Romney's wealth

[uscitizen]

Marrying for money; John Kerry knows how to do it.

Jealous?

 

[blackhawk]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

Short version: Romney's wealth is more of an issue because Romney's policies favor the wealthy and Romney has defined himself by how he got his wealth.

I agree that Romney's wealth has proven and will prove more of an issue than Kerry's did. I think there are two main reasons:

1) Romney's policies directly benefit the wealthy, whereas Kerry's did not. Romney broadly endorses cutting taxes on the wealthy and reducing spending on programs that directly benefit the non-wealthy. Kerry seemed to favor letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire and expanding programs that directly benefit the non-wealthy. Of course, we can argue about what the actual effects of their programs would have been or will be, but there is a widespread (and to my mind, accurate) perception that Romney's plan will directly benefit people like him. Such a perception did not exist for Kerry.

Still, Bush was a wealthy guy who favored cutting the taxes of wealthy people (and did). Why wasn't his wealth as much an issue as Romney's is?

2) Romney has defined himself by his time at Bain, which is of course directly tied to his personal wealth. More than any other major-party candidate in recent memory, Romney has de-emphasized his government service and focused on his private sector experience. While people argue about whether Bain actually served its clients well, everyone agrees on how his time at Bain affected Romney-- it made him very, very rich. When Romney talks about his time as a job creator (and, more circumspectly, as a job destroyer) it is inevitable that he reminds the listener that while he was creating jobs he was also lining his own pockets in a way that a public servant would not.

I'm just going to focus on that last line. Lining his own pockets in a way a public servant would not you are kidding right? I don't think there is anyone out there who lines their pockets more than the so called public servants.

 

[ladyliberal]

When Romney talks about his time as a job creator (and, more circumspectly, as a job destroyer) it is inevitable that he reminds the listener that while he was creating jobs he was also lining his own pockets in a way that a public servant would not.

I'm just going to focus on that last line. Lining his own pockets in a way a public servant would not you are kidding right? I don't think there is anyone out there who lines their pockets more than the so called public servants.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not kidding. What makes you think that I am? Romney seems to have made hundreds of millions of dollars. Has there been a single American public servant who made that much money through his or her office? I would not count someone like Kerry who married into money while in public office. I would love to see evidence to support your claim that there is no one out there (including people who earn billions of dollars a year) who lines their pockets more than public servants.

I don't mean to suggest that the way Romney earned his wealth was immoral-- only that it is understandable that it has acquired a political significance.

EDIT: A recent $30 million bribery case has been described as the largest in history: http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-cur...lty-pleas-in-30-million-army-corruption-case/, so it seems to me that even a singularly corrupt public official can't make as much as your average plutocrat.

 

[Chris]

Romney's secret Swiss bank account....

Romney was required to file a financial disclosure form, less detailed than taxes, when he filed for president. In fact, he argued that he should have to release his taxes because the disclosure form showed everything important. But 23 different investment funds shown on his taxes did not appear on his disclosure form -- and 11 of those are in those overseas, secret banking centers. That's a sign of what he's embarrassed to reveal -- and it's also a felony, if the government can prove it was deliberate and not just a sloppy oversight.

The biggest concern is Romney's Swiss bank account, one of the items not on his financial disclosure. Mitt had it from 2003 to 2010, when his adviser shut it down. He closed it in the middle of an amnesty that the IRS had declared for owners of previously unreported Swiss bank accounts -- if they came clean, they would not face criminal prosecution for not reporting it in previous years (which was illegal - plus most weren't paying taxes on that money). Was the sudden shutdown of Romney's secret Swiss bank account part of this amnesty program? We can't know unless and until he releases prior returns, like his dad who released 12 years of prior returns. And Mitt is still fiercely refusing to do so.

 

[Chris]

Romney's Medicare Fraud....

In 1989, Romney led Bain Capital's purchase of Damon Corp., a medical testing company, and took a seat on the Board of Directors to better manage it. During Romney's four years, Bain tripled its investment, and Romney personally made $473,000 -- while Damon plumped its profits with Medicare fraud (running thousands of medical tests doctors didn't want, and billing Medicare for them). The company pled guilty to crimes committed during his tenure and paid a record fine of $119 million. Company President Joseph Isola pleaded no contest to fraud, and a vice president was also convicted.

