Romney last night: "The stimulus could have been better directed"

[Paulie]

Don't you guys ever provide links to anything you say? Ever?

You need a link to tell you that 1/3 of the stimulus expenditures went to state and local governments, where unions reign supreme?

Seriously?

I know that well over a hundred Republicans who voted against the stimulus took hundreds of millions of dollars to create thousands of jobs. I know 30 to 40% was tax breaks. We have seen many links proving these.

About huge amounts of money going to such a small number in unions? Haven't seen that. I would appreciate a link. Unless you don't have any.

Dean, do yourself a favor and for once in your life, open your mind and shut your mouth.

1/3 of the stimulus went to bailing out states and local governments. Everyone knows this, it's well documented. I almost feel stupid if I go get a link to it because you're probably the only one here who seems to not know this, which is ironic because no one shoots out % numbers better than you.

Now, this being said, who do you think was the primary beneficiary of state government bailouts? Those government jobs that were saved were largely union jobs. Firefighter unions, police unions, teacher unions, etc.

Pull your fucking head out of your ass FOR ONCE.

 

[Paulie]

Really?

Not "it shouldn't have even existed"?

So basically he supports the trillion dollar waste.

Why does this guy keep getting recycled each election?

This is the exact reason why the republican party is really just democrat lite.

Why do you contintue to believe that the stimulus did nothing at all?

I don't. I can freely admit that it might have created some short term good.

But it's the long term ramifications that bother me. Huge increases in debt, which are leading to monetization by the Fed. This is monetary inflation and will eventually lead to price increases in the market. We already see it in energy and food at a quicker pace, with many other market sectors seeing price increases at a slower pace.

It's a cycle of inflation, malinvestment, capital misallocation, bubbles, bursts, recessions, and then wash, rinse, repeat.

The market clears excesses naturally. There will be losers, and there will be pain, but it's better than kicking the can down the road to the next generation.

 

[JoeB131]

You need a link to tell you that 1/3 of the stimulus expenditures went to state and local governments, where unions reign supreme?

Seriously?

I know that well over a hundred Republicans who voted against the stimulus took hundreds of millions of dollars to create thousands of jobs. I know 30 to 40% was tax breaks. We have seen many links proving these.

About huge amounts of money going to such a small number in unions? Haven't seen that. I would appreciate a link. Unless you don't have any.

Dean, do yourself a favor and for once in your life, open your mind and shut your mouth.

1/3 of the stimulus went to bailing out states and local governments. Everyone knows this, it's well documented. I almost feel stupid if I go get a link to it because you're probably the only one here who seems to not know this, which is ironic because no one shoots out % numbers better than you.

Now, this being said, who do you think was the primary beneficiary of state government bailouts? Those government jobs that were saved were largely union jobs. Firefighter unions, police unions, teacher unions, etc.

Pull your fucking head out of your ass FOR ONCE.

Good point. All they did was allow the states to avoid the inevitable, which was that there needs to be serious pension and salary reform in the civil service.

 

[California Girl]

So, let's review: Romney said the 'stimulus could have been better directed'.

Hmmm. OK. Let's take a look at a few of the projects funded by said stimulus:

Forest Service to Replace Windows in Visitor Center - Closed in 2007 (Amboy, WA) - $554,763
Despite having no plans to reopen a shuttered visitor center at Mount St. Helens in Washington State,
the U.S. Forest Service is spending more than $554,000 to replace its windows. One government official likened it to “keeping a vacant house in good repair,” while another official noted that there is hope to find some purpose for the building in the future, whether as a hotel, science camp or restaurant.

“Dance Draw” - Interactive Dance Software Development (Charlotte, NC) - $762,372
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte received more than $760,000 in stimulus funds to help
develop a computerized choreography program that its creators believe could lead to a YouTube-like
“Dance Tube” online application. The grant says UNC-Charlotte will “define an evolving system that
assists in the design and production of interactive dance performances with real-time audience
interaction.”

