Rethinking the Hockey Stick and Hide the Decline

[IanC]

If Mann et al had simply retained the data showing that proxies do not show correlatio with present temperature, would it have made a difference?

My problem with AGW is that data is twisted into misdirection. If there had been more honesty and less exaggeration would we be further ahead in our understanding? I don't like being tricked. And once climate science integrity has been compromised it is hard to get it back.

Or was it necessary to inflate the rhetoric just to get people to notice?

Just wondering if the ends justify the means.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hide the decline didn't mean they were hiding data showing a decline in temps, no. It meant Phil Jones tried to hide Mann Deee-lite CD's so it should have been "Hide the Deee-lite"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4D1HSL7P98]YouTube - Dee Lite - Groove is in the Heart (Music Video)[/ame]

 

[IanC]

this video is more appropriate
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLvu_4]YouTube - Censoring The Decrease in Global Temperatures[/ame]

 

[Old Rocks]

Decrease in global temperatures?

August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Now Spencer is hardly a friend of those pointing out the warming. But look at his graph. The low of 2008 is higher than any of the previous lows. And the period from 2002 to2007 is higher than any of the previous highs with the exception of 1998.

Now, according to GISS, the warmest years prior to 2010 have been 1998 and 2005. And it looks like 2010 will be competing with those years for the warmest year. That is three very hot years in a period of 13 years. And I'll bet that we will have a year that exceeds any of the three before 2015.

The decrease of ice in the alpine glaciers, in the Ice Caps of Greenland and Antarctica, and in the Arctic Ocean definatly gives lie to the idea that tempertures are decreasing.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ian, just because your side is addicted to lying does not mean that the scientists are. For that you have posit a worldwide conspiracy among scientists of many differant political systems. I assume you have been fitted for a tinfoil hat.

 

[camcooh2]

Only liberals believe the ends justify the means. It's one easy way to identify them.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The decline in 2007-2008 was caused by a strong La nina, which has the opposite effect of El nino. On top of that we've been in the deepest solar minimum in close to 100 years, so that has some effect on the climate system. Many things are against warming right now, but some how we're still seeing record after record globally.

1999-2000 also seen a strong La nina after the super El nino of 1997-1998, which had cooler temperature. I'd go as far as to say if we where to get out of the "worst"/deepest solar min in the last 100 years its estimated -.1 to -.15c of cooling would likely lead to years like 2009, 2010 smashing 1998 and making it look like a joke. Get a el nino that doesn't slide into a strong la nina within the same year, but to moderate or remains nino in some form over the whole year then you will get what is called a ass kicking year for 1998 and 2005.

La nina is also bad for a rising trend to and induces a cooling effect on the global ocean temperature avg, which case also does the same over land.

So you can talk about decline in 2007-2008, but also 1999-2000, but that is short term effects of the ENSO. All this is just masking the warming effects that has increased by .15c+ since 2000, which is why years with a weaker nino and low solar forcing is competing with 1998.

 

[westwall]

Decrease in global temperatures?

August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Now Spencer is hardly a friend of those pointing out the warming. But look at his graph. The low of 2008 is higher than any of the previous lows. And the period from 2002 to2007 is higher than any of the previous highs with the exception of 1998.

Now, according to GISS, the warmest years prior to 2010 have been 1998 and 2005. And it looks like 2010 will be competing with those years for the warmest year. That is three very hot years in a period of 13 years. And I'll bet that we will have a year that exceeds any of the three before 2015.

The decrease of ice in the alpine glaciers, in the Ice Caps of Greenland and Antarctica, and in the Arctic Ocean definatly gives lie to the idea that tempertures are decreasing.

Try finding some unadulterated data there olfraud. I dare you. It can't be found. All the data that NOAA has collected for the last decade is useless. GISS gets their raw data from NOAA so guess what.....yep you guessed it, worthless as well. Take all of your hot records and toss them out the window, they don't exist except in the minds of the alarmists who allowed false data to populate the archives of the world. The same holds true in Australia and China and New Zealand.

Epic fail.

 

[westwall]

Ian, just because your side is addicted to lying does not mean that the scientists are. For that you have posit a worldwide conspiracy among scientists of many differant political systems. I assume you have been fitted for a tinfoil hat.

You need to quit with the juvenile "you lied" BS the only side that has PROVABLY NOT TOLD THE TRUTH IS YOURS!

 

[ScienceRocks]

Ian, just because your side is addicted to lying does not mean that the scientists are. For that you have posit a worldwide conspiracy among scientists of many differant political systems. I assume you have been fitted for a tinfoil hat.

You need to quit with the juvenile "you lied" BS the only side that has PROVABLY NOT TOLD THE TRUTH IS YOURS!

Our climate should be cooling westwall, because the downward slope in solar output since 1950 and really so now being that we're within the deepest solar minimum since 1910 and have to go back to the dalton of 1800-1830 to find one that was much larger then now. The question that should be asked is why on gods earth are we at the highest levels since 900-1,200 ad right now? Shouldn't be.

 

[Old Rocks]

Decrease in global temperatures?

August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Now Spencer is hardly a friend of those pointing out the warming. But look at his graph. The low of 2008 is higher than any of the previous lows. And the period from 2002 to2007 is higher than any of the previous highs with the exception of 1998.

Now, according to GISS, the warmest years prior to 2010 have been 1998 and 2005. And it looks like 2010 will be competing with those years for the warmest year. That is three very hot years in a period of 13 years. And I'll bet that we will have a year that exceeds any of the three before 2015.

The decrease of ice in the alpine glaciers, in the Ice Caps of Greenland and Antarctica, and in the Arctic Ocean definatly gives lie to the idea that tempertures are decreasing.

