Reversing my stand on the RNC and Ron Paul.

[PredFan]

I was having a discussion with a good friend who is a lot smarter than I am in the legal and political arena. I was lamenting on what I percieved as childish pissing and moaning about the way RP was treated in the convention.

My friend, who is too SoCon to be a Libertarain, explained to me why the ignoring of procedure by the establishment GOP was a bad thing. I'm not sure enough that I understand all of what he was saying but the point of this thread isn't to explain it. It is to admit that I was wrong.

Although I remain adamant that too many of my fellow Libertarians do more harm to the party than good with their behavior, on the subject of the GOP ignoring procedure, and even more alarming, their new attempt to cut out third party and grass roots movements in the future, I have to admit I was in error and join the side calling out the establishment GOP on this.

I should have known better since I was on the same side as the Establishment GOP.

And before your libtards come here and join me, Obama is way worse than the establishment GOP ever hope to be so don't waste your time. I will ignore you.

 

[uscitizen]

See! Romney had better win the womens vote

 

[Jackson]

I was having a discussion with a good friend who is a lot smarter than I am in the legal and political arena. I was lamenting on what I percieved as childish pissing and moaning about the way RP was treated in the convention.

My friend, who is too SoCon to be a Libertarain, explained to me why the ignoring of procedure by the establishment GOP was a bad thing. I'm not sure enough that I understand all of what he was saying but the point of this thread isn't to explain it. It is to admit that I was wrong.

Although I remain adamant that too many of my fellow Libertarians do more harm to the party than good with their behavior, on the subject of the GOP ignoring procedure, and even more alarming, their new attempt to cut out third party and grass roots movements in the future, I have to admit I was in error and join the side calling out the establishment GOP on this.

I should have known better since I was on the same side as the Establishment GOP.

And before your libtards come here and join me, Obama is way worse than the establishment GOP ever hope to be so don't waste your time. I will ignore you.

I commend you for having an open mind and listening to others you respect. That is the key to real knowledge and an informed decision about any issue. I may tend to disagree, but I value you for your fortrightedness in acknowledging you may have been wrong in an earlier estimation. All should have that objectivity.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Prior to the election of 1860 Abraham Lincoln was a loyal Whig and had ran as a Whig for political office.

But the Democrat party was staunchly pro-slavery and Lincoln knew slavery was evil. (no surprise since the Democrat party has been evil for a long time and has supported slavery in one form or another)

When the Whigs, tried to be Democrat lite supporting a compromise position (slavery was okay in some states but not in others) Lincoln jumped to a new party that offered a clear alternative.

The Republican party was staunchly abolitionist (anti-slavery) and offered a clear alternative to the pro-slavery Democrats, and the spineless Whigs.

Lincoln won the election of 1860 and the Whig party disappeared with the Republican party becoming the new second party.

This latest action by the Republicans is beginning to make me think that is what is needed again, and I have been a loyal Republican all my life.

A party that is a clear alternative to the Democrat party and the spineless Republicans.

I'm not advocating, going third party. Third parties don't work and have only caused the exact person you don't want to win.

I'm advocating a new party which is a clear alternative to the Democrat party, which leaves the Democrat lite Republican party on the dust heap of history.

The establishment wants a Democrat lite party. We need an alternative.

It's time to repeat the grand experiment of the election of 1860

It's obviously too late this election and I will vote for Romney, because my country needs to get rid of Obama.

But 2016 is coming. If Romney goes Democrat lite, it will be time to send another party of Whigs into obscurity.

That's my view on the subject.

And NO I don't mean a Ron Paul Party. Anything but that!

 

[Moonglow]

I also do not like the way the two parties have tied the hands of any third party.

 

[PredFan]

I was having a discussion with a good friend who is a lot smarter than I am in the legal and political arena. I was lamenting on what I percieved as childish pissing and moaning about the way RP was treated in the convention.

My friend, who is too SoCon to be a Libertarain, explained to me why the ignoring of procedure by the establishment GOP was a bad thing. I'm not sure enough that I understand all of what he was saying but the point of this thread isn't to explain it. It is to admit that I was wrong.

Although I remain adamant that too many of my fellow Libertarians do more harm to the party than good with their behavior, on the subject of the GOP ignoring procedure, and even more alarming, their new attempt to cut out third party and grass roots movements in the future, I have to admit I was in error and join the side calling out the establishment GOP on this.

I should have known better since I was on the same side as the Establishment GOP.

And before your libtards come here and join me, Obama is way worse than the establishment GOP ever hope to be so don't waste your time. I will ignore you.

I commend you for having an open mind and listening to others you respect. That is the key to real knowledge and an informed decision about any issue. I may tend to disagree, but I value you for your fortrightedness in acknowledging you may have been wrong in an earlier estimation. All should have that objectivity.

If it had been a minor issue, as I thought it was, I'd say "meh", and go on but the GOP's movements to limit grass roots and 3rd party participation in the future is more concerning.

