Romney to Reid: Put up or Shut Up

[BreezeWood]

was Romney's trip to the Olympics a business expense to write off their Horse ???

 

[Neotrotsky]

probably as much as Michelle Obama’s $7,000 jacket for the Olympics was a business expense

 

[ladyliberal]

That might work in a court of law, but Reid needs to face the court of public opinion and the judgement of his peers in the Senate. No matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, this is unacceptable. If we in the public continue to allow such underhanded tactics and outright lies, then how can we ever expect decent people to run for public office? It's time for people to say enough is enough.

I haven't seen any evidence that any of Reid's statements are false, much less that they are lies. Indeed, even the Romney campaign seems to be stopping short of saying that Reid is lying, only saying that the underlying allegation that Reid says he is repeating is false.

I would love it if people who were caught telling deliberate falsehoods were prevented from holding public office. However, such a system does not seem possible in the near future. Such a criterion would eliminate most if not all of our Presidential candidates. Certainly, Romney himself has made plenty of demonstrably false statements in his bid to smear Obama: PolitiFact | All Pants on Fire! statements involving Mitt Romney

And part of the reason that Reid is willing to make such statements is precisely that he doesn't need to face the court of public opinion, at least not any time soon. Reid is not up for election for years. I doubt he would make such remarks if he were running for election this year.

 

[Neotrotsky]

A liberal leaning website might not be the best source

Big difference, Reid is actually in service to the gov't
Romney is not

But on a side note

I just heard from a unnamed police source that Reid was
a big fan of Jerry Sandusky

 

[Vel]

That might work in a court of law, but Reid needs to face the court of public opinion and the judgement of his peers in the Senate. No matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, this is unacceptable. If we in the public continue to allow such underhanded tactics and outright lies, then how can we ever expect decent people to run for public office? It's time for people to say enough is enough.

I haven't seen any evidence that any of Reid's statements are false, much less that they are lies. Indeed, even the Romney campaign seems to be stopping short of saying that Reid is lying, only saying that the underlying allegation that Reid says he is repeating is false.

I would love it if people who were caught telling deliberate falsehoods were prevented from holding public office. However, such a system does not seem possible in the near future. Such a criterion would eliminate most if not all of our Presidential candidates. Certainly, Romney himself has made plenty of demonstrably false statements in his bid to smear Obama: PolitiFact | All Pants on Fire! statements involving Mitt Romney

And part of the reason that Reid is willing to make such statements is precisely that he doesn't need to face the court of public opinion, at least not any time soon. Reid is not up for election for years. I doubt he would make such remarks if he were running for election this year.

Utter bullshit. Romney certainly did come out and say that it was untrue and dishonest. And Harry Reid had no business campaigning for Obama from the senate floor and I hope that enough people pressure their senators into letting him know it.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Indeed

his actions, acting as Senator in chamber
might even be illegal

so I heard

 

[Zxereus]

I'd like to see this play out, and if Reid doesn't have anything more than some speculation, Romney should sue his old ass for defamation.

 

[ladyliberal]

That might work in a court of law, but Reid needs to face the court of public opinion and the judgement of his peers in the Senate. No matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, this is unacceptable. If we in the public continue to allow such underhanded tactics and outright lies, then how can we ever expect decent people to run for public office? It's time for people to say enough is enough.

I haven't seen any evidence that any of Reid's statements are false, much less that they are lies. Indeed, even the Romney campaign seems to be stopping short of saying that Reid is lying, only saying that the underlying allegation that Reid says he is repeating is false.

I would love it if people who were caught telling deliberate falsehoods were prevented from holding public office. However, such a system does not seem possible in the near future. Such a criterion would eliminate most if not all of our Presidential candidates. Certainly, Romney himself has made plenty of demonstrably false statements in his bid to smear Obama: PolitiFact | All Pants on Fire! statements involving Mitt Romney

And part of the reason that Reid is willing to make such statements is precisely that he doesn't need to face the court of public opinion, at least not any time soon. Reid is not up for election for years. I doubt he would make such remarks if he were running for election this year.

Utter bullshit. Romney certainly did come out and say that it was untrue and dishonest. And Harry Reid had no business campaigning for Obama from the senate floor and I hope that enough people pressure their senators into letting him know it.

I don't know that "Utter bullshit" refers to. Romney said

Well, it’s time for Harry to put up or shut up. Harry’s going to have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course, that’s totally and completely wrong.

and

It’s untrue, dishonest, and inaccurate. It’s wrong. So I'm looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we'll probably find out it’s the White House. Look, the Obama campaign is going to do everything in its power to try and talk about anything besides the president’s record.

