Ron Paul announced Presidential plan today

[DontBeStupid]

Sorry I had to take my GF to the ER because she got a "needle stick" while giving shots. The problem with your numbers DBS is that the jobs Obama has "created" are fake, meaning unless he keeps dumping tens of billions into keeping them they will fade away. 3 years later and we are worse off, so you can't really argue his way worked.

Oh and all that spending build a huge deficit that got the country downgraded.

I never said Obama's plan was better. In fact, this isn't a thread about any Obama plan.

This is about Paul's plan. Can you not defend the Paul plan?

 

[Avorysuds]

Sorry I had to take my GF to the ER because she got a "needle stick" while giving shots. The problem with your numbers DBS is that the jobs Obama has "created" are fake, meaning unless he keeps dumping tens of billions into keeping them they will fade away. 3 years later and we are worse off, so you can't really argue his way worked.

Oh and all that spending build a huge deficit that got the country downgraded.

I never said Obama's plan was better. In fact, this isn't a thread about any Obama plan.

This is about Paul's plan. Can you not defend the Paul plan?

DBS... My point is reality is setting in, unless you keep spending forever... unless you keep borrowing forever you can't keep these Government jobs. So yes, Paul's plan would cost some people their jobs, not many, but at some point their jobs will be gone because the Government will forgo a collapse.

Paul said he would push people into other departments, not rehire as people retire as the program (Department of education) is done away with.

Obama’s plan = pass the buck

Paul’s plan = the buck stops here

Obama would rather you remember him as the guy that cared so much he brought the country to a collapse financially, Paul is willing to have higher UE so the fix is long term.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Under Paul's plan, states would simply receive block grants for Medicaid, food stamps, the State Children's Health Insurance Program and other welfare programs.

Which they would spend however they see fit, such as not on public assistance programs at all. Such a program would be a disaster for middle and lower income working families and children.

When it comes to Medicare, Social Security, and veterans' benefits, Paul says he his plan "honors" the commitment the nation has to seniors and veterans, but it allows young workers to opt out of those programs.

Which would de facto end Social Security and Medicare.

However…

It’s highly unlikely the GOP controls 60 seats in the Senate after 2012, indeed, the democrats may retain control of the Senate – in either case none of Paul’s plan happens. He’s running for president, not dictator.

This is about Paul's plan. Can you not defend the Paul plan?

I don’t see how anyone can. It’s reactionary fantasy and nonsense. Someone needs to tell Paul and his supporters it’s not 1789, it’s the 21st Century now – they need to accept and deal with reality.

 

[pgm]

Under Paul's plan, states would simply receive block grants for Medicaid, food stamps, the State Children's Health Insurance Program and other welfare programs.

Which they would spend however they see fit, such as not on public assistance programs at all. Such a program would be a disaster for middle and lower income working families and children.

It doesn't say states can be completely free to spend the money on non-public welfare programs. I'm sure Paul would prefer that, but I could see that as one of the areas he might be willing to compromise on. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If Paul wanted to be a serious contender for potus he should have done this months ago to counter the stereotypes about him.

Good or bad in my opinion this will be nothing more than a footnote to his candidacy.

 

[Avorysuds]

Under Paul's plan, states would simply receive block grants for Medicaid, food stamps, the State Children's Health Insurance Program and other welfare programs.

Which they would spend however they see fit, such as not on public assistance programs at all. Such a program would be a disaster for middle and lower income working families and children.

When it comes to Medicare, Social Security, and veterans' benefits, Paul says he his plan "honors" the commitment the nation has to seniors and veterans, but it allows young workers to opt out of those programs.

Which would de facto end Social Security and Medicare.

However…

It’s highly unlikely the GOP controls 60 seats in the Senate after 2012, indeed, the democrats may retain control of the Senate – in either case none of Paul’s plan happens. He’s running for president, not dictator.

This is about Paul's plan. Can you not defend the Paul plan?

I don’t see how anyone can. It’s reactionary fantasy and nonsense. Someone needs to tell Paul and his supporters it’s not 1789, it’s the 21st Century now – they need to accept and deal with reality.

Maybe if you guys came to the table with real attacks there would be something to debate. All your claims act on the idea that everything is working currently... How are the schools doing with the DoE? Oh what's that, horrible? Screwing the middle class, poor and children? Interesting... Maybe we should keep doing it that way.

My point is when the DoE was created education has gotten worse, that is fact… So getting rid of it by default is better because we were better without it in the first place.

Like I said, there is nothing to debate because some time later in some random thread you will tell us all how bad our education system is, but today it's wonderful, or just better than it was before we got the DoE, even if it's worse now...