North Shore Connector to Professional Sports Stadiums, Casino (Pittsburgh, PA) - $62 million
In February 2009, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell called Pittsburgh’s North Shore Connector “a
tragic mistake,” leaving taxpayers wondering why the project recently received a $62.5 million windfall from the U.S. Department of Transportation. The project would allow the Port Authority of Allegheny County to extend the city’s light rail under the Allegheny River to the new Rivers Casino,as well as to its two professional sports arenas, PNC Park (home of the Pirates) and Heinz Field (home of the Steelers).Unfortunately, the North Shore Connector has been plagued with problems since its
inception.

FEMA Stalls Two Texas Fire Stations More Than a Year, Increases Costs (San Antonio, TX) - $7.3 million
The City of San Antonio is hoping that there aren’t any fires for at least a year in the vicinity of two
planned fire stations, thanks to “help” from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
FEMA awarded $7.3 million to the city for construction of fire stations #50 and #51,
38 but the projects have become so mired in red tape it is not clear when they will be built.

Abandoned Train Station Converted Into Museum (Glassboro, NJ) - $1.2 million
Taxpayers may not be happy to learn that they are paying for one broken down train station twice. The Glassboro train station was built in 1860 and closed in 1971. Unused for nearly 40 years, it now sits boarded up and riddled with graffiti. In 2002, the Borough of Glassboro, New Jersey received nearly a quarter of a million dollars from the U.S. Department of Transportation to purchase the train station from Conrail. At that time, officials hoped to incorporate the station into the regional NJ Transit system. But those plans fell through, and since then local officials have been looking for a way to fund renovations to put the building to some use.

Ants Talk. Taxpayers Listen (San Francisco, CA) - $1.9 million
The California Academy of Sciences is receiving nearly $2 million to send researchers to the Southwest Indian Ocean Islands and east Africa, to capture, photograph, and analyze thousands of exotic ants. The photographs of the ants – over 3,000 species’ worth, according to the grant proposal – will be posted on AntWeb, a website devoted to organizing and displaying pictures and information on the world’s thousands of ant species.

That's 6. It appears that Romney may have a valid point.

I can provide more, Senators McCain and Coburn have provided a report of hundreds. I have posted the link previously, but, what the hell.... it's here:

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public...&File_id=a7e82141-1a9e-4eec-b160-6a8e62427efb

 

[Paulie]

So, let's review: Romney said the 'stimulus could have been better directed'.

Hmmm. OK. Let's take a look at a few of the projects funded by said stimulus:

Forest Service to Replace Windows in Visitor Center - Closed in 2007 (Amboy, WA) - $554,763
Despite having no plans to reopen a shuttered visitor center at Mount St. Helens in Washington State,
the U.S. Forest Service is spending more than $554,000 to replace its windows. One government official likened it to “keeping a vacant house in good repair,” while another official noted that there is hope to find some purpose for the building in the future, whether as a hotel, science camp or restaurant.

“Dance Draw” - Interactive Dance Software Development (Charlotte, NC) - $762,372
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte received more than $760,000 in stimulus funds to help
develop a computerized choreography program that its creators believe could lead to a YouTube-like
“Dance Tube” online application. The grant says UNC-Charlotte will “define an evolving system that
assists in the design and production of interactive dance performances with real-time audience
interaction.”

North Shore Connector to Professional Sports Stadiums, Casino (Pittsburgh, PA) - $62 million
In February 2009, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell called Pittsburgh’s North Shore Connector “a
tragic mistake,” leaving taxpayers wondering why the project recently received a $62.5 million windfall from the U.S. Department of Transportation. The project would allow the Port Authority of Allegheny County to extend the city’s light rail under the Allegheny River to the new Rivers Casino,as well as to its two professional sports arenas, PNC Park (home of the Pirates) and Heinz Field (home of the Steelers).Unfortunately, the North Shore Connector has been plagued with problems since its
inception.