 

[Ravi]

See! Romney had better win the womens vote

According to the RNC, women that don't care about rape causing pregnancy are already won.

 

[martybegan]

Prior to the election of 1860 Abraham Lincoln was a loyal Whig and had ran as a Whig for political office.

But the Democrat party was staunchly pro-slavery and Lincoln knew slavery was evil. (no surprise since the Democrat party has been evil for a long time and has supported slavery in one form or another)

When the Whigs, tried to be Democrat lite supporting a compromise position (slavery was okay in some states but not in others) Lincoln jumped to a new party that offered a clear alternative.

The Republican party was staunchly abolitionist (anti-slavery) and offered a clear alternative to the pro-slavery Democrats, and the spineless Whigs.

Lincoln won the election of 1860 and the Whig party disappeared with the Republican party becoming the new second party.

This latest action by the Republicans is beginning to make me think that is what is needed again, and I have been a loyal Republican all my life.

A party that is a clear alternative to the Democrat party and the spineless Republicans.

I'm not advocating, going third party. Third parties don't work and have only caused the exact person you don't want to win.

I'm advocating a new party which is a clear alternative to the Democrat party, which leaves the Democrat lite Republican party on the dust heap of history.

The establishment wants a Democrat lite party. We need an alternative.

It's time to repeat the grand experiment of the election of 1860

It's obviously too late this election and I will vote for Romney, because my country needs to get rid of Obama.

But 2016 is coming. If Romney goes Democrat lite, it will be time to send another party of Whigs into obscurity.

That's my view on the subject.

And NO I don't mean a Ron Paul Party. Anything but that!

Maybe its time to bring the Federalists back?

 

[PredFan]

Prior to the election of 1860 Abraham Lincoln was a loyal Whig and had ran as a Whig for political office.

But the Democrat party was staunchly pro-slavery and Lincoln knew slavery was evil. (no surprise since the Democrat party has been evil for a long time and has supported slavery in one form or another)

When the Whigs, tried to be Democrat lite supporting a compromise position (slavery was okay in some states but not in others) Lincoln jumped to a new party that offered a clear alternative.

The Republican party was staunchly abolitionist (anti-slavery) and offered a clear alternative to the pro-slavery Democrats, and the spineless Whigs.

Lincoln won the election of 1860 and the Whig party disappeared with the Republican party becoming the new second party.

This latest action by the Republicans is beginning to make me think that is what is needed again, and I have been a loyal Republican all my life.

A party that is a clear alternative to the Democrat party and the spineless Republicans.

I'm not advocating, going third party. Third parties don't work and have only caused the exact person you don't want to win.

I'm advocating a new party which is a clear alternative to the Democrat party, which leaves the Democrat lite Republican party on the dust heap of history.

The establishment wants a Democrat lite party. We need an alternative.

It's time to repeat the grand experiment of the election of 1860

It's obviously too late this election and I will vote for Romney, because my country needs to get rid of Obama.

But 2016 is coming. If Romney goes Democrat lite, it will be time to send another party of Whigs into obscurity.

That's my view on the subject.

And NO I don't mean a Ron Paul Party. Anything but that!

Well, the way to get a party going these days is not aiming for the highest office in the land. This I have tried and tried to convince my Libertarian friends was true. Start in the local elections, get your party in power, let it's policies be seen. then go for the big prise.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I also do not like the way the two parties have tied the hands of any third party.

Third parties don't work.

They NEVER have.

ANY election where a third party has prominently run, has resulted in the EXACT wrong person being elected.

Perot resulted in Clinton.

Nader resulted in Bush.

I could go back to the Bull Moose party, and it would be the same thing.

Every time a third party has run, the very person, they are most against wins.

Lincoln did not run third party. He ran the new 2nd party.

History proves more than two parties is disaster.

Whether it's Italian politics with resulted in Benito Mussolini, or the Weimar Republic which resulted in Hitler.

Multiple parties are chaos and from the chaos people start clammoring for a "strong leader."

This is one of the reasons Plato called Democracy the worst form of government.

History is a better teacher of good governmance than the dreams of what "could be." Trust me.

Unfortunately, too many people ignore history, because it doesn't teach what they want to hear.

 

[g5000]

Maybe its time to bring the Federalists back?

Anti-Federalists.

Or the original Jefferson Republican party.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Prior to the election of 1860 Abraham Lincoln was a loyal Whig and had ran as a Whig for political office.

But the Democrat party was staunchly pro-slavery and Lincoln knew slavery was evil. (no surprise since the Democrat party has been evil for a long time and has supported slavery in one form or another)

When the Whigs, tried to be Democrat lite supporting a compromise position (slavery was okay in some states but not in others) Lincoln jumped to a new party that offered a clear alternative.

The Republican party was staunchly abolitionist (anti-slavery) and offered a clear alternative to the pro-slavery Democrats, and the spineless Whigs.