So when Romney says something is "wrong", "untrue", "dishonest", or "inaccurate" he chooses words like "it" or "that" that make it unclear whether he is referring to the statements by Reid or by Reid's anonymous source, or he qualifies his claim with the word "probably". It is semantically ambiguous, and it is certainly not clear to me that Romney intends to be understood as calling Reid a liar.

You can hope what you'd like, but I don't see Reid paying a substantial political price for this. I think he made these statements quite deliberately and that any damage to his credibility he willfully accepts.

 

[clevergirl]

You, Harry Reid, Are Terrible - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/01/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[ladyliberal]

I'd like to see this play out, and if Reid doesn't have anything more than some speculation, Romney should sue his old ass for defamation.

As I noted earlier in this thread, such a suit would be unsuccessful for a number of reasons. I also think it would be horrible political strategy for Romney, prolonging a story that at its core is about what is in Romney's tax returns rather than, say, Romney's plan for America.

 

[Vel]

I haven't seen any evidence that any of Reid's statements are false, much less that they are lies. Indeed, even the Romney campaign seems to be stopping short of saying that Reid is lying, only saying that the underlying allegation that Reid says he is repeating is false.

I would love it if people who were caught telling deliberate falsehoods were prevented from holding public office. However, such a system does not seem possible in the near future. Such a criterion would eliminate most if not all of our Presidential candidates. Certainly, Romney himself has made plenty of demonstrably false statements in his bid to smear Obama: PolitiFact | All Pants on Fire! statements involving Mitt Romney

And part of the reason that Reid is willing to make such statements is precisely that he doesn't need to face the court of public opinion, at least not any time soon. Reid is not up for election for years. I doubt he would make such remarks if he were running for election this year.

Utter bullshit. Romney certainly did come out and say that it was untrue and dishonest. And Harry Reid had no business campaigning for Obama from the senate floor and I hope that enough people pressure their senators into letting him know it.

I don't know that "Utter bullshit" refers to. Romney said

Well, it’s time for Harry to put up or shut up. Harry’s going to have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course, that’s totally and completely wrong.

and

It’s untrue, dishonest, and inaccurate. It’s wrong. So I'm looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we'll probably find out it’s the White House. Look, the Obama campaign is going to do everything in its power to try and talk about anything besides the president’s record.

So when Romney says something is "wrong", "untrue", "dishonest", or "inaccurate" he chooses words like "it" or "that" that make it unclear whether he is referring to the statements by Reid or by Reid's anonymous source, or he qualifies his claim with the word "probably". It is semantically ambiguous, and it is certainly not clear to me that Romney intends to be understood as calling Reid a liar.

You can hope what you'd like, but I don't see Reid paying a substantial political price for this. I think he made these statements quite deliberately and that any damage to his credibility he willfully accepts.

It's very clear that he his saying that Harry Reid is lying. I don't think however that Mitt Romney is going to forget that he's a gentleman and just get as gutter nasty as the Obama surrogates. I just don't think he can comprehend that type of filth.

 

[brawny1]

Awesome clip! and from Stewart no less...

 

[ladyliberal]

It's very clear that he his saying that Harry Reid is lying. I don't think however that Mitt Romney is going to forget that he's a gentleman and just get as gutter nasty as the Obama surrogates. I just don't think he can comprehend that type of filth.

I accept that it is clear to you. It is not clear to me at all. As far as whether Romney can be as vicious as Reid is being, I refer you again to Politifact's list of false statements by Romney. Reid's statements may be poorly sourced and provocative: many of Romney's statements have been demonstrably false and/or inflammatory.

 

[Vel]

It's very clear that he his saying that Harry Reid is lying. I don't think however that Mitt Romney is going to forget that he's a gentleman and just get as gutter nasty as the Obama surrogates. I just don't think he can comprehend that type of filth.

I accept that it is clear to you. It is not clear to me at all. As far as whether Romney can be as vicious as Reid is being, I refer you again to Politifact's list of false statements by Romney. Reid's statements may be poorly sourced and provocative: many of Romney's statements have been demonstrably false and/or inflammatory.

I don't think so but, even if they were, Romney wasn't saying them on while in the taxpayer's house and on the taxpayer's payroll.

 

[auditor0007]

We all know Reid is not going to tell us who his so called source is which begs the question what is Reid hiding? My guess is that there is no source and Reid is lying through his teeth.

And we all know Romney is not going to release his tax returns which begs the question what is Romney hiding?

 

[Neotrotsky]

It's very clear that he his saying that Harry Reid is lying. I don't think however that Mitt Romney is going to forget that he's a gentleman and just get as gutter nasty as the Obama surrogates. I just don't think he can comprehend that type of filth.

