Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

[Pete7469]

A couple mods have been in here trimming on the personal exchanges. Stick to topic. Lay off the personal. It's actually a good discussion. Don't ruin it. .

 

[westwall]

[

No it is YOU who is TOO lazy to read the PUBLISHED science papers that covers the topic of the thread, which is about changeable sea level effects on cities.

It is hilarious that this clod actually thinks citing science research is plagiarizing/copying when the a link is provided for EACH paper, which often includes just the Abstract (a common practice), sometime quoting a section of the paper. It is well within fair use copyright laws fella.

You keep presenting evidence that you are a fool.

You never had a Point you Moron.

Your Dishonest attempt was based on the Idea that If Holocene was as warm or warmer that now, that current warming wouldn't be AGW.
Right?
Of course, that would not have affected my OP, and we know that premise is Wrong my inadequatcy complex/Dishonest clown friend.
NOAA

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago
Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

....In summary, the mid-Holocene, roughly 6,000 years ago, was generally warmer than today during summer in the Northern Hemisphere. In some locations, this could be true for winter as well.
Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this Natural warming (aa: orbital changes), and we know without doubt that this proven "Astronomical" climate forcing mechanism CANNOT be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years.​

There goes ALL of your posts.
It's Sunset for Tommy.
Blow Me!
Bye!

You are wrong. No one knows what causes the ice ages, nor do we understand the causes of the climate cycle. All we do know is the planet cycles from warm/wet to cold/dry to warm/dry to cold/wet. This is well documented. All you have to back your silly religion are computer derived fiction.

 

[abu afak]

Almost every assertion in that article and the LINKED articles is debateable and indeed IS being debated. The wild frenzy about "Antarctica Melting" is NOT due to surface temps. It''s due to fractures in ice shelves due to glacial motion. In FACT -- the Sea Surf Temp at Pine Island Glacier (ground zero for the panic) looks like this.
.... ...
IN FACT -- the better explanation for calving of those shelves is that Pine Island and the REST of the west peninsula glaciers are positioned RIGHT ON TOP of active volcanic fractures. A fact that has gotten CLEARER in past 15 years or so..

But every paper you read about PIG will ADMIT that the studies of the FOOTING for this glacier are uncertain and IT SEEMS that the geology underlying the footing has been PRONE to slippage for quite some time.

All panic -- little "consensus"....

What Consensus?
Almost everyone says PIG is melting because of Air and especially Sea Temps.
(not cherry picking, just pg 1 Goog of Pine Island Melt)
ie.

ncbi/nlm/nih
Mechanisms driving variability in the Ocean Forcing of Pine Island Glacier
Mechanisms driving variability in the ocean forcing of Pine Island Glacier

NOAA.gov
Sensitivity of pine island glacier to observed Ocean Forcing
https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Bushuk_GRL2016.pdf

and for Catastrophic possibilities that woiuld raise SL almost immediately at any timed:
Meteorologist warns collapse of two Antarctic glaciers could flood every coastal city on Earth
"Two of Antarctica’s glaciers are holding our civilization hostage, meteorologist Eric Holthaus wrote in a piece for Grist. Pine Island and Thwaites are among the continent’s biggest and fastest-melting glaciers – and they could unleash 11 feet of sea level rise if they collapse. That’s enough to flood every coastal city on our planet."..."​

And with the Arctic melting/retreating, Greenland Ice melting/retreating, N America Glaciers melting, Andean Glaciers Melting, Himalayan Glaciers melting.....
WHY would it be a be a "Better explanation" than Antarctica following the Planetary trend and responding to rising air and Sea temps?

Why? So you can cherry pick a few inconclusive/random graphs for the Denier fan club.
That's why.
`

 

[abu afak]

...

You are wrong. No one knows what causes the ice ages, nor do we understand the causes of the climate cycle. All we do know is the planet cycles from warm/wet to cold/dry to warm/dry to cold/wet. This is well documented. All you have to back your silly religion are computer derived fiction.

I posted the known Cause for the Mid Holocene Warming from NOAA on the last page and the one previous.
And there are Many known causes of Ice Ages, etc. (Cyclic, Catastrophic, Astronomic, Geologic, etc)

Now back to your "English as a third language" class.
ooof.
`

 

[westwall]

...

