Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress

[Foxfyre]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

6. Audit the Federal Reserve.

7. Stop the bailout of union and government pensions and end tax-payer funded retirement programs for all government employees.

8. Keep the Internet from being regulated by bureaucrats.

9. Test all future and present judges on the content of the Constitution and publish the results online.

10. Pass the following law: “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”

11. Other than their salaries which must be approved by a majority of voters, Congress will vote itself no benefits that are not also extended to all citizens of the land.

12. Block the implementation of Sharia law in the United States.

13. Protect Our Second Amendment Rights.

14. Amend the Constitution to grant citizenship to only naturalized citizens and persons born who have one or two parents who are legal citixzens. Support State anti-illegal immigration legislation.

15. Other than provision for immediate necessary humanitarian assistance, pass laws providing no government assistance of any kind to illegals and apply harsh penalities to those who knowlingly employ, house, transport, or provide aid and comfort to those who are in the country illegally.

16. Abolish the Department of Education.

17. Return all Federal lands to the states.

18. Implement an across the board flat tax system, end the income tax, and abolish the IRS.

19. Work for the privatization of Social Security.

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

 

[Foxfyre]

And in case you don't think repeal of ObamaCare should be #1 on the list, consider that Congress, all federal employees, and all unions plus a few other stubborn entities were initially exempted from the act. And you won't find it in your basic leftwing media, but there is also this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Uu_tI0hTw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Uu_tI0hTw[/ame]

We need to do this before there is irreversible damage done.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

Not gonna happen. Insurance companies paid good money to get the bill, they're not going to let it get repealed..

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

The Bush tax cuts are a fantasy. The longer they stay in existence, the longer it will take us to get out of the hole we're currently in.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

This would guarantee a Democratic victory in 2012, as soon as every aging tea partier realizes that it includes their Social Security, Medicare, etc. People are all in favor of cutting programs that don't affect them.

The problem is, every single American would be affected by your suggestion.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress.

Go ask your postal carrier if they support that plan. Or an elementary school teacher. You're deluded if you think that it would be helpful to cut the wages of millions of middle class Americans.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

I hate to break it to you, but whether something is "Constitutional" or not is an opinion, not fact.

6. Audit the Federal Reserve.

This I agree with 100%.

7. Stop the bailout of union and government pensions and end tax-payer funded retirement programs for all government employees.

So you think that people who've worked their entire lives should be denied the pension that their contract promises them?

8. Keep the Internet from being regulated by bureaucrats.

I'm not worried about "bureaucrats" regulating the internet. I'm much more concerned by mega-conglomerates regulating the internet.

9. Test all future and present judges on the content of the Constitution and publish the results online.

Once again, this is opinion, not fact.

10. Pass the following law: “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”

What laws have been passed recently that don't affect Senators or Reps?

11. Other than their salaries which must be approved by a majority of voters, Congress will vote itself no benefits that are not also extended to all citizens of the land.

I have no idea what this means.

12. Block the implementation of Sharia law in the United States.

And here's my favorite boogey man of them all. I agree, Sharia law should be blocked.

But it would never happen. This is just fearmongering nonsense.

13. Protect Our Second Amendment Rights.

From who? Who's trying to take away your guns?

14. Amend the Constitution to grant citizenship to only naturalized citizens and persons born who have one or two parents who are legal citixzens. Support State anti-illegal immigration legislation.

Ah, so you're another one of those "Strict Constitutionalists" - except for the parts you don't like.

15. Other than provision for immediate necessary humanitarian assistance, pass laws providing no government assistance of any kind to illegals and apply harsh penalities to those who knowlingly employ, house, transport, or provide aid and comfort to those who are in the country illegally.

The answer to illegal immigration is to punish the companies making millions off illegal labor, not the illegal immigrants themselves.

16. Abolish the Department of Education.

Why?

17. Return all Federal lands to the states.

So, no National Parks?