I accept that it is clear to you. It is not clear to me at all. As far as whether Romney can be as vicious as Reid is being, I refer you again to Politifact's list of false statements by Romney. Reid's statements may be poorly sourced and provocative: many of Romney's statements have been demonstrably false and/or inflammatory.

A gov't employee releasing taxpayer information
of any type is usually a crime

26 USC § 6103 - CONFIDENTIALITY AND DISCLOSURE OF RETURNS AND RETURN INFORMATION

Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
(1) no officer or employee of the United States,
(2) no officer or employee of any State, any local law enforcement agency receiving information under subsection (i)(7)(A), any local child support enforcement agency, or any local agency administering a program listed in subsection (l)(7)(D) who has or had access to returns or return information under this section or section 6104 (c), and
(3) no other person (or officer or employee thereof) who has or had access to returns or return information under subsection (e)(1)(D)(iii), paragraph (6), (10), (12), (16), (19), (20), or (21) of subsection (l), paragraph (2) or (4)(B) of subsection (m), orsubsection (n),
shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee.

 

[Vel]

We all know Reid is not going to tell us who his so called source is which begs the question what is Reid hiding? My guess is that there is no source and Reid is lying through his teeth.

And we all know Romney is not going to release his tax returns which begs the question what is Romney hiding?

This is why Romney should NOT release another piece of paper.
*********************************************
Mitt Romney presents one enormous problem for Barack Obama’s campaign: No divorce records. That’s why the media are so hot to get their hands on Romney’s tax records for the past 25 years. They need something to “pick through, distort and lie about” — as the Republican candidate says.
Obama’s usual campaign method, used in 100 percent of his races, has been to pry into the private records of his opponents.
Democrats aren’t going to find any personal dirt on the clean-cut Mormon, so they need complicated tax filings going back decades in order to create the illusion of scandal out of boring financial records.

Obama’s Signature Move: Unsealing Private Records | FrontPage Magazine

 

[Conservative]

You, Harry Reid, Are Terrible - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/01/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Video: Jon Stewart Slams Harry Reid For Mitt Romney Tax Returns Statements - Business Insider

Reid told The Huffington Post on Tuesday that an unnamed Bain investor told him that Romney hadn't paid taxes in 10 years, but Reid also acknowledged he didn't know if this was true. Reid went on to speculate that his "poor father must be so embarrassed about his son," referencing the fact that George Romney released more than 12 years of tax returns when he ran for president in 1968.

"I cannot believe you just went dead-dad shame on Mitt Romney," Stewart said. "As someone who has truly and thoroughly disappointed his still-living father on many occasions, that is bulls**t shot."

There's a video of the Jon Stewart segment on the linked page.

 

[ladyliberal]

It's very clear that he his saying that Harry Reid is lying. I don't think however that Mitt Romney is going to forget that he's a gentleman and just get as gutter nasty as the Obama surrogates. I just don't think he can comprehend that type of filth.

I accept that it is clear to you. It is not clear to me at all. As far as whether Romney can be as vicious as Reid is being, I refer you again to Politifact's list of false statements by Romney. Reid's statements may be poorly sourced and provocative: many of Romney's statements have been demonstrably false and/or inflammatory.

A gov't employee releasing taxpayer information
of any type is usually a crime

26 USC § 6103 - CONFIDENTIALITY AND DISCLOSURE OF RETURNS AND RETURN INFORMATION

Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
(1) no officer or employee of the United States,
(2) no officer or employee of any State, any local law enforcement agency receiving information under subsection (i)(7)(A), any local child support enforcement agency, or any local agency administering a program listed in subsection (l)(7)(D) who has or had access to returns or return information under this section or section 6104 (c), and
(3) no other person (or officer or employee thereof) who has or had access to returns or return information under subsection (e)(1)(D)(iii), paragraph (6), (10), (12), (16), (19), (20), or (21) of subsection (l), paragraph (2) or (4)(B) of subsection (m), orsubsection (n),
shall disclose any return or return information obtained by him in any manner in connection with his service as such an officer or an employee or otherwise or under the provisions of this section. For purposes of this subsection, the term “officer or employee” includes a former officer or employee.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, since I don't understand the connection between your statement and mine. I also don't understand the significance of your statement. Are you suggesting that Reid broke the law? If so, could you clarify which sections/subsections you are invoking? I haven't read the entire law of course, but it would seem to prevent Reid from repeating information he had obtained from federal sources such as the IRS or FBI, none of the sections I see say anything about whether he can repeat information he obtained from private sources.

 

[Black_Label]

This is hilarious that the hard right wing goons suddenly now like Stewart