Rick Perry heckled in NH

[Conservative]

I don't think a single person in here who has said it's a ponzi scheme has ever researched what exactly a ponzie scheme is.

And you appear to not have researched enough to understand the difference between a 'pyramid' scheme and a 'ponzi' scheme.

GOOGLE is your friend.

 

[elvis]

That's interesting, because according to the very link you posted, that unfunded "liability" we have is the total over the next 75 years. We in no way need all that money today, or tomorrow or next year or probably even in my lifetime.

Which means, stop being so alarmist. We have plenty of time to fix this.

We have to fix it because it is broken...which is just what Perry pointed out...and the focus of this thread.

And it's what Obama did with Obamacare, and you guys attacked him as a dictator. Do you give Perry a pass because he's white?

 

[Missourian]

And it's what Obama did with Obamacare, and you guys attacked him as a dictator. Do you give Perry a pass because he's white?

You should have quit while you were behind.

Both total deflection from the topic AND race card.

Fail squared.

Obamacare increased the sustainability of Medicare and Medicaid by applying downward pressures on the rising cost of health care. This is proven fact. It's also common sense. If we get a control on the runaway health care costs in this country, then everyone pays less, including the government. Spending would naturally go down and our "liabilities" would as well.

But of course, you don't care about this. None of the good conservatives care about this. Why? Because Obama came up with the plan, that's why. Romney's plan was similar and you all loved that and love him. Perry, as far as I know, has put forth ZERO plans, yet you all cheer him and love him.

So, hmm, what's the difference between Obama, Perry and Romney? Hmm.

Deflection fail.

If you want to talk about Obamacare there are plenty of other threads for that.

THIS thread is about what Perry said about Social Security.

Savvy?

 

[G.T.]

I think you are a little slow!

Ponzi scheme - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

You don't get it, do you?

A ponzi scheme is where you put a dollar in, and then instead of simply getting your dollar back with (hopefully) interest (Social Security), you get a profit percentage of every dollar everyone behind you puts in straight-up.

Getting interest on your money is not a Ponzi-scheme.

Think about a bank.

When you put money into your account, they don't hold literal cash in an account. They pass everyone's cash around all day, and if you withdraw $100 from your account it's not a $100 that you put in physically, it's a $100 bill that a lady deposited 5 minutes ago. That's like social security. It goes the same way as a bank,. and when you're old you begin your withdrawals.

What you dont get is the parallels. Since the SS money is spent immediately your argument doesnt hold up.

The ss money is spent immediately because the Government is in Debt. That doesn't change it to a ponzi scheme. Read closer what a ponzi scheme actually is, it's not all that difficult. Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[G.T.]

I don't think a single person in here who has said it's a ponzi scheme has ever researched what exactly a ponzie scheme is.

And you appear to not have researched enough to understand the difference between a 'pyramid' scheme and a 'ponzi' scheme.

GOOGLE is your friend.

false

 

[Jarhead]

I don't think a single person in here who has said it's a ponzi scheme has ever researched what exactly a ponzie scheme is.

I think you are a little slow!

Ponzi scheme - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

You don't get it, do you?

A ponzi scheme is where you put a dollar in, and then instead of simply getting your dollar back with (hopefully) interest (Social Security), you get a profit percentage of every dollar everyone behind you puts in straight-up.

Getting interest on your money is not a Ponzi-scheme.

Think about a bank.

When you put money into your account, they don't hold literal cash in an account. They pass everyone's cash around all day, and if you withdraw $100 from your account it's not a $100 that you put in physically, it's a $100 bill that a lady deposited 5 minutes ago. That's like social security. It goes the same way as a bank,. and when you're old you begin your withdrawals.

What makes a ponzi scheme a ponzi scheme is that regardless of how much money that money may be making, a "false" return is offered to make it more attractive to future investors.

So even if investor A puts in money and that money earns no interest, he recieves his money PLUS an additional amount, thinking it is earning a great return...giving the impression the money is making money and attracting other investors.

A pyramid is not one of deception...you are earning money for doing what you are expected to do......invite others to work beneath you.

 

[Conservative]

The ss money is spent immediately because the Government is in Debt. That doesn't change it to a ponzi scheme. Read closer what a ponzi scheme actually is, it's not all that difficult. Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's try a source other than one I can go in an edit, should I feel so inclined.

"Ponzi" Schemes

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.