Try finding some unadulterated data there olfraud. I dare you. It can't be found. All the data that NOAA has collected for the last decade is useless. GISS gets their raw data from NOAA so guess what.....yep you guessed it, worthless as well. Take all of your hot records and toss them out the window, they don't exist except in the minds of the alarmists who allowed false data to populate the archives of the world. The same holds true in Australia and China and New Zealand.

Epic fail.

In other words all the scientists in the world are lying and only you know the real truth.

 

[westwall]

Decrease in global temperatures?

August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Now Spencer is hardly a friend of those pointing out the warming. But look at his graph. The low of 2008 is higher than any of the previous lows. And the period from 2002 to2007 is higher than any of the previous highs with the exception of 1998.

Now, according to GISS, the warmest years prior to 2010 have been 1998 and 2005. And it looks like 2010 will be competing with those years for the warmest year. That is three very hot years in a period of 13 years. And I'll bet that we will have a year that exceeds any of the three before 2015.

The decrease of ice in the alpine glaciers, in the Ice Caps of Greenland and Antarctica, and in the Arctic Ocean definatly gives lie to the idea that tempertures are decreasing.

Try finding some unadulterated data there olfraud. I dare you. It can't be found. All the data that NOAA has collected for the last decade is useless. GISS gets their raw data from NOAA so guess what.....yep you guessed it, worthless as well. Take all of your hot records and toss them out the window, they don't exist except in the minds of the alarmists who allowed false data to populate the archives of the world. The same holds true in Australia and China and New Zealand.

Epic fail.

In other words all the scientists in the world are lying and only you know the real truth.

Not at all, but I do know when data is being distorted. NOAA satellites that read 15 degrees too high, Australian temp data that has been adjusted back over a 50 year period, US temp data likewise adjusted back 50 years to read higher than it was, the same in New Zealand, the same in China. Like I said olfraud, find me some un-screwed with data.

You carp about liars but as ususal those who spout off the loudest are the most guilty.

 

[westwall]

Ian, just because your side is addicted to lying does not mean that the scientists are. For that you have posit a worldwide conspiracy among scientists of many differant political systems. I assume you have been fitted for a tinfoil hat.

You need to quit with the juvenile "you lied" BS the only side that has PROVABLY NOT TOLD THE TRUTH IS YOURS!

Our climate should be cooling westwall, because the downward slope in solar output since 1950 and really so now being that we're within the deepest solar minimum since 1910 and have to go back to the dalton of 1800-1830 to find one that was much larger then now. The question that should be asked is why on gods earth are we at the highest levels since 900-1,200 ad right now? Shouldn't be.

Maybe. We are in the midst an interglacial warming trend. The temperatures rise and fall due to a wide variety of reasons that we are only now beginning to study. We honestly havn't a clue as to how the climate operates. Trends of 10 years are pretty much meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

Twits like Chris love to bombard us with daily doses of "record" temperatures that are simply ridiculous knowing what we now know about the corrupted methodologies and fraudulently disseminated information from NOAA.

Hundreds of years will pass before we really know what is happening in the long term climate cycle. We can postulate what will happen based on the historical record but basing climate predictions on CO2 is quite simply stupid. We know that CO2 is NOT a driver, it is in fact PUSHED along by the warming which started at least 400 years prior to the rise in CO2. That is a fact. No matter how loud Chris and olfraud and konrad bleat about it it will remain a fact.

One other thing that we do know is that the warmer it gets the better it gets. That too is well documented in the historical record as well as the paleontoloical record. That is a simple fact. They can whine and snivel like little babies but warm is good and cold is bad
and provably so.

All the alarmists can do is say "might" or "maybe" like any other good conman.

 

[Old Rocks]

Try finding some unadulterated data there olfraud. I dare you. It can't be found. All the data that NOAA has collected for the last decade is useless. GISS gets their raw data from NOAA so guess what.....yep you guessed it, worthless as well. Take all of your hot records and toss them out the window, they don't exist except in the minds of the alarmists who allowed false data to populate the archives of the world. The same holds true in Australia and China and New Zealand.

Epic fail.

In other words all the scientists in the world are lying and only you know the real truth.

Not at all, but I do know when data is being distorted. NOAA satellites that read 15 degrees too high, Australian temp data that has been adjusted back over a 50 year period, US temp data likewise adjusted back 50 years to read higher than it was, the same in New Zealand, the same in China. Like I said olfraud, find me some un-screwed with data.

You carp about liars but as ususal those who spout off the loudest are the most guilty.

Well, boy, you know that you are spewing shit. The temps come in from around the world, from satelites that belong to differant countries.

And, once again, you accuse working scientists of fraud with no evidence whatsoever. Not just one particular group of scientists, but all scientists worldwide that are involved in climate research.

 

[westwall]

In other words all the scientists in the world are lying and only you know the real truth.

Not at all, but I do know when data is being distorted. NOAA satellites that read 15 degrees too high, Australian temp data that has been adjusted back over a 50 year period, US temp data likewise adjusted back 50 years to read higher than it was, the same in New Zealand, the same in China. Like I said olfraud, find me some un-screwed with data.

You carp about liars but as ususal those who spout off the loudest are the most guilty.

Well, boy, you know that you are spewing shit. The temps come in from around the world, from satelites that belong to differant countries.

And, once again, you accuse working scientists of fraud with no evidence whatsoever. Not just one particular group of scientists, but all scientists worldwide that are involved in climate research.

Not all climatologists are crooks. I think there is a very small, very vocal, well connected minority thar are however. A person would have to be utterly blind or dishonest themselves to see what has gone on and ignore it. Which are you?