RightWingers...If Torture Techniques Are Truly Responsible

[Mr. Shaman]

From the CIA:

According to the CIA, regarding the courier who led us to bin Laden:

Detainees gave us his nom de guerre or his nickname and identified him as both a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of September 11th, and a trusted assistant of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, the former number three of al Qaeda who was captured in 2005.

Detainees also identified this man as one of the few al Qaeda couriers trusted by bin Laden. They indicated he might be living with and protecting bin Laden. But for years, we were unable to identify his true name or his location.

Four years ago, we uncovered his identity, and for operational reasons, I can’t go into details about his name or how we identified him, but about two years ago, after months of persistent effort, we identified areas in Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated.

So despite being waterboarded dozens and dozens of times in a secret prison, neither al-Libbi nor KSM revealed the name of Osama's courier...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SKzARMAp8E]YouTube - Countdown with Keith Olbermann- Torturing results in lies 6-16-09 (Part 3 of 4)[/ame]​

.....until, at least 4 years after their waterboarding stopped and they had been transferred back to American custody to be interrogated by the FBI and military interrogators explicitly NOT using harsh interrogation techniques. Then they finally gave up his real name during "normal interrogation" which allowed us in 2009 to find out where he was, this August track him down, and this weekend kill him after he led us to Osama bin Laden.

So during waterboarding? No intel used to get bin Laden.
During regular interrogation? Intel used to get bin Laden.

According to the CIA's own timeline and champion of waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld's own comments.

Can't claim this one as a victory for torture, sorry to burst your bubble.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-wC8TYNOq0]YouTube - Keith & The Torture Timeline - Former Interrogator Matthew Alexander Interview 4/23/09[/ame]
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFO6velBOM]YouTube - Countdown: "Matthew Alexander" on Torture[/ame]

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[Charles_Main]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

First off, according to the Justice Department at the time, and most people today. The Techniques you refer to are not torture.

Second, To answer you question the Reports I have heard suggest the Name of the Currier that we were able to follow to Bin Laden was originally given up Under some form of Enhanced Interrogation.

More importantly however is the fact that when we say Bush gave Obama the tools to get Osama. We are not just referring to Enhanced Interrogations. There is also the fact that Bush made it so we can hold Enemy combatants indefinitely. If Obama had his way they would be given Myranda Rights and Not be able to be held indefinitely with out trial.

I have also heard reports that before KSM was water boarded he gave up nothing, After he was he gave up info much more readily. Which is of course always the case when Interrogating Someone. Once you get them to give up some info, it usually opens of the flood gates and you can get more out of them. In this case the idea is Water Boarding (which I do not believe rises to the level of Torture) and things like sleep deprivation. Broke KSM and the other 2 guys we know we did it to. Once broken they talked even more, and at least in part helped lead to finding Osama.

You can deny it if you want, but the CIA, former Defense Sec, and many others all say it is the truth.

 

[Charles_Main]

From the CIA:

According to the CIA, regarding the courier who led us to bin Laden:

So despite being waterboarded dozens and dozens of times in a secret prison, neither al-Libbi nor KSM revealed the name of Osama's courier... until, at least 4 years after their waterboarding stopped and they had been transferred back to American custody to be interrogated by the FBI and military interrogators explicitly NOT using harsh interrogation techniques. Then they finally gave up his real name during "normal interrogation" which allowed us in 2009 to find out where he was, this August track him down, and this weekend kill him after he led us to Osama bin Laden.

So during waterboarding? No intel used to get bin Laden.
During regular interrogation? Intel used to get bin Laden.

According to the CIA's own timeline and champion of waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld's own comments.

Can't claim this one as a victory for torture, sorry to burst your bubble.

You clearly do not understand how interrogations work. Even if the Intel given up during water boarding was not directly Related. Which I would dispute. The fact is once you break someone, and get them to give up some info, it becomes many times easier to get further info out of them.

That is interrogation 101 ask any Police Detective worth their salt. They will tell you, get someone to talk once, and you will get more out of them.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yup dunking a brutal Terrorist's head in some water is so awful and bombing and murdering Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren isn't a War Crime either. Man,Lefty Wingnuts are sounding more hypocritical and irrational by the day. The UN & NATO Leaders should be arrested for War Crimes for what they did to Gaddafi's Son & Grandchildren. But "Water-Boarding??" Yea i'm just not too outraged over that one.

Waterboarding is childs play compared to what countries like Iran, China, North Korea, Syria and Egypt do to torture their citizens.

Yeah.....that's the baseline we need to use.