FEMA Stalls Two Texas Fire Stations More Than a Year, Increases Costs (San Antonio, TX) - $7.3 million
The City of San Antonio is hoping that there aren’t any fires for at least a year in the vicinity of two
planned fire stations, thanks to “help” from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
FEMA awarded $7.3 million to the city for construction of fire stations #50 and #51,
38 but the projects have become so mired in red tape it is not clear when they will be built.

Abandoned Train Station Converted Into Museum (Glassboro, NJ) - $1.2 million
Taxpayers may not be happy to learn that they are paying for one broken down train station twice. The Glassboro train station was built in 1860 and closed in 1971. Unused for nearly 40 years, it now sits boarded up and riddled with graffiti. In 2002, the Borough of Glassboro, New Jersey received nearly a quarter of a million dollars from the U.S. Department of Transportation to purchase the train station from Conrail. At that time, officials hoped to incorporate the station into the regional NJ Transit system. But those plans fell through, and since then local officials have been looking for a way to fund renovations to put the building to some use.

Ants Talk. Taxpayers Listen (San Francisco, CA) - $1.9 million
The California Academy of Sciences is receiving nearly $2 million to send researchers to the Southwest Indian Ocean Islands and east Africa, to capture, photograph, and analyze thousands of exotic ants. The photographs of the ants – over 3,000 species’ worth, according to the grant proposal – will be posted on AntWeb, a website devoted to organizing and displaying pictures and information on the world’s thousands of ant species.

That's 6. It appears that Romney may have a valid point.

I can provide more, Senators McCain and Coburn have provided a report of hundreds.

Are you still not getting it??? You've got to be kidding me, CG.

Hmm, how do I put this so you can understand my point...

Ok...I'll start by saying that I don't disagree with Romney, or you, or anyone else, that the money could have been better directed.

This being said, it does not mean that it was the right thing to do. Fiscal conservatives and tea partiers do not want the government spending their way out of problems anymore. We don't want the debt, the deficits, the monetary inflation that ensues, the increased taxes to pay for it, etc.

So whether or not the money might have had better places to be spent, is IRRELEVANT.

And the point I was making with this thread, is that conservatives are not going to get what they want if they vote for Romney, based on this line of thinking about the stimulus.

Maybe you never really thought it was a bad idea, who knows. I honestly don't know what your thoughts were on it at the time Obama was trying to get it passed. But I hated it, and I still do. I don't think the money could have been "better spent". I think it never should have been spent at all.

 

[California Girl]

So, let's review: Romney said the 'stimulus could have been better directed'.

Hmmm. OK. Let's take a look at a few of the projects funded by said stimulus:

Forest Service to Replace Windows in Visitor Center - Closed in 2007 (Amboy, WA) - $554,763
Despite having no plans to reopen a shuttered visitor center at Mount St. Helens in Washington State,
the U.S. Forest Service is spending more than $554,000 to replace its windows. One government official likened it to “keeping a vacant house in good repair,” while another official noted that there is hope to find some purpose for the building in the future, whether as a hotel, science camp or restaurant.

“Dance Draw” - Interactive Dance Software Development (Charlotte, NC) - $762,372
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte received more than $760,000 in stimulus funds to help
develop a computerized choreography program that its creators believe could lead to a YouTube-like
“Dance Tube” online application. The grant says UNC-Charlotte will “define an evolving system that
assists in the design and production of interactive dance performances with real-time audience
interaction.”

North Shore Connector to Professional Sports Stadiums, Casino (Pittsburgh, PA) - $62 million
In February 2009, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell called Pittsburgh’s North Shore Connector “a
tragic mistake,” leaving taxpayers wondering why the project recently received a $62.5 million windfall from the U.S. Department of Transportation. The project would allow the Port Authority of Allegheny County to extend the city’s light rail under the Allegheny River to the new Rivers Casino,as well as to its two professional sports arenas, PNC Park (home of the Pirates) and Heinz Field (home of the Steelers).Unfortunately, the North Shore Connector has been plagued with problems since its
inception.