18. Implement an across the board flat tax system, end the income tax, and abolish the IRS.

Are you arguing for a flat tax (which is an income tax), or the "fair" tax?

19. Work for the privatization of Social Security.

Because we know that it's a good idea to trust Wall Street with the livelyhood of millions of Americans, right?

We've seen how that's been working...

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Once again, everyone has their own interpretation of the Constitution, and nothing makes yours any more valid than mine, or anyone else's.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

Done, and done.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not a bad list... good start

 

[thereisnospoon]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

6. Audit the Federal Reserve.

7. Stop the bailout of union and government pensions and end tax-payer funded retirement programs for all government employees.

8. Keep the Internet from being regulated by bureaucrats.

9. Test all future and present judges on the content of the Constitution and publish the results online.

10. Pass the following law: “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”

11. Other than their salaries which must be approved by a majority of voters, Congress will vote itself no benefits that are not also extended to all citizens of the land.

12. Block the implementation of Sharia law in the United States.

13. Protect Our Second Amendment Rights.

14. Amend the Constitution to grant citizenship to only naturalized citizens and persons born who have one or two parents who are legal citixzens. Support State anti-illegal immigration legislation.

15. Other than provision for immediate necessary humanitarian assistance, pass laws providing no government assistance of any kind to illegals and apply harsh penalities to those who knowlingly employ, house, transport, or provide aid and comfort to those who are in the country illegally.

16. Abolish the Department of Education.

17. Return all Federal lands to the states.

18. Implement an across the board flat tax system, end the income tax, and abolish the IRS.

19. Work for the privatization of Social Security.

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

You'll get no arguments from me.

 

[Greenbeard]

And in case you don't think repeal of ObamaCare should be #1 on the list, consider that Congress, all federal employees, and all unions plus a few other stubborn entities were initially exempted from the act.

"Exempted from the act" is a pretty vague and meaningless statement. As are the assertions that so-and-so is "exempt from ObamaCare" due to a waiver (when what one means to say is that the annual benefit floor has been waived for certain plans).

The world operates in specifics. So talk in specifics.

And you won't find it in your basic leftwing media, but there is also this:

True, in order to know about things like that you'd need to dip into right-wing news sources like The New York Times.

 

[Foxfyre]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

Not gonna happen. Insurance companies paid good money to get the bill, they're not going to let it get repealed.

I'm not so sure. When you have a strong plurality of voters wanting its repeal, it's do-able. More especially when NO Democrat incumbant who openly boasted of his approval of this particular legislation won re-election this month. I haven't heard anybody who thinks Congress shouldn't initiate some reform in the system. But the existing law isn't the way to go.

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

The Bush tax cuts are a fantasy. The longer they stay in existence, the longer it will take us to get out of the hole we're currently in.

Most credible economists as well as most non partisan economic think tanks disagree with you. Most believe we won't get out of the hole any time soon unless we give businesses assurances that it is safe to go ahead and move capital and invest again.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

This would guarantee a Democratic victory in 2012, as soon as every aging tea partier realizes that it includes their Social Security, Medicare, etc. People are all in favor of cutting programs that don't affect them.

The problem is, every single American would be affected by your suggestion.

You wouldn't be able to make such deep cuts in benefits already obligated. But you sure could start the process of cutting out waste, graft, and start reforming the system now and begin weaning folks off their dependencies on the government. There are all sorts of ways to reform the system without screwing those the government forced into dependency.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress

Go ask your postal carrier if they support that plan. Or an elementary school teacher. You're deluded if you think that it would be helpful to cut the wages of millions of middle class Americans.

Again you cannot ethically break contractual agreements. But having family members who are or who have been postal carriers, they see numrous ways to make the system less costly and more efficient. The vast majority of new jobs created since Obama took office have been in government and government employees make far more money and receive much better benefits than comparable workers in the private sector. That needs to come to a screeching halt. For certain all those workers are not necessary, and many of the cuts could be accomplished by simply not replacing any new people in non essential jobs.