 

[Avorysuds]

If Paul wanted to be a serious contender for potus he should have done this months ago to counter the stereotypes about him.

Good or bad in my opinion this will be nothing more than a footnote to his candidacy.

Or Cain proved Mitt/Perry are not frontrunners and can be beaten. Now that Cain is getting burned for having a shallow un thought through plan as his single position platform for President it is possible Paul might move up...

Again, we'll see but Paul will raise the money to be in it for the long term.

They might find lots wrong with Paul’s numbers and I wouldn’t accept Paul’s word over reality like so few have done with Cain’s 999 “plan.”

Also Rush just backed Paul up, that's fing huge being he said it was the only plan that is serious... Again, I'm not a Rush fan and never listen to him, but that does not change the reality of the influence Rush has. http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...d-ron-paul-s-new-budget-plan.html#post4284617

 

[WatertheTree]

I'm okay with cutting back those dep'ts and maybe eventually eliminating them, but not all at once. I'd be gradually cutting back over time to get there rather than in one year cuz it could really hurt the economy enough to put us into another recession.

You seem to fail to realize that were broke. Our checking acount is overdrawn and the bank is threatening to close it. We have been printing money nonstop for the last 15 years and the country is already going to swallow alot of inflation.

In short, the party is OVER. Its time to clean up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If Paul wanted to be a serious contender for potus he should have done this months ago to counter the stereotypes about him.

Good or bad in my opinion this will be nothing more than a footnote to his candidacy.

Or Cain proved Mitt/Perry are not frontrunners and can be beaten. Now that Cain is getting burned for having a shallow un thought through plan as his single position platform for President it is possible Paul might move up...

Again, we'll see but Paul will raise the money to be in it for the long term.

They might find lots wrong with Paul’s numbers and I wouldn’t accept Paul’s word over reality like so few have done with Cain’s 999 “plan.”

Also Rush just backed Paul up, that's fing huge being he said it was the only plan that is serious... Again, I'm not a Rush fan and never listen to him, but that does not change the reality of the influence Rush has. http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...d-ron-paul-s-new-budget-plan.html#post4284617

Listen you tunnel vision Paul suck up. In my 9-9-9 thread I admit in THE VERY FIRST POST that the plan needs tweeked. How the hell you come to your conclusion baffles me. Critical thought must elude you.
Of course as a Paul lackey that doesn't surprise me.

Paul has 0 chance of EVER being potus. Deal with that reality and get back to me.

 

[Avorysuds]

If Paul wanted to be a serious contender for potus he should have done this months ago to counter the stereotypes about him.

Good or bad in my opinion this will be nothing more than a footnote to his candidacy.

Or Cain proved Mitt/Perry are not frontrunners and can be beaten. Now that Cain is getting burned for having a shallow un thought through plan as his single position platform for President it is possible Paul might move up...

Again, we'll see but Paul will raise the money to be in it for the long term.

They might find lots wrong with Paul’s numbers and I wouldn’t accept Paul’s word over reality like so few have done with Cain’s 999 “plan.”

Also Rush just backed Paul up, that's fing huge being he said it was the only plan that is serious... Again, I'm not a Rush fan and never listen to him, but that does not change the reality of the influence Rush has. http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...d-ron-paul-s-new-budget-plan.html#post4284617

Listen you tunnel vision Paul suck up. In my 9-9-9 thread I admit in THE VERY FIRST POST that the plan needs tweeked. How the hell you come to your conclusion baffles me. Critical thought must elude you.
Of course as a Paul lackey that doesn't surprise me.

Paul has 0 chance of EVER being potus. Deal with that reality and get back to me.

First I didn't say you supported Cain's position, I said "few" have, others just want someone other than Mitt and don't know shit about Cain's plan, that's more the camp you're in.

I honestly don't care about you uninformed opinion on who you think can win the nomination or not, your opinion will not change how thing happen.

 

[WatertheTree]

This is what it looks like when someone puts up a serious plan with numbers to back up their positions.

This link is to just a general news story, this is a simplistic breakdown of the plan:
Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

This link is to actual graphs, numbers, charts and whatever you could ever want provided to understand how the plan will achieve its said goal: http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

Looks good to me, looking forward to seeing if the plan is legit.

There is a lot of information provided so I fully understand if this thread does not get much trafic, lol.

Its only 11 pages, I wonder what kinko's would charge to have 100 copies made.

 

[Avorysuds]

You kow what get's me, this thread is about Paul's plan yet the people that don't like Paul have done nothing to attack his plan... Prolly because they never read it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Or Cain proved Mitt/Perry are not frontrunners and can be beaten. Now that Cain is getting burned for having a shallow un thought through plan as his single position platform for President it is possible Paul might move up...