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vsUaa_Ppn0]YouTube - Ex-Guantanamo Guard on torture[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kV3VL-oCVY&feature=related]YouTube - Chris Arendt Describes Fellow Gitmo Guards as "Genuinely Psychotic"[/ame]

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UolZz_iq3Ms]YouTube - Former Guantanamo Bay guard, Chris Arendt (Part 1 of 2)[/ame]​

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The reality is,sometimes Torturing them works and sometimes storming their homes and blowing their faces off works. I swear,people can be such silly hypocrites on this stuff. They get so obsessed with that 'D' & 'R' thing. Guess what sheeple,both your beloved Democrats & Republicans torture and brutally murder everyday all around this World. Just ask Gaddafi about his Son and Grandchildren who were brutally murdered last weekend. So stop with all your high & mighty partisan preaching. Both your Democrats and Republicans are War Criminals. Now deal with it Sheeple.

 

[TheBrain]

I'm grateful for any and all video and audio evidence of the Bush administrations dishonest march to a needless war which ended up distracting us from our real goal. Conservatives can't unring that bell. They're just counting on the short memories of people. And if they have to lie in response to questions about what happened and how, that's no moral dilemma for them.

I just love shoving the following in the faces of ignorant liberal fools like you.

Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - 60 Minutes - CBS News

Only one man is responsible for the invasion, Sadaam Hussein himself. He was given many ample opportunities by Bush for over two tears to come clean about his WMD's. He chose to continue the lie. Chose to continually throw the inspectors out. Chose to continually shoot at out our planes. Chose to continually rattle his sword, until it was rightfully and firmly planted up his sorry ass, once and for all.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.


Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

 

[TheBrain]

Yup dunking a brutal Terrorist's head in some water is so awful and bombing and murdering Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren isn't a War Crime either. Man,Lefty Wingnuts are sounding more hypocritical and irrational by the day. The UN & NATO Leaders should be arrested for War Crimes for what they did to Gaddafi's Son & Grandchildren. But "Water-Boarding??" Yea i'm just not too outraged over that one.

Waterboarding is childs play compared to what countries like Iran, China, North Korea, Syria and Egypt do to torture their citizens.

Yeah.....that's the baseline we need to use.

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vsUaa_Ppn0]YouTube - Ex-Guantanamo Guard on torture[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kV3VL-oCVY&feature=related]YouTube - Chris Arendt Describes Fellow Gitmo Guards as "Genuinely Psychotic"[/ame]

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UolZz_iq3Ms]YouTube - Former Guantanamo Bay guard, Chris Arendt (Part 1 of 2)[/ame]​

Sir, why don't you post in a manner which encourages people to read what you write? I don't read ANY of your posts simply because your style hurts my brain. There is NO logical reason for doing so. Don't you WANT your opinion to be read?

 

[Mustang]

I just love shoving the following in the faces of ignorant liberal fools like you.

Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - 60 Minutes - CBS News

Only one man is responsible for the invasion, Sadaam Hussein himself. He was given many ample opportunities by Bush for over two tears to come clean about his WMD's. He chose to continue the lie. Chose to continually throw the inspectors out. Chose to continually shoot at out our planes. Chose to continually rattle his sword, until it was rightfully and firmly planted up his sorry ass, once and for all.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.


Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Fleet docked there, killing over 2,500 sailors and civilians.

Saddam didn't attack America, or an American possession, or an American base.

Huge difference. They're not even comparable.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What Leon Panetta said, so misrepresented in the rightwing press (and notably not in regular mainstream sources) is the following:

"I think some of the detainees, clearly, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees."

The people the intel is supposed to have come from, Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Faraj al-Libbi were waterboarded. That's what Panetta admits. "These detainees, clearly, they used these enhanced interrogator techniques against some of [them]."

That does not equal, the intel came from waterboarding or it was the waterboarding that led to the intel, just that the people who gave us the information also at some point were waterboarded.

As the CIA's own timeline suggests though and as Rumsfeld (himself a staunch and longtime advocate of waterboarding) made abundantly clear, waterboarding did not lead to this intel and in fact it didn't come out until years later during normal interrogation.

So shut the fuck up already with the false, forced meme.

October 9, 2006​

"One interesting nugget involves Pakistan's $ale of hundreds of stray Arabs to the Americans, for shipment to Bagram air force base and on to Guantanamo Bay. Many of my clients in Cuba insist that, far from being captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan, they were grabbed in Pakistan and flogged to the Americans, like slaves at auction. Predictably enough, for five years the Bush administration has remained very quiet on this issue, but Musharraf's book sheds new light.

"Many members of al-Qaeda fled Afghanistan and crossed the border into Pakistan," he writes. "We have played cat and mouse with them . . . We have captured 689 and handed over 369 to the United States. We have earned bounties totalling millions of dollars. Those who habitually accuse us of 'not doing enough' in the war on terror should simply ask the CIA how much prize money it has paid to the government of Pakistan."

Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htAs_yM2r78]YouTube - Bush Deserves No Credit For Osama Bin Laden Death[/ame]​

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The U.S. Government is full of War Criminals. And guess what? They're all Democrats and Republicans. So hop off your high horses. Neither Party can claim a higher ground. They both murder & pillage all around this World. Seriously,what did Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren have to do with anything? You wanna talk about War Crimes? Ok,lets do that. Why haven't UN & NATO Leaders been arrested yet? But hey,lets all freak out about dipping a brutal Terrorist's head under some water. Man,what a joke. Wake up and then grow up Sheeple. SHEESH!

 

[Sallow]

I just love shoving the following in the faces of ignorant liberal fools like you.

Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - 60 Minutes - CBS News

Only one man is responsible for the invasion, Sadaam Hussein himself. He was given many ample opportunities by Bush for over two tears to come clean about his WMD's. He chose to continue the lie. Chose to continually throw the inspectors out. Chose to continually shoot at out our planes. Chose to continually rattle his sword, until it was rightfully and firmly planted up his sorry ass, once and for all.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.

No it is not. Not by a along shot.

Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Saddam Hussien was essentially a dupe of this country..and the Iraqis paid a huge price for something they didn't want...or deserve.

 

[Sallow]

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.


Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Fleet docked there, killing over 2,500 sailors and civilians.

Saddam didn't attack America, or an American possession, or an American base.

Huge difference. They're not even comparable.

Some things really shouldn't need an explanation.

 

[GWV5903]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

Why? You'll only deny it....

 

[TheBrain]

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.


Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Fleet docked there, killing over 2,500 sailors and civilians.

Saddam didn't attack America, or an American possession, or an American base.

Huge difference. They're not even comparable.

No he just killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. Who gives a fuck about those stinky brown Kurds I suppose.

 

[Charles_Main]

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.


Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Fleet docked there, killing over 2,500 sailors and civilians.

Saddam didn't attack America, or an American possession, or an American base.

Huge difference. They're not even comparable.

No he just killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. Who gives a fuck about those stinky brown Kurds I suppose.

In fact he killed 25 Million people in 25 years. Way more than Qadaffi in Libya, Yet according to Obama we needed to act in Libya for Humanitarian Reasons, but there was no good Reason to act in Iraq.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

How many people has the U.S. Government killed today all around this World? I bet it's a whole bunch. What do you think?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it? Stating that Saddam was responsible for the invasion of Iraq is the equivalent of saying that America was responsible for the terrorist attack on 9-11.

what the fuck?? You can't be serious. Saying Sadaam was responsible for the invasion is more like saying Japan deserved to have its ass whipped for Pearl Harbor.

No it is not. Not by a along shot.

Oh, and I totally disagree with going to war , better to just have killed that sumbitch and be done with it, But the motherfucker got what he deserved.

Saddam Hussien was essentially a dupe of this country..and the Iraqis paid a huge price for something they didn't want...or deserve.

Yeah, that's why they were out partying in the streets when they realized that Sadaam, and eventually his even crazier sons, would no longer have a hold on power....Funny how you lib's conveniently forget about those images.

Go talk that shit to the Kurds. Go talk that shit to a still untold number of family members whose relatives occupied, and continue to occupy mass graves, as a result of his murderous leadership. Go tell that to all Iraqi citizens who now know Sadaam's even crazier sons will never hold rein over them.

I just love how you lib's desperately try, and always fail, to determine what the Iraqi people are thinking.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Bad Week For
GOP Lies​

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[Mr. Shaman]

Waterboarding = torture.

No mother fucker
Cutting someones head off while they are alive is torture.

Here....in the civilized-World....it's still considered MURDER.

 

[Liability]

For getting the intelligence that led to the discovery and killing of Osama Bin Laden, then...

a.) What SPECIFIC information was it?

and

2.) WHY wasn't it done 6 or even 4 years ago?

What you people want us to buy is that somehow, some kind of VERY important information was garnered from beating the living snot out of some Muslims that is just NOW baring fruit.

Anyone who would actually believe that should have their head examined.

Can you enlighten the rest of us?

Malcolm Ex-Lax is one truly dopey muthafuckah.

First off, of course, his ploy of attempting to call enhanced interrogation techniques (like waterboarding) "torture" is transparently dishonest of it.

Secondly, the claim is NOT that such techniques are -- alone -- responsible for the ability of our guys to nail the late scumbag Osama bin Roachfucker. The claim has been and remains that such techniques were IN PART responsible for the ability of our guys to get the now late pigsucker.

Malcolm Ex-Lax's OP could not be more dishonest or deliberately misleading if that shit for brain pansy muthafuckah had a brain.