I don't know too many elementary teachers who receive their salaries from the Federal government.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

I hate to break it to you, but whether something is "Constitutional" or not is an opinion, not fact.

Hmmm. I wonder of Constitutional Professor Barack Obama would agree with you on that? Many of us believe the Constitution has served us well by going with original intent which was not the least bit ambiguous.

6. Audit the Federal Reserve

.

This I agree with 100%.

Good

That's enough to chew on for now. We'll get to the rest soon enough.

 

[Jon]

Go ask your postal carrier if they support that plan.

You mean the guy who brings me my unsolicited advertisements?

Or an elementary school teacher.

They are paid by the states, not the federal government.

The answer to illegal immigration is to punish the companies making millions off illegal labor, not the illegal immigrants themselves.

Or, you know, both.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

Not gonna happen. Insurance companies paid good money to get the bill, they're not going to let it get repealed..

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

The Bush tax cuts are a fantasy. The longer they stay in existence, the longer it will take us to get out of the hole we're currently in.



This would guarantee a Democratic victory in 2012, as soon as every aging tea partier realizes that it includes their Social Security, Medicare, etc. People are all in favor of cutting programs that don't affect them.

The problem is, every single American would be affected by your suggestion.


Go ask your postal carrier if they support that plan. Or an elementary school teacher. You're deluded if you think that it would be helpful to cut the wages of millions of middle class Americans.


I hate to break it to you, but whether something is "Constitutional" or not is an opinion, not fact.


This I agree with 100%.


So you think that people who've worked their entire lives should be denied the pension that their contract promises them?


I'm not worried about "bureaucrats" regulating the internet. I'm much more concerned by mega-conglomerates regulating the internet.


Once again, this is opinion, not fact.


What laws have been passed recently that don't affect Senators or Reps?


I have no idea what this means.


And here's my favorite boogey man of them all. I agree, Sharia law should be blocked.

But it would never happen. This is just fearmongering nonsense.


From who? Who's trying to take away your guns?


Ah, so you're another one of those "Strict Constitutionalists" - except for the parts you don't like.


The answer to illegal immigration is to punish the companies making millions off illegal labor, not the illegal immigrants themselves.


Why?


So, no National Parks?


Are you arguing for a flat tax (which is an income tax), or the "fair" tax?


Because we know that it's a good idea to trust Wall Street with the livelyhood of millions of Americans, right?

We've seen how that's been working...

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Once again, everyone has their own interpretation of the Constitution, and nothing makes yours any more valid than mine, or anyone else's.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

Done, and done.

Never underestimate the power of the people to demand an unjust law be overturned. The insurance lobby is not that powerful. Besides, it's a win-win for insurance companies. They are all in the black anyway.

Wrong. spending cuts accompanied by fiscal responsibility.
It's OUR money.
National Parks are not a priority. These could all be maintained by the States.
Of course we could rid ourselves of several thousand unneeded federal employees and their over the top wages and benefits.
There is a need for a whole house cleaning. Government is supposed to serve the people. Not the other way around.
The Brits probably thought Sharia law was never a possibility. But now England has Sharia courts.
Social Security is a bunk ponzi scheme. Without drastic reform, SS is out of business.
By the time I get to retirement age, SS funds will be depleted.
The last two years, SS has denied COLA increases. What's that tell ya?
Place troops at our southern border. Make sure they can all yell very loud in Spanish GO HOME!
Yes, prosecute all employers that hire illegals. make the punishment so draconian as to push the limits of "cruel and unusual punishment".

 

[MaggieMae]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

6. Audit the Federal Reserve.

7. Stop the bailout of union and government pensions and end tax-payer funded retirement programs for all government employees.

