Riots in Tottenham

[alexa]

There has been massive riots in Tottenham, London after the police shot a local dead


BBC News - London police shooting: Dead man was minicab passenger

It appears that early peaceful protest exploded into riots and the burning of shops, police cars and other buildings.

26 police were injured.

BBC News - London unrest: Tottenham's 'anger' over police shooting

Although some people put this down to a small section from outside the community, there is also talk of the lack of trust and respect between police and the community similar to that of the 1980's

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is always apologists when the animals riot and kill. My personal opinion is that when faced with unlawful mass riots the police should shoot to kill anyone being violent.

 

[alexa]

There is always apologists when the animals riot and kill. My personal opinion is that when faced with unlawful mass riots the police should shoot to kill anyone being violent.

Well you would be very unhappy in the UK. We take killing someone very seriously.

 

[Swagger]

I don't think RGS is suggesting indiscriminately gunning down protestors, I think. Though his reputation could yet pove me wrong.

Anyway... Am I reading the apparent condemnation and subsequent sympathy with the rioters wrongly? A man, armed with an illegal weapon, fired at the police. One policeman we understand from Friday's press only narrowly avoided serious injury when his radio deflected a bullet. The armed gunman was shot dead whilst firing at police. I'd say that justice has been done.

To condone, or even to try and understand, the position of those rioting and looting is completely illogical. To go further and try to give their actions some spurious international significance by suggesting this criminal activity is somehow related to, of a symptom of, the world wide financial crisis is to demonstrate a truly unbelievable moral relativism. Though it's funny how the rioters focus their (supposed) anger on the shops selling plasma TVs. I guess they need to keep up with the local news in HD.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Anyone threatening a policeman's life in a riot should be shot. There are not enough cops EVER in a riot. No risk should be taken by several police to subdue a violent person when surrounded by hundreds of law breakers. Throw bricks, get shot, brandish a knife get shot. Tackle a cop get shot. You would be amazed how fast the riot ends if that starts happening.

 

[alexa]

Anyone threatening a policeman's life in a riot should be shot. There are not enough cops EVER in a riot. No risk should be taken by several police to subdue a violent person when surrounded by hundreds of law breakers. Throw bricks, get shot, brandish a knife get shot. Tackle a cop get shot. You would be amazed how fast the riot ends if that starts happening.

He wasn't threatening a policeman's life in a riot. Something which I am not sure of happened which apparently resulted in him being shot in a taxi but he had also fired at a policeman.

That is a separate issue to the riots which happened later. People are saying we will need to wait to see if this is an isolated incidence or whether it may give rise to copy cats in other areas of London.

Tottenham forms the core of the borough of Haringey, where a fast-rising total of well over 10,000 people are claiming jobseeker's allowance. In Tottenham itself, recent government figures showed there were 54 people chasing each registered employment vacancy. It would be wrong and unfair to damn the place as a slough of blight and turpitude, but the long, main Tottenham High Road provides few obvious outward signs of prosperity.

Worklessness and its associated subcultures are becoming more deeply ingrained, with Tottenham and neighbouring Edmonton recently failing in a bid to be made a economic enterprise zone and attempts to regenerate the White Hart Lane area threatened by the desire of wealthy Tottenham Hotspur Football Club to move elsewhere.

-snip-

Edmonton, which lies just across the borough border in Enfield, has become grimly associated with fatal stabbings of teenagers in recent years. Spending cuts have led to Haringey closing eight of 13 youth clubs with reductions in community police officer numbers soon to come: small sticking plasters that help stem the flow of blood in a city where violence against young people has long been rising ominously.

In such a climate, an event such as the shooting dead by police of 29 year-old father of four Mark Duggan on Thursday night is more likely to provide in some minds, especially young ones, a pretext, a rationale or an opportunity to jettison any respect for the law or regard for fellow citizens and let rip.

Tottenham riots: This could happen in a dozen boroughs | Dave Hill | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

There is talk that the rioters and looters came in from other areas.