Romney claims he "uncovered" the fraudulent claims and "took corrective action," but court records show that he did not notify prosecutors or stop the fraudulent billing. He just asked company lawyers what changes they could make to avoid prosecution, after the feds' LABSCAM prosecution targeted a different medical testing firm. The cheating continued, prosecutors say, until the day Bain sold the company to Corning. Furthermore, Damon Corp. was required to list in various SEC filings any significant legal risks it faced. Romney made no mention of the fraud he "uncovered," even though it led to a $119 million fine, the largest in history. Damon Corp. is another Bain acquisition that later went bankrupt, killing over a thousand jobs -- but not before Bain made $7.4 million in profit.

 

[Synthaholic]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

Conservatives tried everything they could think of to make Kerry's wealth an issue in 2004.

Lurch married his money and Romney earned his.

As usual, Oddball is a liar. Anyone surprised?

The Forbes 400 survey estimated in 2004 that Teresa Heinz Kerry had a net worth of $750 million. However, estimates have frequently varied, ranging from around $165 million to as high as $3.2 billion, according to a study in the Los Angeles Times. Regardless of which figure is correct, Kerry is the wealthiest U.S. Senator. Kerry is wealthy in his own name, and is the beneficiary of at least four trusts inherited from Forbes family members, including his mother, who died in 2002.

 

[Synthaholic]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

Short version: Romney's wealth is more of an issue because Romney's policies favor the wealthy and Romney has defined himself by how he got his wealth.

I agree that Romney's wealth has proven and will prove more of an issue than Kerry's did. I think there are two main reasons:

1) Romney's policies directly benefit the wealthy, whereas Kerry's did not. Romney broadly endorses cutting taxes on the wealthy and reducing spending on programs that directly benefit the non-wealthy. Kerry seemed to favor letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire and expanding programs that directly benefit the non-wealthy. Of course, we can argue about what the actual effects of their programs would have been or will be, but there is a widespread (and to my mind, accurate) perception that Romney's plan will directly benefit people like him. Such a perception did not exist for Kerry.

Still, Bush was a wealthy guy who favored cutting the taxes of wealthy people (and did). Why wasn't his wealth as much an issue as Romney's is?

2) Romney has defined himself by his time at Bain, which is of course directly tied to his personal wealth. More than any other major-party candidate in recent memory, Romney has de-emphasized his government service and focused on his private sector experience. While people argue about whether Bain actually served its clients well, everyone agrees on how his time at Bain affected Romney-- it made him very, very rich. When Romney talks about his time as a job creator (and, more circumspectly, as a job destroyer) it is inevitable that he reminds the listener that while he was creating jobs he was also lining his own pockets in a way that a public servant would not.

I'm just going to focus on that last line. Lining his own pockets in a way a public servant would not you are kidding right? I don't think there is anyone out there who lines their pockets more than the so called public servants.

Because you are unable to refute the rest of it.

 

[blackhawk]

When Romney talks about his time as a job creator (and, more circumspectly, as a job destroyer) it is inevitable that he reminds the listener that while he was creating jobs he was also lining his own pockets in a way that a public servant would not.

I'm just going to focus on that last line. Lining his own pockets in a way a public servant would not you are kidding right? I don't think there is anyone out there who lines their pockets more than the so called public servants.

No, I'm not kidding. What makes you think that I am? Romney seems to have made hundreds of millions of dollars. Has there been a single American public servant who made that much money through his or her office? I would not count someone like Kerry who married into money while in public office. I would love to see evidence to support your claim that there is no one out there (including people who earn billions of dollars a year) who lines their pockets more than public servants.

I don't mean to suggest that the way Romney earned his wealth was immoral-- only that it is understandable that it has acquired a political significance.

EDIT: A recent $30 million bribery case has been described as the largest in history: Two More Guilty Pleas In $30 Million Army Corruption Case - Corruption Currents - WSJ, so it seems to me that even a singularly corrupt public official can't make as much as your average plutocrat.[/QUOTE]
Why though does Romney deserve political significance for his wealth as you state there was nothing immoral about it it was not earned illegally the Kennedy's stalwarts of the Democratic party were and are very wealthy as is Kerry as was Edwards. The only reason I can see for this being a issue is to use it to promote the idea that Romney's wealth disconnects him from regular people ok if that is the argument then shouldn't it also be applied to the million and billionaire Democrats as well? I for one find this idea that somehow wealth only disconnects Republicans from regular people but not Democrats laughable.

