Rightwing Reactionary Perception of (Modern) Liberalism

[DamnYankee]

As stated previously what is far to often called liberals in this country are in point of fact leftist.

I'm still waiting for one of these leftist dingbats to explain to me how the hell taking money and or property from a and giving it to b promotes the general welfare which is what they claim the welfare state does.

I answered above: infrastructure. If citizenship confers on the individual rights, and property is defined as one of those rights, having or allowing the sharing of that right is a function of politics. Neither conservatism nor liberalism has been able to resolve that dilemma, extremes are a third world nation or socialism. Third world status is ugly for most, and socialism is an ideal that can't deal properly with people and their nature, or the existing situation. Thus the European models of democratic socialism, at this point in history, work best as proven by the recent happiness test. And happiness is part of the preamble.

Eminent domain, to which I believe garyd was referring, is not synonymous with creating/maintaining infrastructure. For example, if a road is to be built on a mountain, it would make more sense to blast through the mountain than to steal the property of those living on the mountain to do so. The Constitution provides for "the general welfare", which means, what is best for all concerned -- not what is best for the government and screw the people.

 

[JohnStOnge]

You don't get to exploit illegal aliens and pay them $3 a day. .

Why not? Is there some moral belief behind that statement? If I say I will pay someone $3 for a day's work and they accept, by what moral authority do you assume the right to say we should not be able to engage in that exchange; which was voluntarily entered into by both parties?

Sounds to me like you're trying to impose your moral belief on other people. Is it based on your religion? If not, does the fact that it has its basis in something other than religion make imposing it on others any better? Also, if it's not based on religion, what's it based on? What makes paying someone $3 for a day's work intrinsically bad? In fact, in the absence of something higher than humankind that sets intrinsic moral rules, how can anything be intrinsically "bad?"

 

[DamnYankee]

You don't get to exploit illegal aliens and pay them $3 a day. .

Why not? Is there some moral belief behind that statement? If I say I will pay someone $3 for a day's work and they accept, by what moral authority do you assume the right to say we should not be able to engage in that exchange; which was voluntarily entered into by both parties?

Sounds to me like you're trying to impose your moral belief on other people. Is it based on your religion? If not, does the fact that it has its basis in something other than religion make imposing it on others any better? Also, if it's not based on religion, what's it based on? What makes paying someone $3 for a day's work intrinsically bad? In fact, in the absence of something higher than humankind that sets intrinsic moral rules, how can anything be intrinsically "bad?"

How about because THEY took the job illegally at an illegal wage that a legal tax-paying worker might have had at a legal wage? Or are you against paying taxes?

 

[garyd]

A Libertine is one who engages in Licentious behavior without consideration as to the harm he or she does to himslef or others. Again it defines a behavior or set of behaviors not necessarily a political philosphy.

As to your last some aren't worth being done at more than $3.00 an hour. Several years ago I worked at a place had and old man came around with a wheel barrow and shoveled the chips out of the various turret lathes and engine lathes during the day as needed. Minimum wage went up and he was gone and we had to shovel the chips out ourselves thereafter.

 

[DamnYankee]

A Libertine is one who engages in Licentious behavior without consideration as to the harm he or she does to himslef or others. Again it defines a behavior or set of behaviors not necessarily a political philosphy.

As to your last some aren't worth being done at more than $3.00 an hour. Several years ago I worked at a place had and old man came around with a wheel barrow and shoveled the chips out of the various turret lathes and engine lathes during the day as needed. Minimum wage went up and he was gone and we had to shovel the chips out ourselves thereafter.

Then maybe you should/could find some high school kid looking to make some date or gas money. They sure as hell don't mow lawns anymore....

 

[garyd]

They'd have still had to pay him more than the Job was worth doing.

Eminent domain generally take from all some give up property others money to provide a project that benefits everyone. The Welfare state doesn't arguably benefit anyone other than the bureaucrats that oversee it.