The news is now reporting concern that there could be bodies in some of the buildings burnt.

 

[alexa]

Last night the rioting spread to other areas including Brixton which was where the main '81 riots were (I was working there at the time)

There has been a second night of rioting across London, with violence erupting in several of the capital's boroughs, from Brixton in the south to Enfield and Islington in the north and Walthamstow to the east.

What police are calling "copycat criminal activity" – some of it apparently part of an orchestrated plan – has so far resulted in 100 arrests.

Sunday night's rioting followed disturbances on Saturday night in Tottenham, which came after the fatal shooting by police of Mark Duggan, 29, on Thursday.

In a statement on Monday morning, the Metropolitan police said they were shocked at the levels of "disgraceful violence" that had left 35 officers injured.

"Officers responding to sporadic disorder in a number of boroughs made more than 100 arrests throughout last night and early this morning.

"This is in addition to the 61 arrests made on Saturday night and Sunday morning … Officers are shocked at the outrageous level of violence directed against them. At least nine officers were injured overnight in addition to the 26 injured on Saturday night.

"We will not tolerate this disgraceful violence. The investigation continues to bring these criminals to justice."

Shops in Enfield Town and the A10 retail park were vandalised and looted, and there were reports of two vehicles set on fire.

London riots spread south of Thames | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I would not be surprised if some of this was by organised gangs.

At the same time we saw from yesterday's link that these areas are full of the unemployed and youth gangs which cause the deaths of many innocent children. They tried to get economic input but were refused. The gangs are a disgrace to the UK.

A State has a responsibility to look out for all it's citizens. To give them all hope and opportunities. If not this kind of thing frequently happens....and history shows that, not any political viewpoint.

 

[mudwhistle]

There has been massive riots in Tottenham, London after the police shot a local dead


BBC News - London police shooting: Dead man was minicab passenger

It appears that early peaceful protest exploded into riots and the burning of shops, police cars and other buildings.

26 police were injured.

BBC News - London unrest: Tottenham's 'anger' over police shooting

Although some people put this down to a small section from outside the community, there is also talk of the lack of trust and respect between police and the community similar to that of the 1980's

The story said an illegal firearm was found inside the cab and that it had been fired. A bullet was found in the radio of one of the police officers. Course the story didn't say that the dead passenger fired the shot. That would be circumstantial evidence.

 

[L.K.Eder]

There is always apologists when the animals riot and kill. My personal opinion is that when faced with unlawful mass riots the police should shoot to kill anyone being violent.

animals, huh?

nice one

 

[alexa]

There has been massive riots in Tottenham, London after the police shot a local dead


BBC News - London police shooting: Dead man was minicab passenger

It appears that early peaceful protest exploded into riots and the burning of shops, police cars and other buildings.

26 police were injured.

BBC News - London unrest: Tottenham's 'anger' over police shooting

Although some people put this down to a small section from outside the community, there is also talk of the lack of trust and respect between police and the community similar to that of the 1980's

The story said an illegal firearm was found inside the cab and that it had been fired. A bullet was found in the radio of one of the police officers. Course the story didn't say that the dead passenger fired the shot. That would be circumstantial evidence.

Yes, they mention that in the first video I left although clearly there is a lot to to the story. It seems the family, friends and other locals wanted to know what had happened and the police left them waiting too long and then things took off. A lot of people just heard by Chinese whispers and the area has many gangs and high unemployment making a volatile 'anti police' reaction more likely.

Many locals are shocked at what has happened to their homes, shops and neighbourhood and for the first night it was suggested that people came in from nearby areas for the main looting and riotings.

Now you will see in my post previous to yours, last night saw several areas engage in 'copy cat' riots.

It does seem to be showing a situation which needs some attention in addition to all those who will be finding themselves in court today.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There has been massive riots in Tottenham, London after the police shot a local dead


BBC News - London police shooting: Dead man was minicab passenger

It appears that early peaceful protest exploded into riots and the burning of shops, police cars and other buildings.

