Robert Gibbs is quitting

[Jeremy]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

What's so Liberal about Obama?

Last I checked:

He supports the death penalty.
He has ramped up the War in Afghanistan while still keeping troops in Iraq.
The Pentagon Budget will be at an all time high next year.
Obama still supports The War on Drugs.
Obama has always and continues to support the Patriot Act and FISA bill.
Obama hasn't closed Gitmo.
Obama doesn't support Gay Marriage.
Obama has strengthened gun rights since taking office, one of the biggest gun control advocacy groups giving him an F for 2009.
Obama supported the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts for the top %.
Obama did not support the public option.

I could go on really. But why don't you amuse me and tell me what is so Liberal about Obama.

Sounds like a typical back peddling politician that sold himself as a liberal's best buddy just to take advantage of Bush's negativity to me.

...he still sucks.

 

[Meister]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

What's so Liberal about Obama?

Last I checked:

He supports the death penalty.
He has ramped up the War in Afghanistan while still keeping troops in Iraq.
The Pentagon Budget will be at an all time high next year.
Obama still supports The War on Drugs.
Obama has always and continues to support the Patriot Act and FISA bill.
Obama hasn't closed Gitmo.
Obama doesn't support Gay Marriage.
Obama has strengthened gun rights since taking office, one of the biggest gun control advocacy groups giving him an F for 2009.
Obama supported the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts for the top %.
Obama did not support the public option.

I could go on really. But why don't you amuse me and tell me what is so Liberal about Obama.

1. There are a lot of liberals who support the death penalty-Fail
2. He found out once in office he couldn't remove the troops without creating a vacuum in the middle east. He wanted to pull the troops out by found out being presidents....it's just not that easy- Fail
3. He found out that he couldn't close Gitmo. He wanted to, and ran on it.-Fail
4. Gay Marriage? It's a state issue right now. If it somehow came to his desk, he would sign it.-Fail
5. Gun Rights is not a liberal issue. There are a lot of liberals that have and would never give up their guns.-Fail
6. Obama had no choice in the Bush Tax Cuts, he didn't have a super majority any longer. He wanted to raise taxes on the rich.-Fail
7. Obama wanted UHC, but had to settle with what was passed, knowing down the road he will get what he wants-Fail

I could go on and on also, Modbert. Obama is a Liberal, he just might not be Liberal enough for you. Please don't think of yourself as a middle of a road person, or just left of center, because your not.

 

[jillian]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

I think you'll find that the far left is as unhappy as the far right.

And when 'liberal' is used as a perjorative, it's kind of difficult to discuss actual issues.

You can agree or disagree with him, but the reality is that gitmo is still open, we're still in iraq, we've up'd the ante in afghanistan, there's no public option, he caved on tax cuts for the rich, and he doesn't believe in gay marriage.... (though he is 'reassessing').

i think he's a pragmatist. i don't see him as an idealogue.

which is why the entire effort since january 2008 to paint him as one strikes me as silly.

 

[Oddball]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

What's so Liberal about Obama?

Last I checked:

He supports the death penalty. Since when is opposition to the death penalty an official "liberal"/DNC position?
He has ramped up the War in Afghanistan while still keeping troops in Iraq. Truman and LBJ, anyone?
The Pentagon Budget will be at an all time high next year. Ibid.
Obama still supports The War on Drugs. Since when did ending the War on (some) drugs become an official "liberal"/DNC position?
Obama has always and continues to support the Patriot Act and FISA bill. Which passed the Senate on a 98-1 vote, including lots of so-called "liberals".
Obama hasn't closed Gitmo. So, he lied...There's little more 'liberal" than that.
Obama doesn't support Gay Marriage. Big whoop.
Obama has strengthened gun rights since taking office, one of the biggest gun control advocacy groups giving him an F for 2009. Even a blind squirrel...
Obama supported the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts for the top %. Since when have "liberals" not cut deals to get the welfare state spending they want?
Obama did not support the public option. No, he couldn't get the votes for his stupid bill had he insisted upon having it...Big difference.