 

[Old Rocks]

For this reply we'll assume Liberals and Democrats are synonymous..

Liberals want to increase the size of government.

Government Job Hiring Set to Soar
By Robert Longley, About.com

Over the next two years, the federal government -- the nation's largest employer -- is projected to hire nearly 193,000 new employees to fill "mission critical" government jobs in almost every occupational field, according to an new report from the non-profit Partnership for Public Service.

"This report confirms that no matter what your area of expertise, or where you live, if you are looking for a job where you can develop your professional skills and make a difference in the lives of others, the federal government has a job for you," states the report, Where the Jobs Are: Mission Critical Opportunities for America (.pdf).

Liberals want to increase government spending.

See sbove

Liberals want to nationalize healthcare and the auto industry.



Liberals are extremists when it comes to the environment. They all have been bamboozled into the global warming and the green movements.



Liberals want to outlaw or oppress Christianity, but they're fine with Islam.


Liberals hate the military.



Liberals think that pedophiles should be protected under law.



Liberals want to control our personal lives, but conservatives want fewer laws regarding personal liberties.


Liberals are PC and want to legislate being PC with Hate Speech laws.



Liberal believe you can legislate social attitudes i.e. Affirmative Action, Same Sex Marriage, etc.



Liberals want to open the borders to immigrants, conservatives want to close them and enforce stricter illegal immigration laws.

Undeniable

Liberals are weak when it comes to enforcing laws.

Only concerning other liberals..they have no problem using the law to persecute Conservatives or Republicans.they're hypocrites....

Sheesh. People like you are weak in the head.

 

[garyd]

So rocks you have no rebuttal to it you just don't like it.

 

[Old Rocks]

For this reply we'll assume Liberals and Democrats are synonymous..

Liberals want to increase the size of government.

Government Job Hiring Set to Soar
By Robert Longley, About.com

Over the next two years, the federal government -- the nation's largest employer -- is projected to hire nearly 193,000 new employees to fill "mission critical" government jobs in almost every occupational field, according to an new report from the non-profit Partnership for Public Service.

"This report confirms that no matter what your area of expertise, or where you live, if you are looking for a job where you can develop your professional skills and make a difference in the lives of others, the federal government has a job for you," states the report, Where the Jobs Are: Mission Critical Opportunities for America (.pdf).

Liberals want to increase government spending.



Liberals want to nationalize healthcare and the auto industry.



Liberals are extremists when it comes to the environment. They all have been bamboozled into the global warming and the green movements.



Liberals want to outlaw or oppress Christianity, but they're fine with Islam.


Liberals hate the military.



Liberals think that pedophiles should be protected under law.



Liberals want to control our personal lives, but conservatives want fewer laws regarding personal liberties.


Liberals are PC and want to legislate being PC with Hate Speech laws.



Liberal believe you can legislate social attitudes i.e. Affirmative Action, Same Sex Marriage, etc.



Liberals want to open the borders to immigrants, conservatives want to close them and enforce stricter illegal immigration laws.


Liberals are weak when it comes to enforcing laws.

Only concerning other liberals..they have no problem using the law to persecute Conservatives or Republicans.they're hypocrites....

Bullshit, Leftwinger fascists want to increase the size of government. Liberals don't need a fucking government. Fascists need a government.

You PNAC people are the obvious Fascists in this nation. Still trying to change the meaning of the word "liberal" now that people are beginning to think that it is a better philosophy than the conservatism that has failed so miserably in the last eight years? Ain't gonna happen. We who have been called "liberal" for so long as a term of denigration, own that word. And you Bush loving Fascists are not capable of understanding the shine that you have put on that word.

 

[garyd]

PNAC people? Are you retarded? Oh wait I forgot who I'm talking to here. Get real Fascism is a disease of socialism not of we on the right. Show me one fascist item form the PNAC web site which is after all little more than assessment of what they think might happen and some of which did.

