wanting to override the will of the soviergn states in that they are, by law, not to react without a request of the affected State.

When the Affected state does request assistance, it is not assistance that they recieve. FEMA moves in with the effect of martial law and "takes over".

During the Katrina disaster, FEMA proclaimed The Red Cross as the "officially designated" charity for relief efforts. Then The Red Cross came into municipalities and did not consult with those municipalities, but told them what they would recieve and where they would get it from. Some of those municipalities told The Red Cross to leave and called on The Salvation Army who provided needed relief as requested. many smaller non-profits tried to provide assiatance (I was involved with one of them) tried to give resources but because of the "martial law" nature of FEMA, had to go through days of red tape to even be considered as a source and then when they offered their assistance were told that their efforts were insignificant and that they should go away.

Also FEMA bought thousands of trailers that sat on lots, not used or allocated,until they were contaminated with mold and fungus and rendered usless. Those trailers are still being auctioned off in an attempt to recover some spent money.

FEMA has not got a good record of achieving the task.

Oh and did I mention that they are broke (have no money). I guess we will just put the expenses on the credit card, like many other benevolent government programs, and not worry about how we can recover the money until later.

 

[edjax1952]

Something that was only mentioned in this thread once or twice is that The US Government has no money. We are Broke.

Rand paul stated that in his interview. "
"There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. We should be coordinated but coordinated voluntarily with the states," Paul told NBC News. "A state can decide. We don't need somebody in Washington."
He also eluded to the behavior of FEMA wanting to override the will of the soviergn states in that they are, by law, not to react without a request of the affected State.

When the Affected state does request assistance, it is not assistance that they recieve. FEMA moves in with the effect of martial law and "takes over".

During the Katrina disaster, FEMA proclaimed The Red Cross as the "officially designated" charity for relief efforts. Then The Red Cross came into municipalities and did not consult with those municipalities, but told them what they would recieve and where they would get it from. Some of those municipalities told The Red Cross to leave and called on The Salvation Army who provided needed relief as requested. many smaller non-profits tried to provide assiatance (I was involved with one of them) tried to give resources but because of the "martial law" nature of FEMA, had to go through days of red tape to even be considered as a source and then when they offered their assistance were told that their efforts were insignificant and that they should go away.

Also FEMA bought thousands of trailers that sat on lots, not used or allocated,until they were contaminated with mold and fungus and rendered usless. Those trailers are still being auctioned off in an attempt to recover some spent money.

FEMA has not got a good record of achieving the task.

Oh and did I mention that they are broke (have no money). I guess we will just put the expenses on the credit card, like many other benevolent government programs, and not worry about how we can recover the money until later.

The Federal Government should:
Defend our borders from foriegn intrusion
provide an infrastructure to promote productivity
and offer a basic set of laws to prevent chaos

Any other functions should be considered out of the realm of Federal Government.

 

[editec]

Ron Paul thinks states don't need FEMA to help with natural disasters. I guess he should tell Rick Perry to give all of that money back. I don't understand why cons love this guy so much. He sounds like a loon to me.

First Read - Ron Paul: No FEMA response necessary

GILFORD, N.H. -- After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.
"We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960," Paul said. "I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.

Yeah, Paul, Galveston is in your district. And what happened in Galveston 100 or so years ago? A hurricane that killed thousands. Too bad we can't go back to the way things were in 1900, when thousands died because of a lack of emergency preparedness.

Silly idea, Ron.

Imagining that all our problems will be solved if we take the powers of the FED and put all that authority into state governments is a perfect example of conservatives' MAGICAL THINKING.

Does he imagine that STATE goverments are not also subject to the same nefarious forces that are screwing up our Federal government, or something?

Well he's dead wrong to imagine that.

As to shutting down FEMA?

Interstate cooperation in nature disasters makes good sense as natural disasters are not beholden to state lines.

 

[sparky]

Libertopia, where everyone has a bandaid in their back pocket......

 

[cutter]

No, there are no liberoidal goofballs defending Dr. Paul.

He is, however, exactly right in that there's no real need at all for FEMA.

Yeah, I know that no liberals are defending Paul (and for good reason). It's the kooky cons who are defending him. And as we've seen from your posts, your defense is extremely weak.

FEMA should be let loose only if requested .The agency is bloated and ineffective.
BTW, your side went cuckoo for cocoa puffs when FEMA didn't move it's collective ass quickly enough to save New Orleans.

Will all these FEMA NUTS love FEMA so much when they are ushered into those camps they have ready to insure they continue to be in control. Be careful what you wish for. You want a government agency to provide for your every need? Bureau of prisons can do that.

 

[The T]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is fallacious and irrelevant.

NOAA could be funded by any one of a number of private interests and/or coalition of the several states.

Try again.

You're funny. Not too bright, but funny none the less. But maybe I judge to harshly, I'm sure you have a business plan wherein a private company would do all that NASA & NOAA do and turn a nice profit.

Would you care to explain how?

There is actually big bucks to be made lifting payloads into Space, and Servicing them. Not to mention all the Private people who would pay large sums for the chance to just Orbit the Earth a couple times. A Private Company could conceivably Turn a Profit doing Both.

See SpaceX

 

[Oddball]

Ron Paul thinks states don't need FEMA to help with natural disasters. I guess he should tell Rick Perry to give all of that money back. I don't understand why cons love this guy so much. He sounds like a loon to me.

First Read - Ron Paul: No FEMA response necessary

GILFORD, N.H. -- After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.
"We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960," Paul said. "I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.

Yeah, Paul, Galveston is in your district. And what happened in Galveston 100 or so years ago? A hurricane that killed thousands. Too bad we can't go back to the way things were in 1900, when thousands died because of a lack of emergency preparedness.

Silly idea, Ron.

Imagining that all our problems will be solved if we take the powers of the FED and put all that authority into state governments is a perfect example of conservatives' MAGICAL THINKING.

Does he imagine that STATE goverments are not also subject to the same nefarious forces that are screwing up our Federal government, or something?

Well he's dead wrong to imagine that.

As to shutting down FEMA?

Interstate cooperation in nature disasters makes good sense as natural disasters are not beholden to state lines.

What's magical thinking is the notion that you can wave the magic wand of federal bureaucracy and it'll somehow perform feats of wizardry unheard of amongst the hoi polloi.

BTW, whatever became of all those travel trailers destined to be used buy Katrina victims?

 

[Oddball]

Believe it or not there are certain functions that should be done at the federal level. Centralization of certain functions save money. McDonald's would not have a dietitian a every restaurant. Likewise it makes no sense to duplicate a disaster recovery organization, which would be rarely used in every state.

Yet another strawman argument...Your opinion of what "should" be done at the federal level is irrelevant.

Is that your default rebuttal? You like to say it, but I'm not too sure you understand what it means.

As long as you keep invoking the strawman argument, I'll continue to point it out and refuse to entertain its flawed presumptions.