You are wrong. No one knows what causes the ice ages, nor do we understand the causes of the climate cycle. All we do know is the planet cycles from warm/wet to cold/dry to warm/dry to cold/wet. This is well documented. All you have to back your silly religion are computer derived fiction.

I posted the known Cause for the Mid Holocene Warming from NOAA on the last page and the one previous.
And there are Many known causes of Ice Ages, etc. (Cyclic, Catastrophic, Astronomic, Geologic, etc)

Now back to your "English as a third language" class.
ooof.
`

No, yet again, you are wrong. There is no known cause. There are theories only. Learn about the subject before you spew your nonsense.

 

[abu afak]

No, yet again, you are wrong. There is No known Cause. There are theories only. Learn about the subject before you spew your nonsense.

You're a "no" Troll and have no business on this board.
That you have a position here is even more of a DISGRACE.
"No" is not an answer you clown.
As I said in my last, and you did NOT even touch, you "No" Troll:

Ice age - Wikipedia

6 Causes of ice ages

• 
  
  • 6.1 Changes in Earth's atmosphere
    • 6.1.1 Human-induced changes
  • 6.2 Position of the continents
  • 6.3 Fluctuations in ocean currents
  • 6.4 Uplift of the Tibetan plateau and surrounding mountain areas above the snowline
  • 6.5 Variations in Earth's orbit (Milankovitch cycles)
  • 6.6 Variations in the Sun's energy output
  • 6.7 Volcanism

You're a 70 IQ Disgrace to this board and a Troll.
SPLATTTTTT.
`

 

[skookerasbil]

C'mon now ....nobody has cared about the Miami sea level rise for over 10 years. There are about 4 billion photoshopped pictures of Miami 200 feet below the ocean with a 2015 sign!! Nobody takes this seriously except some internet Nutters.

 

[flacaltenn]

Almost everyone says PIG is melting because of Air and especially Sea Temps.

Almost everyone is NOT a consensus. There's a LOT of science about the poles that doesn't MAKE the hysteria media circuit BECAUSE it doesn't "bleed" enough. I showed you air and sst temps from around the PIG.

There ARE MANY other factors that don't get the light of day. But they are EQUALLY valid science and explanations. Nat Geo has an agenda.. SCIENCE does not..

 

[Sunsettommy]

It's all lies.

Sea levels don't change. Ask the Republicans. They know.

What are all lies?

No one here says there is no sea level change occurring, what is disputed is the often claimed acceleration of sea level rise.

 

[abu afak]

C'mon now ....nobody has cared about the Miami sea level rise for over 10 years.
There are about 4 billion photoshopped pictures of Miami 200 feet below the ocean with a 2015 sign!! Nobody takes this seriously except some internet Nutters.

What a piece of pure IDIOCY
My #16 to FCT:

https://gizmodo.com/why-are-sea-levels-in-miami-rising-so-much-faster-than-1797733450

Sea levels in South Florida have gone up about a Foot since the 1930s, but around 2011, the slow upward creep of the ocean seemed to kick into high gear, with tidal gauges recording much faster rates of sea level rise and residents noting a stark uptick in so-called “nuisance” floods.
A new study confirms that this was not Floridians’ imaginations: From 2011 to at least 2015, the rate of sea level rise across the Southeastern US shot up by a factor of Six, from 3-4 millimeters a year to 20, and a combination of oceanic and atmospheric processes seem to be responsible
[.....]
“The Miami area started getting almost an inch of sea level [rise] a year,” Hal Wanless, a coastal geologist at the University of Miami, told Gizmodo. “People noticed that.”
`​

 

[abu afak]

C'mon now ....nobody has cared about the Miami sea level rise for over 10 years.
There are about 4 billion photoshopped pictures of Miami 200 feet below the ocean with a 2015 sign!! Nobody takes this seriously except some internet Nutters.

