Ron Paul Against NAFTA, WTO, CAFTA and All Free Trade Agreements

Discussion in 'Politics' started by GHook93, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. GHook93
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    GHook93 Aristotle

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    He says he is for free trade and these agreements don't provide free trade. He says they bastardize the system for the elites. I fully support withdrawal from the WTO. This is an antiAmerican organization that sanctions the US, but allows China to do whatever they want. I am against NAFTA. We turned a trade surplus with Mexico into the 2nd largest trade deficit in world history. I do like CAFTA though. And we don't have FTA with China, rather they took over our consumer goods manufacturing sector when Clinton tore down the trade barriers with them. No protections against China seems like a losing proposition.

    Question is why is Paul the only candidate (including Obama) to see at least the WTO and NAFTA as bad deals from for the US?

    And is he right in his opposition to NAFTA, WTO and all FTAs?

     
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  2. konradv
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    konradv Gold Member

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    Beware of people who would collapse the world economy on "principle". I don't give them any credit for using the word. All it seems to mean is "that way I don't have to think". :cool:
     
  3. paulitician
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    paulitician Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Obviously he's right. These deals have been horrific for American Workers. No entangling alliances.
     
  4. Contumacious
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    Contumacious Radical Freedom

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    Managed Trade Is Not Free Trade


    by Laurence M. Vance, July 11, 2011

    As libertarians have long pointed out, trade agreements like the Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) and organizations like the World Trade Organization (WTO) are not free-trade agreements and organizations. Rather, they are managed-trade agreements and organizations that abdicate power to an international body, and in direct violation of the Constitution. As Congressman Ron Paul stated,

    We don’t need government agreements to have free trade. We merely need to lower or eliminate taxes on the American people, without regard to what other nations do. Remember, tariffs are simply taxes on consumers. Americans have always bought goods from abroad; the only question is how much our government taxes us for doing so.

    CAFTA and other international trade agreements do not represent free trade. Free trade occurs in the absence of government interference in the flow of goods."

    .
     
  5. GHook93
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    GHook93 Aristotle

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    WTO has been disasterous for America. It's become the mechanism to take away the American economic advantage and allow China to get away with IP theft, slave wages and unlawful devaluation of their currency.

    NAFTA is beyond a disaster.

    However, CAFTA is very beneficial. We have a trade surplus with every CAFTA country.
     
  6. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    The philosophy to which you are adhering is not free trade. You are a believer in mercantilism if you believe that a trade surplus is inherently good and a trade deficit is inherently bad.

    And the reason why we have organizations such as the WTO is so that it is more difficult for countries to steal IP and devalue currencies. Countries are going to do that regardless. In a trade agreement, you bound them by the rule of law. That is, when they wish to abide by it. The United States has often broken the rules of trade agreements when it has been politically expedient to do so, whether that is Canadian softwood lumber, Mexican trucking or offshore gambling.

    And the "slave wages" comment is the type of thing you hear at OWS rallies. It is a rallying cry of extreme leftism.
     
  7. paulitician
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    paulitician Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    These deals have only brought depressed wages to our nation. American Wages haven't been the same since these terrible deals were signed. You combine these deals with massive Illegal Immigration and that has spelled disaster for American Workers. I don't think the American Worker will ever recover. It's very sad.
     
  8. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    The conservative mantra is "let the market decide." But there is no market independent of government, so what they're really saying is, "Stop government from defending workers and protecting the middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to pit us against cheap labor in China and India.

    The "middle class" is not the natural result of freeing business to do whatever it wants, of "free and open markets," or of "free trade." The "middle class" is not a normal result of "free markets." Those policies will produce a small but powerful wealthy class, a small "middle" mercantilist class, and a huge and terrified worker class which have traditionally been called "serfs."

    Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

    Somehow I don't think Ron Paul's ideas will be any better for the middle class. He's right to be against NAFTA, but for all the wrong reasons. Libertarians make no sense. Not to us and not to the righties. Sorry but its true.

    But thank you Ron Paul for at least admitting NAFTA and CAFTA and the WTO are fucked up. Another thing he agrees with liberals on. Maybe rigthies should take a closer look at the Democratic party. We hate the Federal Reserve too, want pot and prostitution legalized, hate the military industrial complex fighting wars all over the world and we hate NAFTA too! Join a union.
     
  9. Paulie
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    Paulie Platinum Member

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    You hate the federal reserve??? Without the Federal Reserve monetizing all the debt it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the government to take the Keynesian approach that the democrats love so much.
     
  10. sealybobo
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    Why not? Step one is go after the illegal employers. Stop attacking people who are coming here and FINDING work. I would sneak over to Canada too if I could make $200K. Wouldn't you? But if the jobs dried up, they would go back home and stay. This is not an impossible thing to solve. Employers know when they are hiring an illegal. And the government can check. But that would take regulations and oversite and the GOP won't have that. Bleeding heart liberals aren't keeping the illegal workers here. We don't pay their rent.

    Step 2 is to bring back the word tariff. Of course we should still trade with the rest of the world, but it should be fair trade. Every other nation protected their vital industries except for the USA. Do you think that is because our workers make the most? Of course!

    Bring back the unions. Reagan started breaking them and they went from 35% of our workforce to 12%. They don't have the power they once had. But they still have the auto workers, teachers, police and firefighters. A lot of them are voting for Obama because the GOP is anti union.

    4. Corporations and rich people need to start paying their fair share again. Clearly they aren't paying nearly what they did back when Clinton was in office and back then, we had surplus'.

    And when American factory workers start making $35 hr, the economy will be good again. Republicans cried about these workers but they don't care that CEO pay is now 320 times the average worker. 5 years ago it was 270. Republicans need to realize that this gap is a problem. The rich can't spend enough, and we haven't gotten a raise in 30 years.
     

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