Romney to Reid: Put up or Shut Up

[Political Junky]

I heard from an unnamed source
that as a child, Harry Reid would torture small
animals

Well, we know that Bush, Jr. did.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually the most likely source is Reid's best bud and fellow Senator John McCain, who first of all we know HAS the goods and secondly would hate to see Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., succeed where he had just failed in 2008!!!!

How would McCain know anything about Romney's tax returns?

Ahhhh yes, the perpetual dumb act from the people who claim to be the most informed. Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., gave them to McCain in 2008 while McCain vetted him and then rejected him for VP, as you well know.

Then the claim that Romney didn't pay taxes for 10 years is utterly bogus. You just admitted it. The idea that Romney wouldn't pay a dime in taxes when he was running for president is so stupid only a Democrat would believe it.

 

[ladyliberal]

Yeah, and that's why Harry Reid made his remarks from the Senate floor: so he wouldn't be sued. That fact makes him appear even sleazier.

Actually, if you had read the news article cited in the first post of the thread you would realize that Reid made substantially the same remarks off the Senate floor that he made on the floor. As such your claim that he used the floor to avoid a suit lacks factual support and invalidates your argument regarding Reid's level of sleaziness.

 

[bripat9643]

A friend of Reid called me to say that he likes to have sex with animals.

I just got that call, as well

I just talked with a former member of the Nevada Gaming Commission and he said Reid would give it up to some mafioso for poker chips!!!!!

Reid's mother called me and said she caught him giving Bawney Fwank a blow job.

 

[ladyliberal]

I'd like to see this play out, and if Reid doesn't have anything more than some speculation, Romney should sue his old ass for defamation.

As I noted earlier in this thread, such a suit would be unsuccessful for a number of reasons. I also think it would be horrible political strategy for Romney, prolonging a story that at its core is about what is in Romney's tax returns rather than, say, Romney's plan for America.

The Obama campaign and its media allies are going to prolong this as long as they can regardless of what Romney does.

Who do you think you're kidding?

I don't think I'm kidding anyone.

I more or less agree that the Obama campaign will probably try to keep Romney's returns in the news as long as they can (assuming he doesn't release any more). However, the key word is "can". Depending on how deftly Romney fends off their attacks they will be able to keep the news focus for a longer or shorter time. For the Romney campaign to file suit (which I very much doubt they will) would certainly affect how long the story was in the news.

 

[bripat9643]

You seem to be trying to introduce a broad and entirely unrelated topic from another thread here. Let me say briefly that I think it is a little absurd to say that Axelrod has tried to use opponent divorce records in all of Obama's previous elections. I don't recall anything of the sort in Obama's campaigns against Clinton or McCain.

"Unrelated?" You must be joking. We're discussing the sleazy tactics of the Obama campaign.

Clinton hasn't been divorced and if you don't recall, they attempted to accuse McCain of having an affair with one of his campaign staffers. However, that fell flat on its face.

When you say that Romney has been married to "the same women" are you suggesting that Romney is a crypto-polygamist or did you mean to say "the same woman"?

Typo. I meant "the same woman."

 

[ladyliberal]

I have to agree with candycorn: I think it is very odd that Romney is challenging Reid to produce evidence. Romney could have simply (and fairly) criticized Reid for repeating unsupported hearsay. Instead he gives Reid the opportunity to simply retort with something like:

"I can't say who the person was because I would be betraying a confidence. You, on the other hand, can prove or disprove the allegations simply by releasing your own returns in accordance with tradition. You have called me a liar (since I said my source was a Bain investor and you say it was probably the White House) and you have the documents to prove your allegations. Let the American people judge which of us is the liar."

Romney should call for a Senatr investigation. Everyone including Reid will testify under oath and Romney will access to discovery.

I think that would be a horrible move on Romney's part. Putting aside the fact that Senators don't like to appear to be taking orders from non-Senators I doubt the Senate would be capable of successfully forcing its own Majority leader to testify under oath. And as far as I know there's no discovery procedure in a Senate investigation, since it's not a trial. And does Romney really want "everyone" testifying under oath about Romney's taxes?

Romney's not going to call for a Senate investigation, and if he did it would go horribly for him.

 

[edthecynic]

How would McCain know anything about Romney's tax returns?

Ahhhh yes, the perpetual dumb act from the people who claim to be the most informed. Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., gave them to McCain in 2008 while McCain vetted him and then rejected him for VP, as you well know.