FEMA Stalls Two Texas Fire Stations More Than a Year, Increases Costs (San Antonio, TX) - $7.3 million
The City of San Antonio is hoping that there aren’t any fires for at least a year in the vicinity of two
planned fire stations, thanks to “help” from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
FEMA awarded $7.3 million to the city for construction of fire stations #50 and #51,
38 but the projects have become so mired in red tape it is not clear when they will be built.

Abandoned Train Station Converted Into Museum (Glassboro, NJ) - $1.2 million
Taxpayers may not be happy to learn that they are paying for one broken down train station twice. The Glassboro train station was built in 1860 and closed in 1971. Unused for nearly 40 years, it now sits boarded up and riddled with graffiti. In 2002, the Borough of Glassboro, New Jersey received nearly a quarter of a million dollars from the U.S. Department of Transportation to purchase the train station from Conrail. At that time, officials hoped to incorporate the station into the regional NJ Transit system. But those plans fell through, and since then local officials have been looking for a way to fund renovations to put the building to some use.

Ants Talk. Taxpayers Listen (San Francisco, CA) - $1.9 million
The California Academy of Sciences is receiving nearly $2 million to send researchers to the Southwest Indian Ocean Islands and east Africa, to capture, photograph, and analyze thousands of exotic ants. The photographs of the ants – over 3,000 species’ worth, according to the grant proposal – will be posted on AntWeb, a website devoted to organizing and displaying pictures and information on the world’s thousands of ant species.

That's 6. It appears that Romney may have a valid point.

I can provide more, Senators McCain and Coburn have provided a report of hundreds.

Are you still not getting it??? You've got to be kidding me, CG.

Hmm, how do I put this so you can understand my point...

Ok...I'll start by saying that I don't disagree with Romney, or you, or anyone else, that the money could have been better directed.

This being said, it does not mean that it was the right thing to do. Fiscal conservatives and tea partiers do not want the government spending their way out of problems anymore. We don't want the debt, the deficits, the monetary inflation that ensues, the increased taxes to pay for it, etc.

So whether or not the money might have had better places to be spent, is IRRELEVANT.

And the point I was making with this thread, is that conservatives are not going to get what they want if they vote for Romney, based on this line of thinking about the stimulus.

Maybe you never really thought it was a bad idea, who knows. I honestly don't know what your thoughts were on it at the time Obama was trying to get it passed. But I hated it, and I still do. I don't think the money could have been "better spent". I think it never should have been spent at all.

Oh, ok. So, it's not what he said, it's what he said that you take issue with? Yea, that's clear. LMAO.

The money was spent. He gave a perfectly reasonable response - one which we both appear to agree with.... the money could have been better spent. We both have an issue that the money was spent at all. On that, I lean towards agreeing with you. However, I am practical enough - despite my fiscal conservativism - to recognize that we had to inject some kind of stimulus into the economy.... my issues are more akin to Romney's. I have an issue with the amount of money - and I have huge issues with how that money was wasted instead of spent in a way that could have - and should have - put us in a much stronger position for a sustainable recovery. (Key word in that sentence: sustainable).

 

[Sallow]

Really?

Not "it shouldn't have even existed"?

So basically he supports the trillion dollar waste.

Why does this guy keep getting recycled each election?

This is the exact reason why the republican party is really just democrat lite.

Corrupt corporate liberals have no problem spending money. They just have problems with money going anywhere except to the corporate interests that put them into office.

We live in an economy that's 70% consumer driven and you want to stop spending money?

Really?

 

[Paulie]

So, let's review: Romney said the 'stimulus could have been better directed'.

Hmmm. OK. Let's take a look at a few of the projects funded by said stimulus:

Forest Service to Replace Windows in Visitor Center - Closed in 2007 (Amboy, WA) - $554,763
Despite having no plans to reopen a shuttered visitor center at Mount St. Helens in Washington State,
the U.S. Forest Service is spending more than $554,000 to replace its windows. One government official likened it to “keeping a vacant house in good repair,” while another official noted that there is hope to find some purpose for the building in the future, whether as a hotel, science camp or restaurant.