 

[amrchaos]

From what I've read on USMB I have seen some posts which mischaracterize modern American liberalism. Here are some examples (not quoted):

Liberals want to increase the size of government.

Liberals want to increase government spending.

Liberals want to nationalize healthcare and the auto industry.

Liberals are extremists when it comes to the environment. They all have been bamboozled into the global warming and the green movements.

Liberals want to outlaw or oppress Christianity, but they're fine with Islam.

Liberals hate the military.

Liberals think that pedophiles should be protected under law.

Liberals want to control our personal lives, but conservatives want fewer laws regarding personal liberties.

Liberals are PC and want to legislate being PC with Hate Speech laws.

Liberal believe you can legislate social attitudes i.e. Affirmative Action, Same Sex Marriage, etc.

Liberals want to open the borders to immigrants, conservatives want to close them and enforce stricter illegal immigration laws.

Liberals are weak when it comes to enforcing laws.

And many more.

I would just like to address these mischaracterizations of modern American liberals and I'll try to be brief so you lazy-asses don't have to read so much.

Generally speaking:

#1. Liberals don't want bigger government. We want to do away with the Patriot Act. We want less police, FBI, CIA, and NSA. We don't want the FCC censoring anything. We don't want monitoring or phone tapping. Get the government out of our personal lives if we aren't doing anything wrong.

#2. We don't want to increase government spending, we just want to stop spending so much on the military (some of which is wasteful and unnecessary), unconstitutional and dishonest wars, oil subsidies, farm subsidies (to not grow crops), and take that money and spend it on the NSF, social progams (social programs reduce crime, poverty, and increase your educated population), education (did you use FAFSA? Yeah, it works), alternative energy, healthcare reform, infrastructure, and our wildlands and national parks. Our military budget is more than the entire annual budget of China! How much have we spend on Iraq and Afghanistan?! Why do we continue to subsidize oil companies when they make record profits? Why do we pay farmers not to grow food?

#3. Liberals want businesses that make shitty products to go out of business i.e. Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, etc. We don't want huge banks bailed out. They made business mistatkes and should pay for them. We don't want corporate welfare. We want equal opportunity for John Q. Taxpayer to start a business which under current regulation is extremely difficult beause of unfair competition from huge, multinational corporations like Wal-Mart, Pepsi-Co., etc.
We don't want nationalized healthcare unless it follows Norway's model or is similar, but if we can't we're okay with ensuring that every US citizen has a RIGHT to healthcare. If you're poor or middle class and you get sick or injured, you are taken care of without having your fragile financial life obliterated or your family's financial stability destroyed.

#4. Liberals tend to perceive life as part of nature. We also perceive things like pollution as potentially hazardous to our collective health. The Earth is a beautiful place, and its the only place we have to live, so we want it treated better for very selfish reasons: we want to live in a beautiful place and not die of poisoning or cancer. We don't want our children to have asthma. We don't want people being born without any limbs or blind or worse. There is overwhelming evidence supporting global warming. We may not be able to slow or stop it now, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. If it continues like it has, the quality of life on this planet could be drastically lowered. Even if global warming is false, we still would rather live in a clean, healthy world then support oil company executives.

#5. Liberals strongly support freedom of religion, but with that comes freedom FROM religion. The women's right to choose, same-sex marriage, euthanasia for the terminally ill, stem cell research, etc. are all threatened by religion: namely Christianity, Judeaism, and Islam. We want religious-based legislation to be overturned and yet we want all religions free of government influence. Nobody can tell your church to marry same-sex couples and nobody can sue your church if it won't.

#6. Liberals support a strong military until a time when militarization is no longer a part of the human existence. Which is something we should be working toward. We don't support wars like the two we're in now, or Vietnam, or Korea. But we want a military for instances like WWII. We just don't like spending as much as we do on the military.