He was rejected, you know this and why he was rejected as well? DAM I know lots of republicans in TN, including some high level ones, and havent heard this....hmmmmmmmm

Yes, he was rejected for VP and Celebutard Palin was picked over him because, as McCain himself said, Celebutard Palin was the better candidate.

 

[edthecynic]

How would McCain know anything about Romney's tax returns?

Ahhhh yes, the perpetual dumb act from the people who claim to be the most informed. Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., gave them to McCain in 2008 while McCain vetted him and then rejected him for VP, as you well know.

Then the claim that Romney didn't pay taxes for 10 years is utterly bogus. You just admitted it. The idea that Romney wouldn't pay a dime in taxes when he was running for president is so stupid only a Democrat would believe it.

What drugs are you on?????? You are renowned on this board for your incredibly stupid posts, but you have outdone yourself this time. About the only thing that could top that post for complete stupidity would be for you to post your rationalization for that post.

 

[oldernwiser]

Wait ... wait ... do I have this right?

Romney: I refuse to release any more tax returns.
Reid: That's because you didn't pay any taxes!
Romney: Yeah? Prove it!

But.... that's not how the exchange goes.

Romney says he's produced enough of his personal tax info (he isn't obliged to provide any more than he has already).

Press says Romney lied about Bain involvement.

Romney should have said they made it up which would have forced the press to reveal the data. Instead, he says he retroactively retired (while collecting a "stipend" of over $100k in 2 successive years while listed as the acting CEO).

Reid says Rmoney didn't pay any taxes. Rmoney should have said Reid made that up. Instead he says he has paid all the taxes he is legally entitled to pay.

Every time Rmoney opens his mouth to defend himself, he comes off as trying to hide something where if he just shut up, his detractors would be placed in the position of having to actually PROVE their claims. Now the idiot faces a real dilemma of his own making.

It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[bripat9643]

Ahhhh yes, the perpetual dumb act from the people who claim to be the most informed. Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., gave them to McCain in 2008 while McCain vetted him and then rejected him for VP, as you well know.

Then the claim that Romney didn't pay taxes for 10 years is utterly bogus. You just admitted it. The idea that Romney wouldn't pay a dime in taxes when he was running for president is so stupid only a Democrat would believe it.

What drugs are you on?????? You are renowned on this board for your incredibly stupid posts, but you have outdone yourself this time. About the only thing that could top that post for complete stupidity would be for you to post your rationalization for that post.

I can sum up your response in two words: "you're stupid!"

Is that really the best you can do?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ahhhh yes, the perpetual dumb act from the people who claim to be the most informed. Willard Mitt, rhymes with ...., gave them to McCain in 2008 while McCain vetted him and then rejected him for VP, as you well know.

He was rejected, you know this and why he was rejected as well? DAM I know lots of republicans in TN, including some high level ones, and havent heard this....hmmmmmmmm

Yes, he was rejected for VP and Celebutard Palin was picked over him because, as McCain himself said, Celebutard Palin was the better candidate.

You have a link on this info? OR is this another Harry Reid outta my ass, just trust me, kinda thing?
It's funny how hypocritical and stupid you libtards are........so where's the beef (or proof if you will)

 

[Clementine]

How sad is it that Harry Reid used the Senate Floor to spread gossip for the Obama campaign. I was under the impression that it was a Senate ethics violation to campaign from inside the Senate.
I intend on calling Harry Reid's office tomorrow and letting them know my opinion of the filthy way that our public facilities are being used. I also plan to call my own senators and demand that they formally protest Harry Reid using the Senate floor in a campaign speech for Obama. I hope that thousands of others also call and voice their opinion of the slander of a citizen coming from a seat of government power.

Dishonesty, ethics violations and even breaking laws will be excused since the end justifies the means. They want to win. Their supporters don't care how their masters retain power.

I think Romney did the right thing. Call as much attention to Reid, who will soon be thrown under the bus by the Obama administration, and put him on the spot. When the lie is exposed, Reid will be sorry he started this crap. I wonder if he came up with this on his own or perhaps is in cahoots with another liar.