This is what SS does. It pays retirees (existing investors) from funds contributed by current workers (new investors).



http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm

In the classic "pyramid" scheme, participants attempt to make money solely by recruiting new participants into the program. The hallmark of these schemes is the promise of sky-high returns in a short period of time for doing nothing other than handing over your money and getting others to do the same.

Not what SS does.

 

[Full-Auto]

You don't get it, do you?

A ponzi scheme is where you put a dollar in, and then instead of simply getting your dollar back with (hopefully) interest (Social Security), you get a profit percentage of every dollar everyone behind you puts in straight-up.

Getting interest on your money is not a Ponzi-scheme.

Think about a bank.

When you put money into your account, they don't hold literal cash in an account. They pass everyone's cash around all day, and if you withdraw $100 from your account it's not a $100 that you put in physically, it's a $100 bill that a lady deposited 5 minutes ago. That's like social security. It goes the same way as a bank,. and when you're old you begin your withdrawals.

What you dont get is the parallels. Since the SS money is spent immediately your argument doesnt hold up.

The ss money is spent immediately because the Government is in Debt. That doesn't change it to a ponzi scheme. Read closer what a ponzi scheme actually is, it's not all that difficult. Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ss money is spent immediately because the Government is in Debt.


LOL Run along.

 

[Jarhead]

You don't get it, do you?

A ponzi scheme is where you put a dollar in, and then instead of simply getting your dollar back with (hopefully) interest (Social Security), you get a profit percentage of every dollar everyone behind you puts in straight-up.

Getting interest on your money is not a Ponzi-scheme.

Think about a bank.

When you put money into your account, they don't hold literal cash in an account. They pass everyone's cash around all day, and if you withdraw $100 from your account it's not a $100 that you put in physically, it's a $100 bill that a lady deposited 5 minutes ago. That's like social security. It goes the same way as a bank,. and when you're old you begin your withdrawals.

What you dont get is the parallels. Since the SS money is spent immediately your argument doesnt hold up.

The ss money is spent immediately because the Government is in Debt. That doesn't change it to a ponzi scheme. Read closer what a ponzi scheme actually is, it's not all that difficult. Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By definition, no it is not a ponzi scheme.

But it is run like a ponzi scheme.

 

[G.T.]

Ponzi vs. Social Security

Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes.

The first modern social insurance program began in Germany in 1889 and has been in continuous operation for more than 100 years. The American Social Security system has been in continuous successful operation since 1935. Charles Ponzi's scheme lasted barely 200 days.


Social Security Online - HISTORY, Ponzi Schemes vs. Social Security

 

[dblack]

I still think you're all missing the point: Why didn't he just answer the question?

 

[Jarhead]

Ponzi vs. Social Security

Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes.

The first modern social insurance program began in Germany in 1889 and has been in continuous operation for more than 100 years. The American Social Security system has been in continuous successful operation since 1935. Charles Ponzi's scheme lasted barely 200 days.


Social Security Online - HISTORY, Ponzi Schemes vs. Social Security

from what I understand, the system wont last nearly as long as Ponzi's scheme lasted without some kind of reform.

 

[DontBeStupid]

THIS thread is about what Perry said about Social Security.

Fair enough. Then lets see what your Texan Messiah said:

“I can promise you, my 27-year-old son, Social Security, under the program that we have today, will not be there.”

“I’m not afraid of having that conversation,” the governor said. “Do I have a plan yet to lay out and say here it is in black and white? I don’t. But I can promise you … these challenges are not overcomable, at all. We are Americans and we will find the way to do it.”

So, he has no plan, but thinks the challenge is overcomable, but apparently not to the point where SS will be around for his kids. Wow. Can anyone explain that to me? Does that mean he's going to pray and ask God to fix it?

All this, about a program that has a $9T gap over 75 years, and that counts inflation. That's maybe $40B or $50B in the early years. Easily fixed with means testing and/or raising the cap on taxable income.

This is not rocket science.

 

[G.T.]

Ponzi vs. Social Security

Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes.

The first modern social insurance program began in Germany in 1889 and has been in continuous operation for more than 100 years. The American Social Security system has been in continuous successful operation since 1935. Charles Ponzi's scheme lasted barely 200 days.


Social Security Online - HISTORY, Ponzi Schemes vs. Social Security

from what I understand, the system wont last nearly as long as Ponzi's scheme lasted without some kind of reform.