#7. Pedophiles are a natural occurrence in a human population. But, to act on the urge harms another human being. Pedophiles go to their own jails and are subjected to, if they wish to ever get out again, focused treatment. But until they are found guilty, they are assumed to be innocent. The Sexual Offender registry should be eliminated because not only does it do nothing, it violates people's right to privacy. If you don't want your children molested, raped, kidnapped and/or murdered (which is extremely highly unlikely to happen to them) then teach your kids not to talk to strangers and take better care of supervising them. And live in the suburbs or in the country. Its better for children than growing up in the city anyway.

#8. Liberals want more laws which protect society as a whole i.e. you don't get to drive your stupid Hummer because it pollutes the air we breathe. You don't get to exploit illegal aliens and pay them $3 a day. You don't get to kill someone simply because they are black, gay, or Muslim and get off easily. You don't get to execute people because you never know, you could be found guilty of a crime you didn't commit. Conservatives want laws that keep same-sex marriages from being recognized; keep women from having the right to choose; keep people from drinking, smoking pot, and eating psychotropic mushrooms; put people in prison for selling pot at a concert; keep prostitution illegal and therefore unregulated and dangerous even though it still happens and laws aren't preventing it; and conservative politicians railed against the Americans With Disabilities Act and funding the VA.

#9. Ever heard of the show "Politically Incorrect" with Bill Maher (who, if you didn't know) is VERY liberal? We don't want PC. I personally hate PC. It seems to me that many conservatives don't want swearing on TV. The people that want PC are both liberals and conservatives and we should really put a stop to their meddling. Hate Speech is more than just being PC. Hate speech is real, it harms people, and it should be a law to help prevent inciting violence against a group of people for something they can't help.

#10. Liberals don't want to legislate social attitudes, but legitimizing same-sex marriage extends to homosexuality and there's nothing wrong with being gay, unless you're religious. We don't want you to celebrate homosexuality with us, but you're welcome to. We understand that there will always be some who never even kind of accept homosexuality. But it shouldn't be considered deviant or abnormal. Racism and sexism still exist, but at least its looked down upon by the majority of US citizens.

#11. We don't want to "open" the border to illegal immigrants, we just want to find a way to have them contribute to society since stopping them is almost if not entirely impossible. Let's get'em to pay taxes! Conservatives seem to think illegal aliens are criminals, lazy, and harmful to society: it makes them they come off as xenophobic, ethnocentric, and misanthropic. It will grow our economy to increase our population in a way that the immigrants contribute instead of sneak under the radar. We should try to minimize immigration, but also accept it to a certain extent. How do we do that? Hell if I know. I'm no expert.

#12. Acts are bad, not people. Prisons do not rehabilitate people. Many people are convicted of crimes for which they aren't guilty or not as guilty as the rigid law makes them out to be. No one should do prison time for just selling pot. We have the second highest population of inmates in the world. The justice system needs to be reformed. One would think conservatives would agree considering just how much it costs to keep a person imprisoned: in Colorado for a prisoner to be kept in minimum security prison for one year is $29k! Maximum security: $66,000 a year (but that's worth the money since those guys probably did something violent).

Liberals don't want a nanny state, but we live in a modern, techologically advanced society fso why not enjoy the benefits of living collectively. We don't just want to spend tax dollars for no reason. We don't want to raise taxes but a flat tax isn't going to work without simplifying the system, and even then it wouldn't be a fair tax system. We don't want needless wars, but we still support our troops. We want religious diversity and not a de facto theocracy. We want racial diversity. We want a more open society. We want the government out of our personal lives unless what we're doing is harming someone else. We want justice. We want liberty. We want the American dream.

I hope that clears things up a bit for you partisans out there.

Politicians have the ability to shape and mold perception into fringe concepts and demonizations of the oppositions to encourage the common citizen to vote for them. Here we have a person that clearly identifies himself as a liberal and desperately tries to escape the demonization of his political identity "Liberalism". But if we go to the basis of the arguements, we must seriously ask ourselves. "who are these liberals that want the opposite"

Most people wants to change the size of government.