8. Keep the Internet from being regulated by bureaucrats.

9. Test all future and present judges on the content of the Constitution and publish the results online.

10. Pass the following law: “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”

11. Other than their salaries which must be approved by a majority of voters, Congress will vote itself no benefits that are not also extended to all citizens of the land.

12. Block the implementation of Sharia law in the United States.

13. Protect Our Second Amendment Rights.

14. Amend the Constitution to grant citizenship to only naturalized citizens and persons born who have one or two parents who are legal citixzens. Support State anti-illegal immigration legislation.

15. Other than provision for immediate necessary humanitarian assistance, pass laws providing no government assistance of any kind to illegals and apply harsh penalities to those who knowlingly employ, house, transport, or provide aid and comfort to those who are in the country illegally.

16. Abolish the Department of Education.

17. Return all Federal lands to the states.

18. Implement an across the board flat tax system, end the income tax, and abolish the IRS.

19. Work for the privatization of Social Security.

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

You expect all that in one legislative year? Surely you jest. Hey, I'd like to look like I did when I was 30, have all the money I need to live comfortably and give away the rest to the needy, which are only two on my list of pure pipedreams.

 

[uscitizen]

I figure at the top of their list is to keep their cell phone numbers private.

 

[edthecynic]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress

Rock-Headed Proposals would be more accurate!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Never underestimate the power of the people to demand an unjust law be overturned. The insurance lobby is not that powerful. Besides, it's a win-win for insurance companies. They are all in the black anyway.

Wrong. spending cuts accompanied by fiscal responsibility.
It's OUR money.
National Parks are not a priority. These could all be maintained by the States.
Of course we could rid ourselves of several thousand unneeded federal employees and their over the top wages and benefits.
There is a need for a whole house cleaning. Government is supposed to serve the people. Not the other way around.
The Brits probably thought Sharia law was never a possibility. But now England has Sharia courts.
Social Security is a bunk ponzi scheme. Without drastic reform, SS is out of business.
By the time I get to retirement age, SS funds will be depleted.
The last two years, SS has denied COLA increases. What's that tell ya?
Place troops at our southern border. Make sure they can all yell very loud in Spanish GO HOME!
Yes, prosecute all employers that hire illegals. make the punishment so draconian as to push the limits of "cruel and unusual punishment".

"Sharia Courts" does not equal "Sharia Law", which I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out. Sharia law certainly isn't the law of the land in England. We have Beth Din courts in the US - do you consider yourself "under" Talmudic law?

Social Security is not as bad off as you seem to think it is.

And, the whole myth that government employees are paid more than the same private sector jobs is just that - a myth. It's simply not true. Ask any lawyer with the PD's office, or the DA's office.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

Not gonna happen. Insurance companies paid good money to get the bill, they're not going to let it get repealed.

I'm not so sure. When you have a strong plurality of voters wanting its repeal, it's do-able. More especially when NO Democrat incumbant who openly boasted of his approval of this particular legislation won re-election this month. I haven't heard anybody who thinks Congress shouldn't initiate some reform in the system. But the existing law isn't the way to go.

Specifically, what parts of the law do you disagree with?

Most credible economists as well as most non partisan economic think tanks disagree with you. Most believe we won't get out of the hole any time soon unless we give businesses assurances that it is safe to go ahead and move capital and invest again.

This is also not true, unless you're being particularly partisan about who you consider "credible".

Here's a statement signed by 450 economists, including 10 Nobel winners, opposing the Bush tax cuts.
http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf

You wouldn't be able to make such deep cuts in benefits already obligated. But you sure could start the process of cutting out waste, graft, and start reforming the system now and begin weaning folks off their dependencies on the government. There are all sorts of ways to reform the system without screwing those the government forced into dependency.

If there are so many ways, how come it's never been done? Every politician that ever ran for office promises to clean up "waste, fraud and abuse". But they're NEVER able to say HOW.

"Waste, fraud and abuse" is political doublespeak.