I could go on really. But why don't you amuse me and tell me what is so Liberal about Obama.

Yes, you could go on...But the bulk of your examples will end up slamming up against reality and find themselves wanting in that department.

 

[Si modo]

I call you a kid and a hack because you are a kid and hacks try to change definitions when they don't suit them.

Grown-ups actually know that hey have the power to change something about themselves.

Round and round we go, when we stop nobody knows. Same old song and dance with each thread. Having fun knocking my age? Heck, if we do this long enough you might be retired and I'll be in my 30's and you'll still be doing this.

I do find it quite amusing though that you have to hold on tight to the "you're just a kid" argument. You're one of the few posters to actually still do that, even a number of the posters who disagree with me can actually debate the merit of the points I made instead of what my age is.

Though what's next? Going to try and say I'm failing in college too?

Well, aside from the fact that you are a kid, that actually isn't any part of my argument.

Now, about your not liking a definition because it doesn't suit you? Hacks try to change definitions when they don't suit them. It rarely gets them very far, though.

God, I found that dealing with the stupid is tedious in another thread, now I am dealing with the fundamentally dishonest, which is also tedious.

 

[MaggieMae]

socialism
- 4 dictionary results
so·cial·ism
   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

If it walks and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

The other problem with applying this definition is that we are not a totally capitalist society in the first place. A capitalist "free market" would include no regulations (something Liberals typically want) and no protectionism (something Conservatives typically want). On top of that, there are people who would consider something like Medicare, and or taxes in general to be a form of socialism.

The line isn't whether we have socialist elements in our society, the line is what one considers to be socialism.

Bingo.

Socialism, Republican-Style by Michael Tennant

 

[Sarah G]

Next month he will step down.

Guess he knows its all hands on deck for 2012. He'll go down with the ship as well.

Gibbs to Leave as White House Press Secretary - NYTimes.com

Good, he's a little slow and vague sometimes. Obama needs somebody cool and quick like Dee Dee Myers or Mike McCurry. They were great at that job.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Next month he will step down.

Guess he knows its all hands on deck for 2012. He'll go down with the ship as well.

Gibbs to Leave as White House Press Secretary - NYTimes.com

Good, he's a little slow and vague sometimes. Obama needs somebody cool and quick like Dee Dee Myers or Mike McCurry. They were great at that job.

Oh palease. Who cares... anybody can get up at thepodium and blame it all on Bush and spew utter nonsense that only an idiot buys.

Shit, let's go batshit crazy.. how about Bill Mahar?

 

[Avatar4321]

About time that man left.

 

[Jeremy]

Wonder how his throwing arm is?

My Vikes need a QB.

 

[saveliberty]

are you people really this goofy. he has a higher approval rating than either reagan or clinton at this point in his term. you didn't win the senate.

apparently, there are an awful lot of people who don't think like you (thank heaven).

and it would be really really helpful if you defined socialism instead of just tossing the term around because that's the party line.

socialism
- 4 dictionary results
so·cial·ism
   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

If it walks and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

i've yet to see any indication that the president is a socialist... no matter how many times the same lies are repeated.

I see you have learned absolutely nothing since the Obama campaign started Jillian. Thanks, it is folks like you that will seal his fate in 2012. How long you going to try the same things and expect different results?

Gibbs thought Obama was some savior with the right to redefine America how ever he pleased. Now that reality has hit him in the face, he wants out. Quitter.

 

[MaggieMae]

Really.

You're the one trying to apply what can be considered a vague definition to define someone's character. Never mind the fact that you are hampered by your political ideology in this case. Obama isn't even a Liberal, never mind a socialist.

Never mind the fact that if you actually talked to some socialists (gasp! Believe it or not, they're not all their roaming the streets to suck the blood of younglings!) they would tell you Obama isn't a Socialist.