Most people wants to change government spending.

Most people wants healthcare they can afford and the cars that can be serviced.

Most people wants their environment to be as clean and natural as possible..

Most people wants to promote their religious identity.

Most people will defend themselves.

Most people wants to keep their kids safe from harm.

Most people wishes to live free, happy lives.

Few people are able from making "anti-social" statements and taking "anti-social" actions.

Few people likes to be talked down too.


Some fear anything or anyone that could damage their culture identity, like new people.


Many of us appreciate a safe and orderly society.



The thing is, we could draw up a list of demonizations of conservatives and ask a conservative "What is the basis the propaganda is working off of". The strange thing is, that list would look like the above.

Has it occured to anyone yet that politicians do not want the people sitting down and talking reasonably amongst each other. If the citizens did that, the local representative could be looking at 6 to 10 in the National Super Max due to the corruption they are most likely apart of.


For a corrupt and morally dishonest politician, it is a good idea to keep the ignorant masses fighting amongst themselves. The more they focus on each other, the less they focus on solving the problem resonibly.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

For this reply we'll assume Liberals and Democrats are synonymous..

Liberals want to increase the size of government.

Government Job Hiring Set to Soar
By Robert Longley, About.com

Over the next two years, the federal government -- the nation's largest employer -- is projected to hire nearly 193,000 new employees to fill "mission critical" government jobs in almost every occupational field, according to an new report from the non-profit Partnership for Public Service.

"This report confirms that no matter what your area of expertise, or where you live, if you are looking for a job where you can develop your professional skills and make a difference in the lives of others, the federal government has a job for you," states the report, Where the Jobs Are: Mission Critical Opportunities for America (.pdf).

Liberals want to increase government spending.

Liberals want to nationalize healthcare and the auto industry.

Liberals are extremists when it comes to the environment. They all have been bamboozled into the global warming and the green movements.

Liberals want to outlaw or oppress Christianity, but they're fine with Islam.

Liberals hate the military.

Liberals think that pedophiles should be protected under law.

Liberals want to control our personal lives, but conservatives want fewer laws regarding personal liberties.

Liberals are PC and want to legislate being PC with Hate Speech laws.

Liberal believe you can legislate social attitudes i.e. Affirmative Action, Same Sex Marriage, etc.

Liberals want to open the borders to immigrants, conservatives want to close them and enforce stricter illegal immigration laws.

Liberals are weak when it comes to enforcing laws.

Only concerning other liberals..they have no problem using the law to persecute Conservatives or Republicans.they're hypocrites....

Bullshit, Leftwinger fascists want to increase the size of government. Liberals don't need a fucking government. Fascists need a government.

Shit, c'mon you gutless leftwingers ... defend youselves. You claim to be liberal, bring your shit. I'm sick of you MFer's trying to make yourselves look like something other than the fascists you are.

Why would we want to defend ourselves against the continued political mischaracterizations in Alpha1's response? Its almost as if he personally has something against what he perceives as liberals more than he does against the liberal political perspective. Something tells me that no matter how I tried to show him that what he believes or how he perceives what modern liberalism is, he will simply react negatively emotionally. What he perceives as liberalism isn't liberalism, its what Democrats are doing. Once again he has confused Democrats with liberals and they aren't they same or even similar unless perceived from the right.

Modern liberalism is the opposite of fascism. Think about Spain after the fascists took over in the 1930s. It was a Catholic theocracy where intellectuals and nonbelievers were shot. How is that in anyway even similar to what I wrote in the OP? The right calls college professors elitists and liberals. They call the educated left elitists. The right resents being told that they cling to religion and gun even though they cling to religion and guns.

Liberals aren't going to make you get an abortion, Gunny. That's just it. There might some liberals who get offended that you think abortion is murder, but I'm not one of them until you try to make abortion illegal.