Again you cannot ethically break contractual agreements. But having family members who are or who have been postal carriers, they see numrous ways to make the system less costly and more efficient. The vast majority of new jobs created since Obama took office have been in government and government employees make far more money and receive much better benefits than comparable workers in the private sector. That needs to come to a screeching halt. For certain all those workers are not necessary, and many of the cuts could be accomplished by simply not replacing any new people in non essential jobs.

This is also a myth. Public sector jobs (while average, may pay more) are NOT better paying than equivalent private sector jobs. Ask any lawyer with the PD's office or the DA's office if you don't believe me.

I don't know too many elementary teachers who receive their salaries from the Federal government.

True.

Hmmm. I wonder of Constitutional Professor Barack Obama would agree with you on that? Many of us believe the Constitution has served us well by going with original intent which was not the least bit ambiguous.

That's the problem right there - determining "intent". Seeing as how all the framers are dead, it's pretty hard to know for sure what they're "intent" was.

6. Audit the Federal Reserve

.

This I agree with 100%.

Good

That's enough to chew on for now. We'll get to the rest soon enough.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not gonna happen. Insurance companies paid good money to get the bill, they're not going to let it get repealed.

I'm not so sure. When you have a strong plurality of voters wanting its repeal, it's do-able. More especially when NO Democrat incumbant who openly boasted of his approval of this particular legislation won re-election this month. I haven't heard anybody who thinks Congress shouldn't initiate some reform in the system. But the existing law isn't the way to go.

Specifically, what parts of the law do you disagree with?




This is also not true, unless you're being particularly partisan about who you consider "credible".

Here's a statement signed by 450 economists, including 10 Nobel winners, opposing the Bush tax cuts.
http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf


If there are so many ways, how come it's never been done? Every politician that ever ran for office promises to clean up "waste, fraud and abuse". But they're NEVER able to say HOW.

"Waste, fraud and abuse" is political doublespeak.


This is also a myth. Public sector jobs (while average, may pay more) are NOT better paying than equivalent private sector jobs. Ask any lawyer with the PD's office or the DA's office if you don't believe me.


True.




That's the problem right there - determining "intent". Seeing as how all the framers are dead, it's pretty hard to know for sure what they're "intent" was.

.

This I agree with 100%.

Good

That's enough to chew on for now. We'll get to the rest soon enough.

First we have reams of writings expressing the thoughts and debates among the Founders in exhaustive detail. There is little ambiguity in what they intended when they put together the U.S. Constitution.

Second, I oppose any federal law that presumes to tell me that I am required to buy any product or be fined or that presumes to dictate to any business what benefits it must furnish to its employees or be fined. Then we can get into the restrictions and regulations and mandates that will be placed on healthcare providers and the literally hundreds of new bureaucracies that will be necessary to adminster this monstrosity, and it is a no brainer that it is and should be deeply unpopular with freedom loving American people.

And finally, you won't be able to convince me that Federal workers are not much better off at the expense of the tax payer than the private sector is these days.

At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

And bear in mind that the Obama administration has added a LOT of new federal employees.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm not so sure. When you have a strong plurality of voters wanting its repeal, it's do-able. More especially when NO Democrat incumbant who openly boasted of his approval of this particular legislation won re-election this month. I haven't heard anybody who thinks Congress shouldn't initiate some reform in the system. But the existing law isn't the way to go.

Specifically, what parts of the law do you disagree with?




This is also not true, unless you're being particularly partisan about who you consider "credible".

Here's a statement signed by 450 economists, including 10 Nobel winners, opposing the Bush tax cuts.
http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf


If there are so many ways, how come it's never been done? Every politician that ever ran for office promises to clean up "waste, fraud and abuse". But they're NEVER able to say HOW.

"Waste, fraud and abuse" is political doublespeak.


This is also a myth. Public sector jobs (while average, may pay more) are NOT better paying than equivalent private sector jobs. Ask any lawyer with the PD's office or the DA's office if you don't believe me.


True.