Lincoln won the election of 1860 and the Whig party disappeared with the Republican party becoming the new second party.

This latest action by the Republicans is beginning to make me think that is what is needed again, and I have been a loyal Republican all my life.

A party that is a clear alternative to the Democrat party and the spineless Republicans.

I'm not advocating, going third party. Third parties don't work and have only caused the exact person you don't want to win.

I'm advocating a new party which is a clear alternative to the Democrat party, which leaves the Democrat lite Republican party on the dust heap of history.

The establishment wants a Democrat lite party. We need an alternative.

It's time to repeat the grand experiment of the election of 1860

It's obviously too late this election and I will vote for Romney, because my country needs to get rid of Obama.

But 2016 is coming. If Romney goes Democrat lite, it will be time to send another party of Whigs into obscurity.

That's my view on the subject.

And NO I don't mean a Ron Paul Party. Anything but that!

Well, the way to get a party going these days is not aiming for the highest office in the land. This I have tried and tried to convince my Libertarian friends was true. Start in the local elections, get your party in power, let it's policies be seen. then go for the big prise.

I'm not sure I agree. That's not how it worked out for Lincoln.

He had gone home and been out of politics for nine years before he jumped back in over the issue of slavery.

What you need is a clear alternative on a hot button issue that rivets the country LIKE slavery.

Until then, it's not going to happen.

 

[Jackson]

I was having a discussion with a good friend who is a lot smarter than I am in the legal and political arena. I was lamenting on what I percieved as childish pissing and moaning about the way RP was treated in the convention.

My friend, who is too SoCon to be a Libertarain, explained to me why the ignoring of procedure by the establishment GOP was a bad thing. I'm not sure enough that I understand all of what he was saying but the point of this thread isn't to explain it. It is to admit that I was wrong.

Although I remain adamant that too many of my fellow Libertarians do more harm to the party than good with their behavior, on the subject of the GOP ignoring procedure, and even more alarming, their new attempt to cut out third party and grass roots movements in the future, I have to admit I was in error and join the side calling out the establishment GOP on this.

I should have known better since I was on the same side as the Establishment GOP.

And before your libtards come here and join me, Obama is way worse than the establishment GOP ever hope to be so don't waste your time. I will ignore you.

I commend you for having an open mind and listening to others you respect. That is the key to real knowledge and an informed decision about any issue. I may tend to disagree, but I value you for your fortrightedness in acknowledging you may have been wrong in an earlier estimation. All should have that objectivity.

If it had been a minor issue, as I thought it was, I'd say "meh", and go on but the GOP's movements to limit grass roots and 3rd party participation in the future is more concerning.

I agree with that, but the Conventions is not where you are going to start a movement to a third party. We have to change our structure of the entire election process.

 

[teapartysamurai]

See! Romney had better win the womens vote

According to the RNC, women that don't care about rape causing pregnancy are already won.

See what I mean about a clear alternative to the lying Democrats?

Our present Republican party cowers before such ludicrous accusations.

We need a party with spine, who could tell a party of such nonsense:

"Screw you, we don't care what you say, because the only time you aren't lying is when your lips are't moving!"

 

[martybegan]

Maybe its time to bring the Federalists back?

Anti-Federalists.

Or the original Jefferson Republican party.

Good point. I would still call them federalists, but with a platform of federalism, where we go back to letting states decide issues not directly given to the feds via the constitution.

Maybe federalism party is a better name.

 

[naturegirl]

See! Romney had better win the womens vote

According to the RNC, women that don't care about rape causing pregnancy are already won.

I am truly convinced you are nucking futs!!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Maybe its time to bring the Federalists back?

Anti-Federalists.

Or the original Jefferson Republican party.

Good point. I would still call them federalists, but with a platform of federalism, where we go back to letting states decide issues not directly given to the feds via the constitution.

Maybe federalism party is a better name.

I think too many ignorants would equate federalism with federal (BIG) government.

 

[PredFan]

I commend you for having an open mind and listening to others you respect. That is the key to real knowledge and an informed decision about any issue. I may tend to disagree, but I value you for your fortrightedness in acknowledging you may have been wrong in an earlier estimation. All should have that objectivity.

If it had been a minor issue, as I thought it was, I'd say "meh", and go on but the GOP's movements to limit grass roots and 3rd party participation in the future is more concerning.

I agree with that, but the Conventions is not where you are going to start a movement to a third party. We have to change our structure of the entire election process.

Oh, I agree, but I have to now state that they are justified in being pissed off about it.

 

[martybegan]

Anti-Federalists.

Or the original Jefferson Republican party.

Good point. I would still call them federalists, but with a platform of federalism, where we go back to letting states decide issues not directly given to the feds via the constitution.

Maybe federalism party is a better name.

I think too many ignorants would equate federalism with federal (BIG) government.

That might be a problem, I agree.