What a piece of pure IDIOCY
My #16 to FlaCalTenn

https://gizmodo.com/why-are-sea-levels-in-miami-rising-so-much-faster-than-1797733450

Sea levels in South Florida have gone up about a Foot since the 1930s, but around 2011, the slow upward creep of the ocean seemed to kick into high gear, with tidal gauges recording much faster rates of sea level rise and residents noting a stark uptick in so-called “nuisance” floods.
A new study confirms that this was not Floridians’ imaginations: From 2011 to at least 2015, the rate of sea level rise across the Southeastern US shot up by a factor of Six, from 3-4 millimeters a year to 20, and a combination of oceanic and atmospheric processes seem to be responsible
[.....]
“The Miami area started getting almost an inch of sea level [rise] a year,” Hal Wanless, a coastal geologist at the University of Miami, told Gizmodo. “People noticed that.”
`​

 

[flacaltenn]

Mechanisms driving variability in the Ocean Forcing of Pine Island Glacier
Mechanisms driving variability in the ocean forcing of Pine Island Glacier

What I just told you about the WAIS (west Ant. Ice Shelf) is buried right in this abstract.

Pine Island Glacier (PIG) terminates in a rapidly melting ice shelf, and ocean circulation and temperature are implicated in the retreat and growing contribution to sea level rise of PIG and nearby glaciers. However, the variability of the ocean forcing of PIG has been poorly constrained due to a lack of multi-year observations. Here we show, using a unique record close to the Pine Island Ice Shelf (PIIS), that there is considerable oceanic variability at seasonal and interannual timescales, including a pronounced cold period from October 2011 to May 2013. This variability can be largely explained by two processes: cumulative ocean surface heat fluxes and sea ice formation close to PIIS; and interannual reversals in ocean currents and associated heat transport within Pine Island Bay, driven by a combination of local and remote forcing. Local atmospheric forcing therefore plays an important role in driving oceanic variability close to PIIS.

The ice shelves of the Amundsen Sea buttress a large portion of the West Antarctic ice sheet, protecting it from collapse1,2. The deep ocean temperatures close to the Amundsen Sea continental shelf are some of the warmest around Antarctica and have warmed by approximately 0.2 °C per decade since the early 1990s (refs 3, 4), although data on the Amundsen Sea continental shelf itself are sparse and no significant trend is evident5

If you look back at my post -- I just TOLD you what those mysterious "local forcings" are.. The glaciers in the WAIS are sitting on MASSIVE volcanic rifts that get LARGER everytime someone studies them.

So you NEED NOT warm the air or water to speed glacier movement or cause footing instability. Because SUBTERREAN temps can do that as well.

The air temp graph from SATELLITE is reliable. Composite studies from the very reporting ground stations and buoys are not. There has been no OVERALL warming trend of Antarctica since the satellite studies began in 1979..

 

[flacaltenn]

If you like, I've plotted both the RSS and UAH Southern Ocean temps from the same period and they are flat as well..

GLad to share them..

 

[flacaltenn]

It's all lies.

Sea levels don't change. Ask the Republicans. They know.

What are all lies?

No one here says there is no sea level change occurring, what is disputed is the often claimed acceleration of sea level rise.

But i don't think that Deany knows that about 1/3 of the observed Sea Level Rise in the past 80 years or so is simply from THERMAL EXPANSION of the water. No additional amounts of melting ice required.

 

[abu afak]

If you like, I've plotted both the RSS and UAH Southern Ocean temps from the same period and they are flat as well..

GLad to share them..

No, you're glad to BS/Link dump/add volume.
I refuted you, so you just RE-posted your silly links which DO NOT make a "better explanation" of Antaractic melting than the Sea-Land Temps that are melting everything else.
Shall I repost my links in full too?

Really, what goofiness.
You just reiterate the long version of your illogical premise.
bye II
`

BTW your sig size is RIDICULOUS.
Longer than, and Obscuring your posts.
a 2 line post buried in a 15?-line/height sig... with JPG and 2 quote boxes no less.
[consistent with your post content] It shows lack of common sense.
`

 

[flacaltenn]

If you like, I've plotted both the RSS and UAH Southern Ocean temps from the same period and they are flat as well..

GLad to share them..

No, you're glad to BS/Link dump/add volume.
I refuted you, so you just RE-posted your silly links which DO NOT make a "better explanation" of Antaractic melting than the Sea-Land Temps that are melting everything else.
Shall I reepost my links in full?

Really, what stupidity.
You just reiterate the premise after it's refuted.
bye II
`

Silly Links? I just re-used one of YOURS !!! If you're referring to the Sat data --- good LUCK refuting the most comprehensive and complete tool science has to measure WHOLE earth temperatures.