That's the problem right there - determining "intent". Seeing as how all the framers are dead, it's pretty hard to know for sure what they're "intent" was.

First we have reams of writings expressing the thoughts and debates among the Founders in exhaustive detail. There is little ambiguity in what they intended when they put together the U.S. Constitution.

Second, I oppose any federal law that presumes to tell me that I am required to buy any product or be fined or that presumes to dictate to any business what benefits it must furnish to its employees or be fined. Then we can get into the restrictions and regulations and mandates that will be placed on healthcare providers and the literally hundreds of new bureaucracies that will be necessary to adminster this monstrosity, and it is a no brainer that it is and should be deeply unpopular with freedom loving American people.

And finally, you won't be able to convince me that Federal workers are not much better off at the expense of the tax payer than the private sector is these days.

At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

And bear in mind that the Obama administration has added a LOT of new federal employees.

You're using a false dichotomy. Yes, a lawyer on government payroll makes more than a wal-mart checkout clerk. But they still make much less than a partner at a law firm.

Public sector jobs are mostly degree-based, specialized. Private sector jobs are mostly not. For instance, a UPS truck driver makes more than a Postal employee. A doctor working for a VA hospital makes less than a doctor at a private hospital.

 

[Foxfyre]

Specifically, what parts of the law do you disagree with?




This is also not true, unless you're being particularly partisan about who you consider "credible".

Here's a statement signed by 450 economists, including 10 Nobel winners, opposing the Bush tax cuts.
http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf


If there are so many ways, how come it's never been done? Every politician that ever ran for office promises to clean up "waste, fraud and abuse". But they're NEVER able to say HOW.

"Waste, fraud and abuse" is political doublespeak.


This is also a myth. Public sector jobs (while average, may pay more) are NOT better paying than equivalent private sector jobs. Ask any lawyer with the PD's office or the DA's office if you don't believe me.


True.




That's the problem right there - determining "intent". Seeing as how all the framers are dead, it's pretty hard to know for sure what they're "intent" was.

First we have reams of writings expressing the thoughts and debates among the Founders in exhaustive detail. There is little ambiguity in what they intended when they put together the U.S. Constitution.

Second, I oppose any federal law that presumes to tell me that I am required to buy any product or be fined or that presumes to dictate to any business what benefits it must furnish to its employees or be fined. Then we can get into the restrictions and regulations and mandates that will be placed on healthcare providers and the literally hundreds of new bureaucracies that will be necessary to adminster this monstrosity, and it is a no brainer that it is and should be deeply unpopular with freedom loving American people.

And finally, you won't be able to convince me that Federal workers are not much better off at the expense of the tax payer than the private sector is these days.

At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

And bear in mind that the Obama administration has added a LOT of new federal employees.

You're using a false dichotomy. Yes, a lawyer on government payroll makes more than a wal-mart checkout clerk. But they still make much less than a partner at a law firm.

Public sector jobs are mostly degree-based, specialized. Private sector jobs are mostly not. For instance, a UPS truck driver makes more than a Postal employee. A doctor working for a VA hospital makes less than a doctor at a private hospital.

No I'm not. One of my closest friends is a physician at the local V.A. She makes an excellent salary with superb benefits and a retirement plan to die for, all at taxpayer expense, plus the government also pays her malpractice insurance--this is a huge expense for any physician--and she can retire with full benefits after 20 years of service leaving her plenty of time to engage in a new career with its own benefits and retirement.

The average UPS driver makes about $25/hr plus pretty good benefits, pays into his own retirement fund, and generally retires when he can't keep up the pace any more.

The average mail carrier earns about $24/hr plus all double overtime, receives better benefits than the UPS driver, all at taxpayer expense, has a lucrative retirement plan all at taxpayer expense, and can retire with full benefits in 20 years or even better benefits if he stays for up to 30 years.

