Rham Emanuel tackles the teachers unions/ where are the demands for a recall electio?

[JoeB131]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I think the major difference is that Rahm is actually addressing budget shortfalls.

Walker's goal was to break the political power of the unions. He called for things that had nothing to do with actually balancing the budget. The Wisconsin teachers unions were willing to make concessions on pensions and co-pays. Walker wanted to get rid of collective bargaining and other things as well.

At no point is Rahm tying to eliminate their right to collectively bargain. The only point at issue is what the new contract would be.

And to a degree, give the Teacher's Union and Rahm some credit. They are resolving this issue now, in the summer, when the kids are out of school.

Where I blame the CTU is that they called for an arbitor, but then asked their members for a strike vote before the Arbitor came back with anything.

 

[Seawytch]

I see we are taking a spin on the "Wheel of False Equivalences" again...

 

[Conservative]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I think the major difference is that Rahm is actually addressing budget shortfalls.

Walker's goal was to break the political power of the unions. He called for things that had nothing to do with actually balancing the budget. The Wisconsin teachers unions were willing to make concessions on pensions and co-pays. Walker wanted to get rid of collective bargaining and other things as well.

At no point is Rahm tying to eliminate their right to collectively bargain. The only point at issue is what the new contract would be.

And to a degree, give the Teacher's Union and Rahm some credit. They are resolving this issue now, in the summer, when the kids are out of school.

Where I blame the CTU is that they called for an arbitor, but then asked their members for a strike vote before the Arbitor came back with anything.

and doing away with the CB in Wisconsin did exactly that. Local districts were able to address their budget shortfalls, balancing their budgets, without major layoffs.

 

[JoeB131]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I think the major difference is that Rahm is actually addressing budget shortfalls.

Walker's goal was to break the political power of the unions. He called for things that had nothing to do with actually balancing the budget. The Wisconsin teachers unions were willing to make concessions on pensions and co-pays. Walker wanted to get rid of collective bargaining and other things as well.

At no point is Rahm tying to eliminate their right to collectively bargain. The only point at issue is what the new contract would be.

And to a degree, give the Teacher's Union and Rahm some credit. They are resolving this issue now, in the summer, when the kids are out of school.

Where I blame the CTU is that they called for an arbitor, but then asked their members for a strike vote before the Arbitor came back with anything.

and doing away with the CB in Wisconsin did exactly that. Local districts were able to address their budget shortfalls, balancing their budgets, without major layoffs.

But they could have done that without eliminating Collective Bargaining... that was the point. The unions were willing to make concessions. And most of the budgets were balanced at the local level without any help from Walker.

Again, none of this issue about Public Sector unions would be an issue if the wages and benefits of private sector workers hadn't been gutted over the last 30 years.

BUt instead of being angry at the arsonist who burns down your house, you want him to burn down your neighbor's house, too. Just so everyone is equally miserable.

 

[rightwinger]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I see no where in there where Emanuel tries to block a unions right to exist

See the difference?

 

[Stephanie]

Where is Rahm taking away their collective bargaining rights? This is your lame excuse for a comparison? A contract dispute? Keep spinning boys....batshit crazy suits you.

where did Walker do that?

 

[Stephanie]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I see no where in there where Emanuel tries to block a unions right to exist

See the difference?

lol, figures this would be the spin put it..

 

[Big Fitz]

I think the major difference is that Rahm is actually addressing budget shortfalls.

Walker's goal was to break the political power of the unions. He called for things that had nothing to do with actually balancing the budget. The Wisconsin teachers unions were willing to make concessions on pensions and co-pays. Walker wanted to get rid of collective bargaining and other things as well.

At no point is Rahm tying to eliminate their right to collectively bargain. The only point at issue is what the new contract would be.

And to a degree, give the Teacher's Union and Rahm some credit. They are resolving this issue now, in the summer, when the kids are out of school.

Where I blame the CTU is that they called for an arbitor, but then asked their members for a strike vote before the Arbitor came back with anything.

and doing away with the CB in Wisconsin did exactly that. Local districts were able to address their budget shortfalls, balancing their budgets, without major layoffs.

But they could have done that without eliminating Collective Bargaining... that was the point. The unions were willing to make concessions. And most of the budgets were balanced at the local level without any help from Walker.

Again, none of this issue about Public Sector unions would be an issue if the wages and benefits of private sector workers hadn't been gutted over the last 30 years.

BUt instead of being angry at the arsonist who burns down your house, you want him to burn down your neighbor's house, too. Just so everyone is equally miserable.

Not without firing dozens to hundreds or massive tax increases.

You can't get private sector deals as nice as the teachers had, why should they have them?

 

[naturegirl]

Well, there is this ya know.

Schools CEO Jean-Claude Brizard Monday called the largest strike authorization mandate in Chicago Teachers Union history a reflection of local “frustration” and national “anger’’ from teachers tired of being “vilified.’’