Liberals aren't going to make you stop believing in God or Jesus. A lot of liberals are angry because they perceive that many of the laws by which they are forced to live are Christian-faith-based. Christians are offended by liberals attacks on their beliefs. I thought that many Christians would welcome the opportunity to face challenges to their faith, but I guess not. But we're called pantywaists for being offended by hate speech? Many liberals aren't Christian and we see the flaws in social programs based on Christian-faith or on baseless assumptions. We want laws and regulations based on research and facts and things which are aligned well with reality so that those of us who don't believe don't have our liberties limited by religion. We want the taxes we pay to be spent effectively on social programs that will reduce the number of abortions, to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, single mothers, domestic violence, drug addiction, crime, poverty, war, pollution, and injustice. It takes money and research on how best to spend the money to minimize the spread and proliferation of these social ills which effect each and every one of us to some degree or another.

 

[garyd]

Most people wants to change the size of government.

Most people wants to change government spending.

Most people wants healthcare they can afford and the cars that can be serviced.

Most people wants their environment to be as clean and natural as possible..

Most people wants to promote their religious identity.

YOu do realize there is a caveat with most of that which reads as long as it doesn't interfere with me or my lifestyle or cause an increase in my taxes which would effect same.

 

[elvis]

For this reply we'll assume Liberals and Democrats are synonymous..

Liberals want to increase the size of government.


Liberals want to increase government spending.



Liberals want to nationalize healthcare and the auto industry.



Liberals are extremists when it comes to the environment. They all have been bamboozled into the global warming and the green movements.



Liberals want to outlaw or oppress Christianity, but they're fine with Islam.


Liberals hate the military.



Liberals think that pedophiles should be protected under law.



Liberals want to control our personal lives, but conservatives want fewer laws regarding personal liberties.


Liberals are PC and want to legislate being PC with Hate Speech laws.



Liberal believe you can legislate social attitudes i.e. Affirmative Action, Same Sex Marriage, etc.



Liberals want to open the borders to immigrants, conservatives want to close them and enforce stricter illegal immigration laws.


Liberals are weak when it comes to enforcing laws.

Bullshit, Leftwinger fascists want to increase the size of government. Liberals don't need a fucking government. Fascists need a government.

You PNAC people are the obvious Fascists in this nation. Still trying to change the meaning of the word "liberal" now that people are beginning to think that it is a better philosophy than the conservatism that has failed so miserably in the last eight years? Ain't gonna happen. We who have been called "liberal" for so long as a term of denigration, own that word. And you Bush loving Fascists are not capable of understanding the shine that you have put on that word.

You're not a liberal. You're a socialist.

 

[garyd]

In order for conservative to have failed in the last 8 years it would have had to have been tried. Bush didn't govern as a conservative in any meaningful way.

 

[editec]

In order for conservative to have failed in the last 8 years it would have had to have been tried. Bush didn't govern as a conservative in any meaningful way.

That is very likely true.

Now, who put him in office?

People who identified themsevles as Conservatives.

So perhaps you can understand why many people now think of conservitism as typified by what Bush II did while in office, yes?

As so too will "liberal" be defined as that which Obama does, even though many self proclaiming liberals will complain about his policies, too.

The decoupling of party behaviors from the philosopical platforms of both conservative and liberal thinking sure as hell makes it impossible for any of us to actually understand what these words stand for, doesn't it?

That is why these words no longer stand for anything, really.

They describe poltical teams, not poltical philosophies.

 

[garyd]

Why because our other choice was worse and in most states two choices is all you've got.

 

[Oddball]

Generally speaking:

#1. Liberals don't want bigger government. We want to do away with the Patriot Act. We want less police, FBI, CIA, and NSA. We don't want the FCC censoring anything. We don't want monitoring or phone tapping. Get the government out of our personal lives if we aren't doing anything wrong.