“Dance Draw” - Interactive Dance Software Development (Charlotte, NC) - $762,372
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte received more than $760,000 in stimulus funds to help
develop a computerized choreography program that its creators believe could lead to a YouTube-like
“Dance Tube” online application. The grant says UNC-Charlotte will “define an evolving system that
assists in the design and production of interactive dance performances with real-time audience
interaction.”

North Shore Connector to Professional Sports Stadiums, Casino (Pittsburgh, PA) - $62 million
In February 2009, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell called Pittsburgh’s North Shore Connector “a
tragic mistake,” leaving taxpayers wondering why the project recently received a $62.5 million windfall from the U.S. Department of Transportation. The project would allow the Port Authority of Allegheny County to extend the city’s light rail under the Allegheny River to the new Rivers Casino,as well as to its two professional sports arenas, PNC Park (home of the Pirates) and Heinz Field (home of the Steelers).Unfortunately, the North Shore Connector has been plagued with problems since its
inception.

FEMA Stalls Two Texas Fire Stations More Than a Year, Increases Costs (San Antonio, TX) - $7.3 million
The City of San Antonio is hoping that there aren’t any fires for at least a year in the vicinity of two
planned fire stations, thanks to “help” from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
FEMA awarded $7.3 million to the city for construction of fire stations #50 and #51,
38 but the projects have become so mired in red tape it is not clear when they will be built.

Abandoned Train Station Converted Into Museum (Glassboro, NJ) - $1.2 million
Taxpayers may not be happy to learn that they are paying for one broken down train station twice. The Glassboro train station was built in 1860 and closed in 1971. Unused for nearly 40 years, it now sits boarded up and riddled with graffiti. In 2002, the Borough of Glassboro, New Jersey received nearly a quarter of a million dollars from the U.S. Department of Transportation to purchase the train station from Conrail. At that time, officials hoped to incorporate the station into the regional NJ Transit system. But those plans fell through, and since then local officials have been looking for a way to fund renovations to put the building to some use.

Ants Talk. Taxpayers Listen (San Francisco, CA) - $1.9 million
The California Academy of Sciences is receiving nearly $2 million to send researchers to the Southwest Indian Ocean Islands and east Africa, to capture, photograph, and analyze thousands of exotic ants. The photographs of the ants – over 3,000 species’ worth, according to the grant proposal – will be posted on AntWeb, a website devoted to organizing and displaying pictures and information on the world’s thousands of ant species.

That's 6. It appears that Romney may have a valid point.

I can provide more, Senators McCain and Coburn have provided a report of hundreds.

Are you still not getting it??? You've got to be kidding me, CG.

Hmm, how do I put this so you can understand my point...

Ok...I'll start by saying that I don't disagree with Romney, or you, or anyone else, that the money could have been better directed.

This being said, it does not mean that it was the right thing to do. Fiscal conservatives and tea partiers do not want the government spending their way out of problems anymore. We don't want the debt, the deficits, the monetary inflation that ensues, the increased taxes to pay for it, etc.

So whether or not the money might have had better places to be spent, is IRRELEVANT.

And the point I was making with this thread, is that conservatives are not going to get what they want if they vote for Romney, based on this line of thinking about the stimulus.

Maybe you never really thought it was a bad idea, who knows. I honestly don't know what your thoughts were on it at the time Obama was trying to get it passed. But I hated it, and I still do. I don't think the money could have been "better spent". I think it never should have been spent at all.

Oh, ok. So, it's not what he said, it's what he said that you take issue with? Yea, that's clear. LMAO.

The money was spent. He gave a perfectly reasonable response - one which we both appear to agree with.... the money could have been better spent. We both have an issue that the money was spent at all. On that, I lean towards agreeing with you. However, I am practical enough - despite my fiscal conservativism - to recognize that we had to inject some kind of stimulus into the economy.... my issues are more akin to Romney's. I have an issue with the amount of money - and I have huge issues with how that money was wasted instead of spent in a way that could have - and should have - put us in a much stronger position for a sustainable recovery. (Key word in that sentence: sustainable).

We had to go through all this just for you to admit you support liberal keynesian spending policies?