Private physicians and UPS drivers earn only what the private sector is willing to pay for and, unless you use their services, you don't contribute a dime for them to be able to earn a living. Their productivity mostly increases the overall economy.

You, the tax payer, pay for every dime of salary and benefits received by the federal worker whether or not you utilize their services. Their productivity mostly drains the overall economy as it is unlikely they will contribute anywhere close to what they take out of it.

I know that some federal workers are necessary and I do not begrudge them receiving fair compensation for the work that they do.

But it is seriously out of balance at this time.

 

[loosecannon]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

20 Rock-Hard Proposals for the New Congress
1. Repeal ObamaCare . . . Now!

2. Keep all the about-to-expire Bush Tax Cuts.

3. Implement an immediate 15 percent across-the-board spending cut.

4. Implement an immediate government hiring freeze and cut all wages by 15 percent, including Congress.

5. Implement the following test on all legislation: 1. Is it CONSTITUTIONAL? 2. If it’s Constitutional, do we NEED it? 3. If it’s Constitutional and we need it, can we AFFORD IT? 4. Is it best left to the STATES to implement?

6. Audit the Federal Reserve.

7. Stop the bailout of union and government pensions and end tax-payer funded retirement programs for all government employees.

8. Keep the Internet from being regulated by bureaucrats.

9. Test all future and present judges on the content of the Constitution and publish the results online.

10. Pass the following law: “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”

11. Other than their salaries which must be approved by a majority of voters, Congress will vote itself no benefits that are not also extended to all citizens of the land.

12. Block the implementation of Sharia law in the United States.

13. Protect Our Second Amendment Rights.

14. Amend the Constitution to grant citizenship to only naturalized citizens and persons born who have one or two parents who are legal citixzens. Support State anti-illegal immigration legislation.

15. Other than provision for immediate necessary humanitarian assistance, pass laws providing no government assistance of any kind to illegals and apply harsh penalities to those who knowlingly employ, house, transport, or provide aid and comfort to those who are in the country illegally.

16. Abolish the Department of Education.

17. Return all Federal lands to the states.

18. Implement an across the board flat tax system, end the income tax, and abolish the IRS.

19. Work for the privatization of Social Security.

20. Abide by the legal strictures outlined in the Tenth Amendment.

Discuss any or all of the above and add your suggestions for what needs to be done after the initial list is accomplished.

You said rock hard

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYqB0m4XYRQ[/ame]

 

[California Girl]

I kind of like the one that's been bouncing around the net for a few days.... The pay of our Congress Critter should be linked to that of front line troops. That's around $23,000 per annum.

 

[jeffrockit]

Received in my e-mail today with some revisions by me:

[

Go ask your postal carrier if they support that plan. Or an elementary school teacher. You're deluded if you think that it would be helpful to cut the wages of millions of middle class Americans.




So you think that people who've worked their entire lives should be denied the pension that their contract promises them?


.

Regarding cutting public sector jobs:
There was no problem with the private sector losing hundreds of thousands of jobs, why should the public sector be any different? Public sector jobs have doubled under the current administration while private sector jobs have been cut.
Democrats must fight federal workers on rising pay; it's no time for public sector salaries to soar
"The Defense Department has nearly 1,000 workers earning at least $170,000; back in 2005, it had just nine. Government physicians now make $179,500 on average; back in 2005, they made just $111,000 on average. Why should only part of the workforce in this country suffer. You do realize that public sector jobs are paid by tax dollars paid doing private sector jobs. Your argument makes no sense.

Regarding the pension plans:
The big problem are the unions which take in large sums of money in union dues. Rather than using these monies to fund these pension plans, they fund campaigns to elect those that will work to help unions. The union member has no voice in how this money is spent and may or may not support the candidate the union bosses support. The unions then go to the politician they helped get elected and ask that taxpayer money be used to supplement the pension plans they mismanaged. Why should the taxpayers pay for their mismanagement. The usual liberal argument is always about someone else paying for another's poor choices.