Oh, really??

When has any "liberal" proposed outright abolition of any of the aforementioned agencies??

Oh yeah...Never.

#2. We don't want to increase government spending, we just want to stop spending so much on the military (some of which is wasteful and unnecessary), unconstitutional and dishonest wars, oil subsidies, farm subsidies (to not grow crops), and take that money and spend it on the NSF, social progams (social programs reduce crime, poverty, and increase your educated population), education (did you use FAFSA? Yeah, it works), alternative energy, healthcare reform, infrastructure, and our wildlands and national parks. Our military budget is more than the entire annual budget of China! How much have we spend on Iraq and Afghanistan?! Why do we continue to subsidize oil companies when they make record profits? Why do we pay farmers not to grow food?

Oh, really??

When has any "liberal" proposed outright abolition of any of the aforementioned policies and agencies??

Oh yeah...Never.

#3. Liberals want businesses that make shitty products to go out of business i.e. Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, etc. We don't want huge banks bailed out. They made business mistatkes and should pay for them. We don't want corporate welfare. We want equal opportunity for John Q. Taxpayer to start a business which under current regulation is extremely difficult beause of unfair competition from huge, multinational corporations like Wal-Mart, Pepsi-Co., etc.;

Unfortunately for you, your reputed "liberal" politicians are all for the things you claim to be against...You sure you're not a republican??

We don't want nationalized healthcare unless it follows Norway's model or is similar, but if we can't we're okay with ensuring that every US citizen has a RIGHT to healthcare. If you're poor or middle class and you get sick or injured, you are taken care of without having your fragile financial life obliterated or your family's financial stability destroyed.

IOW, you DO want socialized medical services....Please quit being so wordy about it.

#4. Liberals tend to perceive life as part of nature. We also perceive things like pollution as potentially hazardous to our collective health. The Earth is a beautiful place, and its the only place we have to live, so we want it treated better for very selfish reasons: we want to live in a beautiful place and not die of poisoning or cancer. We don't want our children to have asthma. We don't want people being born without any limbs or blind or worse. There is overwhelming evidence supporting global warming. We may not be able to slow or stop it now, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. If it continues like it has, the quality of life on this planet could be drastically lowered. Even if global warming is false, we still would rather live in a clean, healthy world then support oil company executives.

When you get enviro-hogs like Algore and Barry Obolshevick to sign on with that ideal, feel free to check back in on that one.

#5. Liberals strongly support freedom of religion, but with that comes freedom FROM religion. The women's right to choose, same-sex marriage, euthanasia for the terminally ill, stem cell research, etc. are all threatened by religion: namely Christianity, Judeaism, and Islam. We want religious-based legislation to be overturned and yet we want all religions free of government influence. Nobody can tell your church to marry same-sex couples and nobody can sue your church if it won't.

If freedom from those constraints is so important to you, why is it that you seek approval from the state for your domestic partnership situations...huh??

#6. Liberals support a strong military until a time when militarization is no longer a part of the human existence. Which is something we should be working toward. We don't support wars like the two we're in now, or Vietnam, or Korea. But we want a military for instances like WWII. We just don't like spending as much as we do on the military.

Germany, Japan, Korea, Haiti, Kosovo, ad nauseum.

Bullshit.

#7. Pedophiles are a natural occurrence in a human population. But, to act on the urge harms another human being. Pedophiles go to their own jails and are subjected to, if they wish to ever get out again, focused treatment. But until they are found guilty, they are assumed to be innocent. The Sexual Offender registry should be eliminated because not only does it do nothing, it violates people's right to privacy. If you don't want your children molested, raped, kidnapped and/or murdered (which is extremely highly unlikely to happen to them) then teach your kids not to talk to strangers and take better care of supervising them. And live in the suburbs or in the country. Its better for children than growing up in the city anyway.

Why don't I believe you here??