Again, we'll see but Paul will raise the money to be in it for the long term.

They might find lots wrong with Paul’s numbers and I wouldn’t accept Paul’s word over reality like so few have done with Cain’s 999 “plan.”

Also Rush just backed Paul up, that's fing huge being he said it was the only plan that is serious... Again, I'm not a Rush fan and never listen to him, but that does not change the reality of the influence Rush has. http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...d-ron-paul-s-new-budget-plan.html#post4284617

Listen you tunnel vision Paul suck up. In my 9-9-9 thread I admit in THE VERY FIRST POST that the plan needs tweeked. How the hell you come to your conclusion baffles me. Critical thought must elude you.
Of course as a Paul lackey that doesn't surprise me.

Paul has 0 chance of EVER being potus. Deal with that reality and get back to me.

First I didn't say you supported Cain's position, I said "few" have, others just want someone other than Mitt and don't know shit about Cain's plan, that's more the camp you're in.

I honestly don't care about you uninformed opinion on who you think can win the nomination or not, your opinion will not change how thing happen.

Actually my opinion and the millions of others just like mine matter tremendously if you ever expect Paul to get the nomination.

And you can sit here in your comfy little Paul thread and pretend you havnt been bashing me or cains ideas but the majority of this board knows better.
It's not about your opinion on Cain so much as its your apparent unwillinglyness to own your opinion. Hell I don't even agree with Cain on everything but I don't pretend one thing in one thread while spewing another in a different one.

Your a hack, nothing more. You won't admit anyone other than Paul can be right if it doesn't somehow merge with Pauls ideals. I've watched you bash nearly every gop candidate about one thing or another yet Paul can do no wrong. Your shallow and pedantic.

I have no doubt Paul is a brilliant individual. He's just not presidential material.

 

[WatertheTree]

This is what it looks like when someone puts up a serious plan with numbers to back up their positions.

Yay.

This link is to just a general news story, this is a simplistic breakdown of the plan:
Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

On the simplistic breakdown first:
*Cutting $1 trillion in one year will hurt a lot. I'm not saying it's not a good thing in the long run, but it'll certainly be bad in the short run. If a business that spent a trillion dollars a year suddenly stopped spending that money, it would have a huge ripple effect on the world economy. Still, it's a scary thought that so many are dependent on one thing (no matter how you feel about the role of government), so making the economy more independent from big government is a good idea. I just wouldn't do the transition in one year (especially right now).
*Cutting regulation should make up for some of the negative effects of cutting spending. You won't reduce the costs of regulation to make up 1 trillion dollars, but it'll certainly help.
*The bully pulpit has not proven itself at all effective in at least George Bush or Barack Obama's presidencies. Bush tried it on his social security reform and failed. Obama is trying it with his jobs bill and it is not yet doing anything. I don't see Ron Paul as having a better ability to bully Congress into action.
*The power of the veto may work better because Paul will obviously use it in a consistent and principled way. It could just end up with nothing happening at all, however, unless 2/3s of Congress can come up with a compromise that isn't what Paul wants.
*Changing entitlement spending to block grants could be good because it will create competition on who can come up with the best plan. But it also might hurt people as states could be more interested in cutting costs than providing the best service.
*Cutting the federal workforce by 10% is definitely good as a long-term goal, but it'll certainly hurt the economy by massively increasing unemployment.
*He can't cut the pay of Congress in one year. He can have Congress change the pay for the second two years.
*I support the idea of a $40K/year presidential salary. The President does have tons of expenses (he has to pay for food, including the meals by the White House chef). Supposedly, the President has $50K/year in expenses. But the President can learn to spend less.
*Moving the capital gains tax to zero will definitely help investment. But it'll help the people who make their income off of capital gains far, far more. I could question the fairness of it, but instead I'll question whether it could be distortionary to favor investment income far more than other income. It'll spur growth, but it could also increase risk.
OK, that's all on this.

This link is to actual graphs, numbers, charts and whatever you could ever want provided to understand how the plan will achieve its said goal: http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

Looks good to me, looking forward to seeing if the plan is legit.

I'll read those later. I do believe Paul's numbers. Particularly since he predicts government revenue to drop with the drop in taxes. I question his growth predictions slightly (I fear a double dip if one trillion is taken out of the economy in a year). I don't necessarily think they're wrong--I just would like to see some more independent analysis. But Paul's focus isn't on increasing revenue anyway--it's on cutting spending.

Blah blah fucking blah

SSSHUUUUDDDDUUUPP!!!!