The fact is, it's not a Ponzi scheme and if you really think it is, Patriot, go ahead and Lawyer up.

 

[keee keee]

Protesters greet GOP candidate Perry in NH - Yahoo! News

In the past Perry has referred to Social Security as a "Ponzi scheme" and questioned its constitutional standing. He did not take direct questions from reporters Thursday about those previous statements.

Ricky, you got some splainin to do...

what is wrong with telling the truth SS is a ponzi scheme It was origionally set up to start paying you benifits at an age that most people died before reaching. Now it is going broke because of advances in medicine now people are living to long.

 

[Missourian]

You don't get it, do you?

A ponzi scheme is where you put a dollar in, and then instead of simply getting your dollar back with (hopefully) interest (Social Security), you get a profit percentage of every dollar everyone behind you puts in straight-up.

Getting interest on your money is not a Ponzi-scheme.

Think about a bank.

When you put money into your account, they don't hold literal cash in an account. They pass everyone's cash around all day, and if you withdraw $100 from your account it's not a $100 that you put in physically, it's a $100 bill that a lady deposited 5 minutes ago. That's like social security. It goes the same way as a bank,. and when you're old you begin your withdrawals.

What you are describing is a pyramid scheme...not a ponzi scheme.

It's the same thing, and I described it perfectly.

Here's the minute differences:
A pyramid scheme is a form of fraud similar in some ways to a Ponzi scheme, relying as it does on a mistaken belief in a nonexistent financial reality, including the hope of an extremely high rate of return. However, several characteristics distinguish these schemes from Ponzi schemes:
In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a "hub" for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. (In fact, failure to recruit typically means no investment return.)
A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach (insider connections, etc.) and often attracts well-to-do investors; whereas pyramid schemes explicitly claim that new money will be the source of payout for the initial investments.
A pyramid scheme is bound to collapse much faster because it requires exponential increases in participants to sustain it. By contrast, Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to "reinvest" their money, with a relatively small number of new participants.

I'm going to attempt to explain a ponzi scheme...no guarantee this will make sense.


I am the schemer.

I promise a guaranteed 15% return on investments.

You give me your money.

So does Elvis, Full-Auto, and DBS.

I invest most of the money, of course, I take some for myself (as does the government when they "borrow" from the S.S. "lockbox")

I am not getting a 15% return.

Elvis wants his money.

I pay Elvis his money plus the 15% I promised.

I do this by taking it from Full-Auto and DBS's investment.

Elvis, who got his money back plus 15% tells California Girl, Del, Conservative, Dabs, Newby and Annie about this great investment, guaranteed 15%..."no, not second hand, I got the return myself".

All of them invest with me.

Full Auto and DBS now want their money.

I pay them their initial investment plus 15% from the money CG, Del, Conservative, Dabs, Newby and Annie just gave me.

Full Auto and DBS tell all their friends...I get 25 more investors...


...whose money I use to pay my previous investors....

It is a scam that is dependent on growth of the base of investors.

Without growth, I don't have the money to pay the earlier investors.

That is the problem with Social Security...a baby boom in conjunction with a later reduced birth rate.

Dam*...I hope that makes sense.

 

[keee keee]

I will never recieve a dime of the money I have had stolen from me. The system will be broke by the time I am old enough to recieve benifits or the government fix will be to raise the age to an age that I will be dead. Just like origionally set up. The young have already figured this out. Only the brain dead don't

 

[Luissa]

Gov Perry is the 2011 version of the 2008 Sen. Fred Thompson, and a newer version of the early 2011 Donald Trump. Same "ain't it awful" rhetoric and the very same demagoguery.

Will the GOP ever find a candidate who is not a charlatan?

I like some things about Perry, wouldn't vote for him, but at least he has stood up to social conservatives on a few issues..

My biggest problem is the fact he didn't pardon a man who was probably innocent, and the man was put to death.

 

[G.T.]

Lawyer up, bauss.

Y'all are big talkers with big opinions, Lawyer up.

 

[Cuyo]

SS 'is' a Ponzi scheme. Your point???

To piss moan and snibble.

How is it a Ponzi scheme?

money person B puts in is used to pay person A money back that person A put in.

Theoretically, for it not to be a ponzi scheme, every penny put into it shopuld be available to be paid back.

As we know, if all demanded their money at once, many would not get it.

The whole economy is a ponzi scheme by that definition. Just check the trading price vs book value for any given stock, but particularly hot stocks.