“What I see in the numbers is a level of anger and frustration of being asked to do so much without the proper dollars to support it,’’ Brizard told the Chicago Sun-Times.

“What you are hearing from this is much more than [ a comment on ] a negotiation with [Chicago Public Schools]. This is national angst and anger from teachers who are being vilified and asked to do everything, and they cannot.

“What I say to the CTU is, ‘I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are talking about. But we don’t have the funding. ... I have a budget I have to live with.’’

Nearly 90 percent of Chicago teachers authorize strike - Chicago Sun-Times

 

[naturegirl]

Ohhh and this from MSNBC:

Chicago teachers vote for strike in battle over pay, longer school days

Chicago teachers vote for strike in battle over pay, longer school days - U.S. News

 

[g5000]

I guess I didn't use enough inflammatory rhetoric when I brought up what Emanuel is doing last week.

The effect of Emanuel's behavior is no different than the effect of Walker's. I strongly urge you to read the long quotes I posted in my topic, and the full transcript of his conversation with Fareed Zakaria before donning your partisan jackets, whatever color they may be.

This is a watershed moment in American politics.

 

[naturegirl]

Thanks g5000, the left kind of ignores that which is right under their noses until they get their talking points from DU or the Daily Kos. They'll be around soon.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

Where's the legislation taking away the unions' rights to bargain, as Walker did?

 

[naturegirl]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

Where's the legislation taking away the unions' rights to bargain, as Walker did?

Why are the teachers talking strike about this?? 90% of the Union members have voted to strike when school starts back.

I hope Emanuel handles this like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, I doubt he will but I can dream can't I??

 

[g5000]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

Where's the legislation taking away the unions' rights to bargain, as Walker did?

Wisconsin only took away certain collective bargaining rights. The public employee unions still retain their collective bargaining rights for salary.

That is why I say the end effect is identical between Walker and Emanuel. To wit, increased contributions to their pension plans and other benefits.

The paths may be different, but the endpoint is the same.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I see no where in there where Emanuel tries to block a unions right to exist

See the difference?

lol, figures this would be the spin put it..

How can you be that stupid?

 

[g5000]

Emanuel allies stand in for mayor in union battle - chicagotribune.com

Big letter (D) got your tongue lefties? Especially you Chris.

I see no where in there where Emanuel tries to block a unions right to exist

See the difference?

You seem to be under the impression that Scott Walker blocked a union's right to exist.

That is not the case. Walker only changed the public employee union's collective rights on pension benefits. He did not take away their right to exist, nor did he change their right to collectively bargain for salary.

In Chicago and in Wisconsin, the public employees need to increase their contributions to their pensions. To accomplish that in Wisconsin, their ability to block that increase had to be removed.

Does Chicago have the same roadblock to contribution increases that Wisconsin did? If not, then Emanuel does not have to use the same kind of tactics as were required in Wisconsin. So that may explain the difference.

Please don't speak from ignorance. It unneccesarily muddies the water.

 

[g5000]

I have been looking around and it appears the Chicago public employee unions do enjoy collective bargaining rights for their pension contributions. I do not have anything definitive to link to, but the circumstantial evidence I have found is pretty strong.

If so, this means Emanuel is going to run into the same opposition Walker did. How he approaches this problem will be interesting to observe.

Chicago made the identical mistake so many other municipalities and states made. During the heyday of the derivatives bubble, they either decreased or stopped their payments into the public employee pension plans altogether. This was due to an expected higher return on investment everyone was expecting during the bubble. If you expect higher returns, you will lower your payments into a plan since the higher returns will still meet your expected obligations.

Then the bubble burst and ROI is not only lower, it is lower than ever. Time to up the payments, radically.

This is going to be very painful.

 

[g5000]

What is pissing off the public employees is that all during the derivatives bubble, they were making their agreed to payments into their pension plans, but the states and cities were not making the matching contributions those states and cities were supposed to be making. They were using that money for other purposes instead. Baseball stadiums and the like.

 

[naturegirl]

I have been looking around and it appears the Chicago public employee unions do enjoy collective bargaining rights for their pension contributions. I do not have anything definitive to link to, but the circumstantial evidence I have found is pretty strong.

If so, this means Emanuel is going to run into the same opposition Walker did. How he approaches this problem will be interesting to observe.

Chicago made the identical mistake so many other municipalities and states made. During the heyday of the derivatives bubble, they either decreased or stopped their payments into the public employee pension plans altogether. This was due to an expected higher return on investment everyone was expecting during the bubble. If you expect higher returns, you will lower your payments into a plan since the higher returns will still meet your expected obligations.

Then the bubble burst and ROI is not only lower, it is lower than ever. Time to up the payments, radically.

This is going to be very painful.

Oh crap, now what's he gonna do??