 

[ladyliberal]

A gov't employee releasing taxpayer information
of any type is usually a crime

26 USC § 6103 - CONFIDENTIALITY AND DISCLOSURE OF RETURNS AND RETURN INFORMATION

Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
(1) no officer or employee of the United States,
(2) no officer or employee of any State, any local law enforcement agency receiving information under subsection (i)(7)(A), any local child support enforcement agency, or any local agency administering a program listed in subsection (l)(7)(D) who has or had access to returns or return information under this section or section 6104 (c), and
(3) no other person (or officer or employee thereof) who has or had access to returns or return information under subsection (e)(1)(D)(iii), paragraph (6), (10), (12), (16), (19), (20), or (21) of subsection (l), paragraph (2) or (4)(B) of subsection (m), orsubsection (n),
shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, since I don't understand the connection between your statement and mine. I also don't understand the significance of your statement. Are you suggesting that Reid broke the law? If so, could you clarify which sections/subsections you are invoking? I haven't read the entire law of course, but it would seem to prevent Reid from repeating information he had obtained from federal sources such as the IRS or FBI, none of the sections I see say anything about whether he can repeat information he obtained from private sources.

I just did

shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee.
​

As I said
A gov't employee releasing taxpayer information
of any type is usually a crime

Perhaps you can quote the law where a gov't
employee is allowed to release tax payer information
without permission

I'm having a horrible time parsing your incomplete sentence(s). In the interests of clarifying our communication I'm going to paraphrase what I understand you to be saying. Please correct me if I have misunderstood you:

Neotrotsky: I didn't have any particular reason for quoting your earlier statement. I am indeed suggesting that Reid broke the law. I cite the following passage as the relevant statute... I reiterate my claim that for a government employee to release taxpayer information without the permission of the taxpayer is usually a crime. As such, I challenge you to cite a federal statute that would supersede the one I offered.

And now my reply:

Let us look at the entire subsection (or section or whatever) as you quoted it:

(3) no other person (or officer or employee thereof) who has or had access to returns or return information under subsection (e)(1)(D)(iii), paragraph (6), (10), (12), (16), (19), (20), or (21) of subsection (l), paragraph (2) or (4)(B) of subsection (m), orsubsection (n),
shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee.

As I earlier alluded to, the subsection does not apply to a government official such as Reid who obtained tax information from a private party. If the anonymous source had truthfully said to Reid, "I saw Romney's return, and he listed zero tax liability" then Reid may indeed have broken the law. However, there is no evidence that Reid's source (assuming that it exists) cited Romney's return (why, after all, would a "Bain investor" be looking at Romney's personal tax returns?).

A review of what the law you cited defines as "return information" makes this distinction clear (26 USC § 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | LII / Legal Information Institute

(2) Return information
The term “return information” means—
(A) a taxpayer’s identity, the nature, source, or amount of his income, payments, receipts, deductions, exemptions, credits, assets, liabilities, net worth, tax liability, tax withheld, deficiencies, overassessments, or tax payments, whether the taxpayer’s return was, is being, or will be examined or subject to other investigation or processing, or any other data, received by, recorded by, prepared by, furnished to, or collected by the Secretary with respect to a return or with respect to the determination of the existence, or possible existence, of liability (or the amount thereof) of any person under this title for any tax, penalty, interest, fine, forfeiture, or other imposition, or offense,

By your logic, Romney's identity is just as confidential as his tax liabilities. No federal employee would be allowed to repeat Romney's name if they ever heard it as part of their official duties. In fact, of course, the law only prevents such employees from reading his name or anything else off of his tax return, not from obtaining it from other sources.

Given that I don't believe the law you cite applies to the case at hand, the need to cite a superseding law (which I doubt exists) is moot.

Assuming that an investigation opened up into whether Reid did break the law (which, for reasons stated above, I find very unlikely) Romney would have more to fear than Reid. After all, the investigation would have to demonstrate that Reid's claims were true to show that Reid disclosed information.

As an aside, I am moderately impressed by the actual IRS agents who are indeed abiding by the law and resolutely protecting Romney's privacy (and that of everyone else). This much-maligned institution is leak-proof to a degree that other federal branches (including the national security apparatus) can only hope to be.

EDIT: I have finished reviewing each of the 13 areas of the law cited in the part you cited (but which you did not provide as requested) and indeed they all deal with official sources rather than information passed through private third parties. For example, under paragraph (12) of subsection (l) if Romney had called up Reid and showed Reid his (Romney's) tax return to prove Romney's employment status for the purposes of determining Medicare eligibility [in this hypothetical let us ignore the fact that this is not the sort of request that would typically be made to a Senator, particularly one of a different state] then Reid would be barred from disclosing this information about Romney's employment status.

 

[Lakhota]

Harry Reid is kicking ass! Go Harry!!!!

Mitt Romney To Harry Reid On Tax Dodge: 'Put Up Or Shut Up' (UPDATE: Reid Responds)

 

[buckeye45_73]

Harry Reid is kicking ass! Go Harry!!!!