26 police were injured.

BBC News - London unrest: Tottenham's 'anger' over police shooting

Although some people put this down to a small section from outside the community, there is also talk of the lack of trust and respect between police and the community similar to that of the 1980's

The story said an illegal firearm was found inside the cab and that it had been fired. A bullet was found in the radio of one of the police officers. Course the story didn't say that the dead passenger fired the shot. That would be circumstantial evidence.

Yes, they mention that in the first video I left although clearly there is a lot to to the story. It seems the family, friends and other locals wanted to know what had happened and the police left them waiting too long and then things took off. A lot of people just heard by Chinese whispers and the area has many gangs and high unemployment making a volatile 'anti police' reaction more likely.

Many locals are shocked at what has happened to their homes, shops and neighbourhood and for the first night it was suggested that people came in from nearby areas for the main looting and riotings.

Now you will see in my post previous to yours, last night saw several areas engage in 'copy cat' riots.

It does seem to be showing a situation which needs some attention in addition to all those who will be finding themselves in court today.

Deport the animals that are not citizens and next riot shoot to kill.

 

[L.K.Eder]

The story said an illegal firearm was found inside the cab and that it had been fired. A bullet was found in the radio of one of the police officers. Course the story didn't say that the dead passenger fired the shot. That would be circumstantial evidence.

Yes, they mention that in the first video I left although clearly there is a lot to to the story. It seems the family, friends and other locals wanted to know what had happened and the police left them waiting too long and then things took off. A lot of people just heard by Chinese whispers and the area has many gangs and high unemployment making a volatile 'anti police' reaction more likely.

Many locals are shocked at what has happened to their homes, shops and neighbourhood and for the first night it was suggested that people came in from nearby areas for the main looting and riotings.

Now you will see in my post previous to yours, last night saw several areas engage in 'copy cat' riots.

It does seem to be showing a situation which needs some attention in addition to all those who will be finding themselves in court today.

Deport the animals that are not citizens and next riot shoot to kill.

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

 

[alexa]

Uh Oh! doubts are arising concerning the killing which set all this in motion

Doubts have emerged over whether Mark Duggan, whose death at the hands of police sparked the weekend's Tottenham riots, was killed during an exchange of fire .

The Guardian understands that initial ballistics tests on a bullet, found lodged in a police radio worn by an officer during Thursday's incident, suggested it was police issue – and therefore had not been fired by Duggan.

-snip-

Initial reports from the IPCC were that during an apparent exchange of fire police officers from C019 fired two shots and Duggan died at the scene. The suggestion was that officers could have come under fire from a minicab carrying Duggan. Much of this assumption came from the fact that a bullet had lodged in a police radio worn by an officer at the scene – raising speculation he might have been fired at from the vehicle. A non-police issue handgun was also recovered at the scene where Duggan was shot dead in Ferry Road.

The latest developments come as one community organiser suggested the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use. It is likely to fuel anger on the streets of Tottenham and elsewhere in London if it provides evidence that officers were not under attack at the time they opened fire on Duggan.

The IPCC said on Sunday: "We await further forensic analysis to enable us to have a fuller and more comprehensive account of what shots were discharged, the sequence of events and what exactly happened. In the meantime we would request people are patient while we seek to find answers to the questions raised by this incident."

Doubts emerge over Duggan shooting as London burns | UK news | The Guardian

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes, they mention that in the first video I left although clearly there is a lot to to the story. It seems the family, friends and other locals wanted to know what had happened and the police left them waiting too long and then things took off. A lot of people just heard by Chinese whispers and the area has many gangs and high unemployment making a volatile 'anti police' reaction more likely.

Many locals are shocked at what has happened to their homes, shops and neighbourhood and for the first night it was suggested that people came in from nearby areas for the main looting and riotings.

Now you will see in my post previous to yours, last night saw several areas engage in 'copy cat' riots.