 

[Chris]

When Romney talks about his time as a job creator (and, more circumspectly, as a job destroyer) it is inevitable that he reminds the listener that while he was creating jobs he was also lining his own pockets in a way that a public servant would not.

I'm just going to focus on that last line. Lining his own pockets in a way a public servant would not you are kidding right? I don't think there is anyone out there who lines their pockets more than the so called public servants.

No, I'm not kidding. What makes you think that I am? Romney seems to have made hundreds of millions of dollars. Has there been a single American public servant who made that much money through his or her office? I would not count someone like Kerry who married into money while in public office. I would love to see evidence to support your claim that there is no one out there (including people who earn billions of dollars a year) who lines their pockets more than public servants.

I don't mean to suggest that the way Romney earned his wealth was immoral-- only that it is understandable that it has acquired a political significance.

EDIT: A recent $30 million bribery case has been described as the largest in history: Two More Guilty Pleas In $30 Million Army Corruption Case - Corruption Currents - WSJ, so it seems to me that even a singularly corrupt public official can't make as much as your average plutocrat.

Why though does Romney deserve political significance for his wealth as you state there was nothing immoral about it it was not earned illegally the Kennedy's stalwarts of the Democratic party were and are very wealthy as is Kerry as was Edwards. The only reason I can see for this being a issue is to use it to promote the idea that Romney's wealth disconnects him from regular people ok if that is the argument then shouldn't it also be applied to the million and billionaire Democrats as well? I for one find this idea that somehow wealth only disconnects Republicans from regular people but not Democrats laughable.[/QUOTE]

That's because you haven't researched it very much.

The two richest Democrats, Buffett and Gates, are giving their money away.

 

[ladyliberal]

Why though does Romney deserve political significance for his wealth as you state there was nothing immoral about it it was not earned illegally the Kennedy's stalwarts of the Democratic party were and are very wealthy as is Kerry as was Edwards. The only reason I can see for this being a issue is to use it to promote the idea that Romney's wealth disconnects him from regular people ok if that is the argument then shouldn't it also be applied to the million and billionaire Democrats as well? I for one find this idea that somehow wealth only disconnects Republicans from regular people but not Democrats laughable.

As to why Romney's wealth has acquired more political significance than Kerry's, I refer you back to my first post, when I gave my opinion on just that subject.

I agree that wealth is not particularly more disconnecting for a Democrat than for a Republican, but I never made that claim.

 

[Chris]

 

[Chris]

 

[ladyliberal]

That's because you haven't researched it very much.

The two richest Democrats, Buffett and Gates, are giving their money away.

Are you suggesting that Democrats donate more than Republicans? I don't think that's true. For that matter, it's not clear to me that either Buffett or Gates are Democrats.

 

[oreo]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

It's the republican versus democrat. In fact--there are more wealthy democrats in elected office than there are republicans.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/11/1...wealthiest-members-of-congress-are-democrats/

But the CLASS ENVY in this country is due to one man alone.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill

 

[clevergirl]

Romney's Medicare Fraud....

In 1989, Romney led Bain Capital's purchase of Damon Corp., a medical testing company, and took a seat on the Board of Directors to better manage it. During Romney's four years, Bain tripled its investment, and Romney personally made $473,000 -- while Damon plumped its profits with Medicare fraud (running thousands of medical tests doctors didn't want, and billing Medicare for them). The company pled guilty to crimes committed during his tenure and paid a record fine of $119 million. Company President Joseph Isola pleaded no contest to fraud, and a vice president was also convicted.

Romney claims he "uncovered" the fraudulent claims and "took corrective action," but court records show that he did not notify prosecutors or stop the fraudulent billing. He just asked company lawyers what changes they could make to avoid prosecution, after the feds' LABSCAM prosecution targeted a different medical testing firm. The cheating continued, prosecutors say, until the day Bain sold the company to Corning. Furthermore, Damon Corp. was required to list in various SEC filings any significant legal risks it faced. Romney made no mention of the fraud he "uncovered," even though it led to a $119 million fine, the largest in history. Damon Corp. is another Bain acquisition that later went bankrupt, killing over a thousand jobs -- but not before Bain made $7.4 million in profit.