#8. Liberals want more laws which protect society as a whole i.e. you don't get to drive your stupid Hummer because it pollutes the air we breathe. You don't get to exploit illegal aliens and pay them $3 a day. You don't get to kill someone simply because they are black, gay, or Muslim and get off easily. You don't get to execute people because you never know, you could be found guilty of a crime you didn't commit. Conservatives want laws that keep same-sex marriages from being recognized; keep women from having the right to choose; keep people from drinking, smoking pot, and eating psychotropic mushrooms; put people in prison for selling pot at a concert; keep prostitution illegal and therefore unregulated and dangerous even though it still happens and laws aren't preventing it; and conservative politicians railed against the Americans With Disabilities Act and funding the VA.

Cavalcade of brain dead] stereotypes.

BTW..George H.W. Bush (and eeeeeeeevilll REPUBLICAN} signed the ADA into law.

#9. Ever heard of the show "Politically Incorrect" with Bill Maher (who, if you didn't know) is VERY liberal? We don't want PC. I personally hate PC. It seems to me that many conservatives don't want swearing on TV. The people that want PC are both liberals and conservatives and we should really put a stop to their meddling. Hate Speech is more than just being PC. Hate speech is real, it harms people, and it should be a law to help prevent inciting violence against a group of people for something they can't help.

Then you're one of a vast minority.

Best get out while you still have a brain.

#10. Liberals don't want to legislate social attitudes, but legitimizing same-sex marriage extends to homosexuality and there's nothing wrong with being gay, unless you're religious. We don't want you to celebrate homosexuality with us, but you're welcome to. We understand that there will always be some who never even kind of accept homosexuality. But it shouldn't be considered deviant or abnormal. Racism and sexism still exist, but at least its looked down upon by the majority of US citizens.

Like hell.

If that wetre true, then marriage licenses wouldn't be such a big deal to them.

I'm now exhausted....But that's the point with you authoritarian "liberals"....ain't it??

 

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by Coloradomtnman
#2. We don't want to increase government spending, we just want to stop spending so much on the military (some of which is wasteful and unnecessary), unconstitutional and dishonest wars, oil subsidies, farm subsidies (to not grow crops), and take that money and spend it on the NSF, social progams (social programs reduce crime, poverty, and increase your educated population), education (did you use FAFSA? Yeah, it works), alternative energy, healthcare reform, infrastructure, and our wildlands and national parks. Our military budget is more than the entire annual budget of China! How much have we spend on Iraq and Afghanistan?! Why do we continue to subsidize oil companies when they make record profits? Why do we pay farmers not to grow food?

Ummm.... Don't look now, but a new spending bill "to provide funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, security improvements in Pakistan and the national pandemic flu response" just passed in the House, 368-60, with 5 not voting (couldn't forget to add flu response to a military bill....), and they're proposing a food protection bill to prevent ANY unregulated food from being grown -- even in your own backyard. Why don't you ask THEM these questions?

 

[editec]

A Libertine is one who engages in Licentious behavior without consideration as to the harm he or she does to himslef or others. Again it defines a behavior or set of behaviors not necessarily a political philosphy.

As to your last some aren't worth being done at more than $3.00 an hour. Several years ago I worked at a place had and old man came around with a wheel barrow and shoveled the chips out of the various turret lathes and engine lathes during the day as needed. Minimum wage went up and he was gone and we had to shovel the chips out ourselves thereafter.

So in other words, your employers decided that you guys, who I can only presume ARE making more than that higher minimum wage, weren't working hard enough and therefore ADDED TO YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION?

In other words, your employers either cannot do the math (assuming you are an hourly worker) understood that they were NOT getting the meximum effort out of you workers who are NOW taking up the old man's slack, or YOU are on salary and therefore your employers are EXPLOITING you by adding to your workload without adding to their cost of labor.

Your story is precisly why UNIONS are a good thing in a modern industrialized society.