Even the UK doesn't practice pure Socialism.

 

[MaggieMae]

You're the one trying to apply what can be considered a vague definition to define someone's character. Never mind the fact that you are hampered by your political ideology in this case. Obama isn't even a Liberal, never mind a socialist.

As I said, typical hack bullshit. Attack a definition when it doesn't suit you.

.....and/or claim that you really can't nail down the definition because of one or another picayune difference(s) of form over substance.

No, because every definition you can find reads like this one from Encarta:

so·cial·ism [ sṓshə lìzəm ]
political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles

movement based on socialism: a political movement based on principles of socialism, typically advocating an end to private property and to the exploitation of workers

stage between capitalism and communism: in Marxist theory, the stage after the proletarian revolution when a society is changing from capitalism to communism, marked by pay distributed according to work done rather than need
Synonyms: collectivism, social democracy, public ownership, communism, communalism, classless society

And the USA is nowhere near even being close to that.

 

[saveliberty]

So you have to fit the strict definition of things in order to be that thing? If so, what race is the President? If his birth certificate doesn't meet the strict definition of a natural born citizen, how can he be President. You open up a whole can of worms with this line of reasoning. I would suggest letting us call him a socialist would serve you better.

 

[saveliberty]

This coming from people who misinterpret the Constitution to fit their ends at the drop of a hat.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

His ideology is socially liberal, true enough. But the term has been demonized in recent years so that younger people becoming interested in politics are not aware of what "liberalism" is really all about. They automatically equate liberalism and socialism as one, when that's simply not true. Ironically, the best description I've found is the one in the Urban Dictionary (which usually takes the more humorous approach). Check out the second definition.

Urban Dictionary: Liberal

 

[MaggieMae]

I call you a kid and a hack because you are a kid and hacks try to change definitions when they don't suit them.

Grown-ups actually know that hey have the power to change something about themselves.

Round and round we go, when we stop nobody knows. Same old song and dance with each thread. Having fun knocking my age? Heck, if we do this long enough you might be retired and I'll be in my 30's and you'll still be doing this.

I do find it quite amusing though that you have to hold on tight to the "you're just a kid" argument. You're one of the few posters to actually still do that, even a number of the posters who disagree with me can actually debate the merit of the points I made instead of what my age is.

Though what's next? Going to try and say I'm failing in college too?

Don't let criticism of your age get to you. Just remember that Mark Zuckerman is only 26! I too criticize the younger generation, but it's when they act (and act out) even younger than what's on their birth certificates.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did I read where someone said that Obama isn't a liberal?

What's so Liberal about Obama?

Last I checked:

He supports the death penalty.
He has ramped up the War in Afghanistan while still keeping troops in Iraq.
The Pentagon Budget will be at an all time high next year.
Obama still supports The War on Drugs.
Obama has always and continues to support the Patriot Act and FISA bill.
Obama hasn't closed Gitmo.
Obama doesn't support Gay Marriage.
Obama has strengthened gun rights since taking office, one of the biggest gun control advocacy groups giving him an F for 2009.
Obama supported the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts for the top %.
Obama did not support the public option.

I could go on really. But why don't you amuse me and tell me what is so Liberal about Obama.

Sounds like a typical back peddling politician that sold himself as a liberal's best buddy just to take advantage of Bush's negativity to me.

...he still sucks.

An honest diplomat, whether liberal or conservative, will always recognize that there are good points and bad points to both ideologies. But ideologies on their face can't operate countries. Accepting realities, which is often distasteful, does.

 

[Capitalist]

That's terrible news, Gibbs is quitting.
He reminded me so much of Truthmatters..........

Oh well, I'll have to get my laughs some other place.

 

[saveliberty]

The government hasn't showed up yet to get the snow off our cars, so I have to run out and sweep them off. I'll just deduct it from my tax bill in April.