Were broke and were dont payin for this shit. Now siddown!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You kow what get's me, this thread is about Paul's plan yet the people that don't like Paul have done nothing to attack his plan... Prolly because they never read it.

You need more than a plan to run this country. Fuck, Obama had a plan.... And look where we are now.

We need a leader as much as a plan. A plan is fucking useless without the ability to implement it with a coalition. Paul can't even build a support base to get him in the whitehouse let alone implement a plan.

 

[Avorysuds]

Listen you tunnel vision Paul suck up. In my 9-9-9 thread I admit in THE VERY FIRST POST that the plan needs tweeked. How the hell you come to your conclusion baffles me. Critical thought must elude you.
Of course as a Paul lackey that doesn't surprise me.

Paul has 0 chance of EVER being potus. Deal with that reality and get back to me.

First I didn't say you supported Cain's position, I said "few" have, others just want someone other than Mitt and don't know shit about Cain's plan, that's more the camp you're in.

I honestly don't care about you uninformed opinion on who you think can win the nomination or not, your opinion will not change how thing happen.

Actually my opinion and the millions of others just like mine matter tremendously if you ever expect Paul to get the nomination.

And you can sit here in your comfy little Paul thread and pretend you havnt been bashing me or cains ideas but the majority of this board knows better.
It's not about your opinion on Cain so much as its your apparent unwillinglyness to own your opinion. Hell I don't even agree with Cain on everything but I don't pretend one thing in one thread while spewing another in a different one.

Your a hack, nothing more. You won't admit anyone other than Paul can be right if it doesn't somehow merge with Pauls ideals. I've watched you bash nearly every gop candidate about one thing or another yet Paul can do no wrong. Your shallow and pedantic.

I have no doubt Paul is a brilliant individual. He's just not presidential material.

My fav part of what you said in that was "Hell I don't even agree with Cain on everything." Maybe you can start with 5 very simple positions that are policy specific that you do support of Cain's before you start claiming that are things you don't agree with him. It sounds like you have trouble with the single policy position you know of and that Cain has, 999... He is a winner lol.

 

[Avorysuds]

You kow what get's me, this thread is about Paul's plan yet the people that don't like Paul have done nothing to attack his plan... Prolly because they never read it.

You need more than a plan to run this country. Fuck, Obama had a plan.... And look where we are now.

We need a leader as much as a plan. A plan is fucking useless without the ability to implement it with a coalition. Paul can't even build a support base to get him in the whitehouse let alone implement a plan.

Paul clearly talks about how he would implement his plans, Oh, that's right you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, somehow I thought you actually looked up the topic being you have been provided so much information.. In your little "i hate RP!!!" world you would rather just attack than read anything, huh, no wonder you like Cain, nothing in depth to read about.

I like how you trash Paul yet support Cain, a guy who’s single policy Presidential platform is falling apart under his feet and inspired the left to vote for Obama by telling them they want to destroy America.

I can see we are going in circles, you don't read anything and then talk shit, I try and clear it up, you get angry and talk more shit...

 

[Maple]

This is what it looks like when someone puts up a serious plan with numbers to back up their positions.

This link is to just a general news story, this is a simplistic breakdown of the plan:
Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

This link is to actual graphs, numbers, charts and whatever you could ever want provided to understand how the plan will achieve its said goal: http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

Looks good to me, looking forward to seeing if the plan is legit.

There is a lot of information provided so I fully understand if this thread does not get much trafic, lol.

Now I know he is a nut case:

Paul also proposes reducing the federal workforce by 10 percent, slashing congressional pay and bringing down the president's salary to $39,336 -- "approximately equal to the median personal income of the American worker," his campaign says.


A President's salary at $39,336, my state representative makes more money. LOL What fool could you get to run for that salary, oh, I forgot, Ron Paul LOL. This guy is not serious. Ron Paul could always give up his salary, app $150,000 per year, all the perks, the retirement he is going to collect for the rest of his life and then I would believe this, but until he does, this just in not credible. He is a total nut job.

 

[Jackson]

I am not a RP supporter, but I can see merit in many of his suggestions. It would be nice for not only citizens to take this plan seriously, but Congress as well.

 

[pgm]

You kow what get's me, this thread is about Paul's plan yet the people that don't like Paul have done nothing to attack his plan... Prolly because they never read it.

Any thoughts on my thoughts?

(my thoughts on the sketch of Paul's plan)

Blah blah fucking blah

SSSHUUUUDDDDUUUPP!!!!

Were broke and were dont payin for this shit. Now siddown!

Huh?

I'd respond, but I honestly can't make sense of what you're trying to say (after the shutup, obviously).