Mitt Romney To Harry Reid On Tax Dodge: 'Put Up Or Shut Up' (UPDATE: Reid Responds)

Old news, but HOW did I KNOW the source......but here is my thing, I'd ask Reid to realease the informant's name........so who did he here it from....I'm thinking strawman.......

 

[ladyliberal]

You seem to be trying to introduce a broad and entirely unrelated topic from another thread here. Let me say briefly that I think it is a little absurd to say that Axelrod has tried to use opponent divorce records in all of Obama's previous elections. I don't recall anything of the sort in Obama's campaigns against Clinton or McCain.

"Unrelated?" You must be joking. We're discussing the sleazy tactics of the Obama campaign.

Clinton hasn't been divorced and if you don't recall, they attempted to accuse McCain of having an affair with one of his campaign staffers. However, that fell flat on its face.

When you say that Romney has been married to "the same women" are you suggesting that Romney is a crypto-polygamist or did you mean to say "the same woman"?

Typo. I meant "the same woman."

I am not joking.

Perhaps I should have said "largely unrelated" or "almost entirely unrelated". The first post was about Romney denying Reid's claims about Romney's tax returns. Your post seemed to center on a Chicago Tribune story about Blair Hull's divorce. While I applaud you for being able to draw a connection between the two events, I posit that introducing such distantly related topics into a non-branching thread would make it very difficult for those of us who are not particularly interested in comparing the two topics to navigate the thread. You may note that in order to keep the thread as on-topic as possible I have endeavored to avoid discussing even much more closely-related topics, such as whether there are indeed years in which Romney had no federal income tax liability.

I am heartened to find that we can agree on whether Hillary Clinton has ever been divorced (and apparently on how many wives Romney has). Are you interested in reconciling the fact that McCain has never been divorced with your earlier claim that Obama has used the divorce records of his opponents in every election? On the face of it these facts seem to be in serious conflict.

In fact I don't have any recollection whatsoever of the Obama campaign accusing McCain of having an affair. I assume that your claim in that regard rests on the assumption that the NYT and the WaPo (and perhaps any other news organization which reported on that story) were allied with the Obama campaign. On that point I believe we would have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lakhota]

New Source Backs Reid's Tipster On Romney Tax-Dodge Allegation

A second source, said to be "close to Senator [Harry] Reid," has told CNN's Dana Bash that Reid's original source for the claim that Mitt Romney "didn't pay any taxes for 10 years" exists, is a "Bain investor" and a "credible person." Dana Bash reported on this source, and the person's willingness to corroborate the allegation to which the Senate majority leader repeated on Thursday's airing of CNN's AC360.

More: Harry Reid Romney Tax Tipster 'Is A Credible Person,' New Source Tells CNN

 

[Political Junky]

New Source Backs Reid's Tipster On Romney Tax-Dodge Allegation

A second source, said to be "close to Senator [Harry] Reid," has told CNN's Dana Bash that Reid's original source for the claim that Mitt Romney "didn't pay any taxes for 10 years" exists, is a "Bain investor" and a "credible person." Dana Bash reported on this source, and the person's willingness to corroborate the allegation to which the Senate majority leader repeated on Thursday's airing of CNN's AC360.

More: Harry Reid Romney Tax Tipster 'Is A Credible Person,' New Source Tells CNN

Updated just before midnight. Damn, another verification.

 

[edthecynic]

He was rejected, you know this and why he was rejected as well? DAM I know lots of republicans in TN, including some high level ones, and havent heard this....hmmmmmmmm

Yes, he was rejected for VP and Celebutard Palin was picked over him because, as McCain himself said, Celebutard Palin was the better candidate.

You have a link on this info? OR is this another Harry Reid outta my ass, just trust me, kinda thing?
It's funny how hypocritical and stupid you libtards are........so where's the beef (or proof if you will)

McCain: Palin Was a Better Candidate than Romney in 2008 | Drudge Retort

Mitt Romney's tax returns had nothing to do with Sen. John McCain's decision to choose Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008, according to the Arizona Republican, saying he chose the former Alaska governor because she was a "better candidate."

McCain: Palin was 'better candidate' than Romney

Asked why he chose not to go with Romney, McCain said: "Oh come on, because we thought that Sarah Palin was the better candidate. Why did we not take [Tim] Pawlenty, why did we not take any of the other 10 other people. Why didn’t I? Because we had a better candidate, the same way with all the others. ... Come on, why? That’s a stupid question."