It does seem to be showing a situation which needs some attention in addition to all those who will be finding themselves in court today.

Deport the animals that are not citizens and next riot shoot to kill.

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

 

[Colin]

Deport the animals that are not citizens and next riot shoot to kill.

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

Wrong! We had a Bill of Rights before you did. In fact the drafting of the US version was drawn from the English Bill of Rights. It is part of British constitutional law!

 

[tigerbob]

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

Wrong! We had a Bill of Rights before you did. In fact the drafting of the US version was drawn from the English Bill of Rights. It is part of British constitutional law!

I continue to find it surprising that so many theories are kicked around in the media. We all know what the riots are about. One issue with a potentially legitimate grievance leads to the opportunity for people with too much time on their hands and very little sense of common decency to smash windows, grab some free shit and throw stuff at people.

Not the first time it's happened, (G8, poll tax) and probably not the last. I saw an interview with a 14 year old claiming "we're getting our taxes back". Firstly you don't pay taxes, secondly the damage you cause is often paid for by taxpayers and thirdly stealing from shops has nothing to do with taxes anyway. Just another silly child who doesn't know her arse from her elbow wanting to say something plausible that legitimizes what she's doing, but not believing a word of what she's saying anyway.

My only hope is that the technology that has allowed the shit stirrers to mobilize a bunch of easily led sheep will also allow them to be tracked down. There will be HUGE pressure on the likes of Twitter and Facebook from the authorities, and rightly so. Plus of course the better resolution on mobile phone cameras will hopefully lead to a sticky end for a few.

Oh, and to one point that was made on this thread about a shoot to kill policy, simply not the way it's done in Britain, thank God.

 

[California Girl]

Deport the animals that are not citizens and next riot shoot to kill.

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

Actually, as has been pointed out, England had a Bill of Rights long before we were even colonized. If I remember rightly, their's dates back to the 12th Century. I'm sure Colin or Bob will correct me if I have that wrong but I believe theirs is part of the Magna Carta.

 

[tigerbob]

There has been massive riots in Tottenham, London after the police shot a local dead


BBC News - London police shooting: Dead man was minicab passenger

It appears that early peaceful protest exploded into riots and the burning of shops, police cars and other buildings.

26 police were injured.

BBC News - London unrest: Tottenham's 'anger' over police shooting

Although some people put this down to a small section from outside the community, there is also talk of the lack of trust and respect between police and the community similar to that of the 1980's

A good friend of mine (my ex flatmate) is in Tottenham. He says it's all been very scary.

He also wants to know whether anyone needs a flat screen TV (with minor smoke damage).

 

[tigerbob]

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

Actually, as has been pointed out, England had a Bill of Rights long before we were even colonized. If I remember rightly, their's dates back to the 12th Century. I'm sure Colin or Bob will correct me if I have that wrong but I believe theirs is part of the Magna Carta.

There is a Bill of Rights, but it is only one of several documents that make up what could be called the constitution of Britain. They include, in no particular order, magna carta, the bill of rights, habeas corpus, and the parliament act. There are others too but those are the ones I can name without too much thought.

If a country is just beginning (as America was all those years ago) it makes sense to pull everything into single documents (like your constitution and bill of rights). In Britain's case not so much. All the stuff's there already so messing around with it just to create a single, US-style document would be a bit of a waste of time. So long as it's the law of the land I'm fine with it the way it is.

All of which is essentially a long winded way of saying you're right.

 

[Colin]

what about the "animals", who are citizens?

Laws should be passed allowing extraordinary police power to break up arrest and dismantle the gangs. All GANGS. You see England can do that they have no Bill of Rights.

Actually, as has been pointed out, England had a Bill of Rights long before we were even colonized. If I remember rightly, their's dates back to the 12th Century. I'm sure Colin or Bob will correct me if I have that wrong but I believe theirs is part of the Magna Carta.

The Bill of Rights was enacted in 1689. Magna Carta is the one dating back to the twelfth century.