These Local Forcings are FAR more important than the air/sea temps for the region since they also include the "remote forcing" , OCEAN CONVEYOR currents that serve the entire planet. Have you ever STUDIED them?

They STABILIZE the entire planet using Ant. as a huge heat sink. Warm waters FLOOD to Ant an Cold waters flow FROM Ant. So when your link says "remote forcings" they are referencing these conveyors that can CHANGE LOCATION and volume..

 

[Indeependent]

This has been going on in many places in the nation for decades.
Now one of the biggest victims of AGW showing evidence of what is to come.
For all you warming deniers: you Clowns who say "it's colder than normal in Chicago today, so it can't be warming".
Would you write a 30 year mortgage on a Miami waterfront house?

Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market
Properties on the coast now trade at Discounts as flood waters and ‘king tides’ damp enthusiasm for oceanfront living
By Laura Kusisto and Arian Campo-Flores
Wall Street Journal - April 20, 2018
Rising Sea Levels Reshape Miami’s Housing Market

MIAMI—Concerns over rising sea levels and floods are beginning to reshape one of the country’s largest housing markets, with properties closer to sea level now trading at discounts to those at higher elevations.

Research published Friday in the journal of Environmental Research Letters shows that single-family homes in Miami-Dade County are rising in value more slowly near sea level than at higher elevations, as buyers weigh the possibilities of more-frequent minor flooding in the short term and the challenge of reselling...
[....]​

balance by subscription, but you get the picture.
`

Let me inform my son-in-law and his parents, whose house's are now worth more than ever.
WSJ! Give me a break!
Next thing you know, they'll report that what's for Wall Street is good for Main Stree.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Flacaltenn,

Ohhh now I understand who you are debating with, was puzzled thinking that you were arguing with nobody, now I know why.....

I had put that man on IGNORE yesterday, to stay away from him ravings.

Silly me!

 

[flacaltenn]

Almost everyone is NOT a consensus. There's a LOT of science about the poles that doesn't MAKE the hysteria media circuit BECAUSE it doesn't "bleed" enough. I showed you air and sst temps from around the PIG.

There ARE MANY other factors that don't get the light of day. But they are EQUALLY valid science and explanations. Nat Geo has an agenda.. SCIENCE does not..

IOW, you have NO answer to my post, (making mincemeat of you claim about "Better explanation") just take semantic issue with 'consensus.'
And there is no question there is a Heavy consensus of Climate Scientists on AGW.
Bye

I just MADE mince-meat of your argument by explaining YOUR OWN LINK to you.. And you can't engage on that. Abstracts are ADS for the authors. It's CLICK BAIT to get peers to look at their work. They highlight the popular trends and thinking and BURY the controversial. And also Abstracts are to PLACATE SPONSORS. The entity that PAID for your work expects you to advance their agenda.

I've read HUNDREDS of full papers on GW. And like the WashPo and the The National Enquirer -- the headline and the TEASER doesn't match the actual work..

 

[Sunsettommy]

If you like, I've plotted both the RSS and UAH Southern Ocean temps from the same period and they are flat as well..

GLad to share them..

No, you're glad to BS/Link dump/add volume.
I refuted you, so you just RE-posted your silly links which DO NOT make a "better explanation" of Antaractic melting than the Sea-Land Temps that are melting everything else.
Shall I reepost my links in full?

Really, what stupidity.
You just reiterate the premise after it's refuted.
bye II
`

Silly Links? I just re-used one of YOURS !!! If you're referring to the Sat data --- good LUCK refuting the most comprehensive and complete tool science has to measure WHOLE earth temperatures.

These Local Forcings are FAR more important than the air/sea temps for the region since they also include the "remote forcing" , OCEAN CONVEYOR currents that serve the entire planet. Have you ever STUDIED them?

They STABILIZE the entire planet using Ant. as a huge heat sink. Warm waters FLOOD to Ant an Cold waters flow FROM Ant. So when your link says "remote forcings" they are referencing these conveyors that can CHANGE LOCATION and volume..

Most people have no idea on the enormous amount of energy needed to melt that massive ice pack where over 90% of it is always below freezing year around. They think warm waters or warm air that is barely above freezing can melt it all down, which is absurd.