yawnnnn~

The Damon Corp. story certainly reads like -- and probably is -- an episode of corporate greed and fraud. It's an old story, which Massachusetts voters have heard before, but most Americans haven't. The reason that it could be a problem for Romney is that despite the fact that neither he nor Bain was ever charged with wrongdoing in the case, the coming narrative is that Romney has given two different answers regarding his involvement -- which Obama supporters will try to use to mask the basic facts of the case. In one answer, he discovered that the company was over-billing Medicare for blood tests and called for an investigation. Some reports say that prosecutors gave credit for ending the fraud to Corning Inc. which purchased Damon in 1993. But ABC News notes, in the most balanced report I've found on the topic, that "Romney and the Damon board did, however, contact Damon’s lawyers, seek their counsel, and change Damon’s policies." In another answer, Romney said he was unaware of any criminal investigation into the matter. To be sure, those two claims are not mutually exclusive; Romney could easily have both asked for an internal investigation and been unaware of a federal investigation.

The real question here is whether anybody cares about a "scandal" which occurred two decades ago. It's potentially damaging to Romney by going after his aura of being honest and upstanding. And that's just what the Democrats will try to do, especially trying to tie Romney to a Medicare scandal which might impact Romney's appeal to older voters. Romney will likely say "If I had done anything wrong, don't you think I or my firm would have been charged with something? Furthermore, here are copies of the documents I had sent to the company's lawyers to ask them to investigate this issue, and we implemented all the changes the lawyers instructed." read more

 

[American Horse]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

Because Kerry's wealth is a one off, and he doesn't devote his work life (career) and philosophy around the function of wealth; however Romney is a member of the party which largely is seen to devote its activities and philosophy around free enterprise which is seen to have the highest aim of creating and facilitating wealth.

It's not fair that Romney can be so narrowly categorized, but unfortunately charity (which he gives a lot to) is easily dismissed as being self serving, even as if tax loopholes enable him to turn charity into net profit, so his whole life offers itself up for venality, as a brazen capitalist.

Never mind that Kerry married instead of earned his wealth, but by doing so he can't be criticized for acting like a capitalist.

 

[American Horse]

That's because you haven't researched it very much.

The two richest Democrats, Buffett and Gates, are giving their money away.

Buffet and Gates, just like Bill Clinton put their wealth into charitable foundations which allow them to keep it for a "promise" but claim tax deductions up front. These are scams and political because the foundations which will eventually administer these funds are liberal in nature.

 

[JoeB131]

Romney's Medicare Fraud....

In 1989, Romney led Bain Capital's purchase of Damon Corp., a medical testing company, and took a seat on the Board of Directors to better manage it. During Romney's four years, Bain tripled its investment, and Romney personally made $473,000 -- while Damon plumped its profits with Medicare fraud (running thousands of medical tests doctors didn't want, and billing Medicare for them). The company pled guilty to crimes committed during his tenure and paid a record fine of $119 million. Company President Joseph Isola pleaded no contest to fraud, and a vice president was also convicted.

Romney claims he "uncovered" the fraudulent claims and "took corrective action," but court records show that he did not notify prosecutors or stop the fraudulent billing. He just asked company lawyers what changes they could make to avoid prosecution, after the feds' LABSCAM prosecution targeted a different medical testing firm. The cheating continued, prosecutors say, until the day Bain sold the company to Corning. Furthermore, Damon Corp. was required to list in various SEC filings any significant legal risks it faced. Romney made no mention of the fraud he "uncovered," even though it led to a $119 million fine, the largest in history. Damon Corp. is another Bain acquisition that later went bankrupt, killing over a thousand jobs -- but not before Bain made $7.4 million in profit.

and I have to ask, why aren't we hearing this from the Obama campaign.

What I find maddening is that there is so much dirt on Romney. And Obama is treating him with kid gloves.

 

[JoeB131]

I have a simple question why is Mitt Romney's wealth such a big issue in this election but the wealth of John Kerry in 2004 was not?

It's the republican versus democrat. In fact--there are more wealthy democrats in elected office than there are republicans.
The PJ Tatler » Seven of the Top Ten Wealthiest Members of Congress Are Democrats

But the CLASS ENVY in this country is due to one man alone.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill

This would be the same WInston Churchill who ran an empire based on looting poor third world countries so some English could live large.

It isn't about class envy, it's about the problem of wealth disparity.

The rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer, and we as a nation are weaker for it.

 

[Decus]

These arguments are about who you think can lead and who you are willing to follow, whereas personally, I just want all of you to get the hell out of my way. This "my dog is better than your dog" nonsense is just too funny. Take responsibility for your own lives and quite moaning.