Restoration of Civil Rights should include the 2nd Amendment

[william the wie]

Why doesn't it? Do we want voters that cannot be trusted defend themselves?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

A vote is more dangerous than a bullet.

Personally, I'd restore none of them. Penalties for screwing up.

 

[william the wie]

A vote is more dangerous than a bullet.

Personally, I'd restore none of them. Penalties for screwing up.

Oh I agree but it is a great first step in denazification of the blue wall I hope the Supremes agree.

 

[JoeB131]

Why doesn't it? Do we want voters that cannot be trusted defend themselves?

33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries every year...

Only a handful involve "people defending themselves". Most of them are 'some idiot who never should have had a gun hurting themselves or others'.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why doesn't it? Do we want voters that cannot be trusted defend themselves?

In some states it does.

Depending on the nature of the crime and the specific state, the civil rights restoration process will also lift the federal ban that renders one a prohibited person.

If convicted in a Federal court, there is no such recourse.

But the thread premise is ignorant nonsense, regardless.

Prohibiting convicted felons from possessing firearms does not ‘violate’ the Second Amendment, whether one’s civil rights at the state level are restored or not – the Heller Court made that perfectly clear.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

A vote is more dangerous than a bullet.

Personally, I'd restore none of them. Penalties for screwing up.

Oh I agree but it is a great first step in denazification of the blue wall I hope the Supremes agree.

This post is as idiotic as the thread premise.

The Supreme Court is not going to strike down Federal law that renders convicted felons prohibited persons.

Nor will the Court invalidate similar state laws.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Why doesn't it? Do we want voters that cannot be trusted defend themselves?

33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries every year...

Only a handful involve "people defending themselves". Most of them are 'some idiot who never should have had a gun hurting themselves or others'.

How many are suicide?

 

[JoeB131]

How many are suicide?

doesn't matter.

 

[ColonelAngus]

How many are suicide?

doesn't matter.

Does matter

 

[JoeB131]

Does matter

No, it really doesn't. If there hadn't been a gun in the house that day, that person would still be alive.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Does matter

No, it really doesn't. If there hadn't been a gun in the house that day, that person would still be alive.

Are you claiming there is no other way to commit suicide?

I just want to know where you are coming from.

A gun is the only way to kill yourself?

 

[JoeB131]

Are you claiming there is no other way to commit suicide?

I just want to know where you are coming from.

A gun is the only way to kill yourself?

Not going to waste time on you... had this argument with tons of gun nuts before, and it's a waste of time.

They didn't walk out in front of a car, they shot themselves with a gun someone in that house bought for protection. Maybe if they walked out in front of the car, they'd have had time to think about it. Maybe someone would have stopped them. Maybe the car impact wouldn't have been fatal and they'd have gotten the help they need.

Guns eliminate all those possibilities. While most suicide attempts never try again, gun suicide is 96% fatal.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Are you claiming there is no other way to commit suicide?

I just want to know where you are coming from.

A gun is the only way to kill yourself?

Not going to waste time on you... had this argument with tons of gun nuts before, and it's a waste of time.

They didn't walk out in front of a car, they shot themselves with a gun someone in that house bought for protection. Maybe if they walked out in front of the car, they'd have had time to think about it. Maybe someone would have stopped them. Maybe the car impact wouldn't have been fatal and they'd have gotten the help they need.

Guns eliminate all those possibilities. While most suicide attempts never try again, gun suicide is 96% fatal.

You claimed if there wasn’t a gun in the home, there would be no suicide.

We have 300million guns in America.

You are clearly for abolishing the 2nd ammendment and confiscating guns. It’s in your argument, but for the gun, no suicide.

You don’t want to waste your time on me because you are faulty in your logic.

I am even a bit soft on the 2nd ammendment. I am not sure all citizens need AR-15s,but if you classify anyone who doesn’t agree with you as a gun nut, you are failing from the start.

 

[JoeB131]

You claimed if there wasn’t a gun in the home, there would be no suicide.

We have 300million guns in America.

You are clearly for abolishing the 2nd ammendment and confiscating guns. It’s in your argument, but for the gun, no suicide.

I am for abolishing the Second Amendment because it makes it too easy for crazy people to get guns and do awful things.

You don’t want to waste your time on me because you are faulty in your logic.

No, i don't want to waste time with you because you gun nuts are all crazy and are impervious to logic or common decency.

You seem to think that school kids being rolled out to the meat wagon is perfectly acceptable because you need to compensate for a tiny dick.

I am even a bit soft on the 2nd ammendment. I am not sure all citizens need AR-15s,but if you classify anyone who doesn’t agree with you as a gun nut, you are failing from the start.

No, you guys are all gun nuts. ONce you start with the premise that gun ownership is a 'Right" as clear as the right to vote or the right to free speech or religion, that's a crazy position.

Gun ownership should be based on need, mental stability to own one and competency at using it. That's kind of what the Second Amendment should have been about when it talked about "Well-Regulated Militias".

They did not say, "Mowing down preschoolers, being necessary to a free state, the right to own military grade firepower shall not be infringed."

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You claimed if there wasn’t a gun in the home, there would be no suicide.

We have 300million guns in America.

You are clearly for abolishing the 2nd ammendment and confiscating guns. It’s in your argument, but for the gun, no suicide.

I am for abolishing the Second Amendment because it makes it too easy for crazy people to get guns and do awful things.

Crazy people do awful things both with and without guns. Why not lock up the crazy people?

No, you guys are all gun nuts. ONce you start with the premise that gun ownership is a 'Right" as clear as the right to vote or the right to free speech or religion, that's a crazy position.

The individual right to bear arms is a clear Constitutional right, as the SCOTUS reiterated in DC v. Heller.

The right to vote is not. If you disagree, post the Article, Section and Paragraph granting a general right to vote.

Gun ownership should be based on need, mental stability to own one and competency at using it.

Restrictions based upon "need" are unconstitutional. The others? Perhaps, but those are not the venue of the federal government.

 

[JoeB131]

Crazy people do awful things both with and without guns. Why not lock up the crazy people?

Because I don't want to live in a police state...

do you?

The individual right to bear arms is a clear Constitutional right, as the SCOTUS reiterated in DC v. Heller.

The right to vote is not. If you disagree, post the Article, Section and Paragraph granting a general right to vote.

blah, blah, blah... nobody found a right to a gun in the Second until Crazy Tony Scalia came along.

The Second is about Militias, not guns.

Restrictions based upon "need" are unconstitutional. The others? Perhaps, but those are not the venue of the federal government.

Until it is.

Actually, there's a whole lot of ways the Feds can fuck with the gun industry.

Top of my list, repeal the idiotic law that holds gun sellers blameless. Betcha when a few mass shooting families clean out a few gun sellers, they are going to be REALLY KEEN on making sure the nuts don't get them.

The second thing I'd do is let the gun sellers know if they are irresponsible in their sales, they don't get government contracts. Since the Government is a bigger customer than Crazy McShooty, they'll change their tactics really fast.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Because I don't want to live in a police state...

do you?

Nope, but I do want to lock up crazy people.

blah, blah, blah... nobody found a right to a gun in the Second until Crazy Tony Scalia came along.

The Second is about Militias, not guns.

Nonsense. That fantasy took hold in 1936. It has been soundly rejected.

Restrictions based upon "need" are unconstitutional. The others? Perhaps, but those are not the venue of the federal government.

Until it is.

Actually, there's a whole lot of ways the Feds can fuck with the gun industry.

There are many things government can do extra-constitutionally, so long as the people in their ignorance permit it.

Top of my list, repeal the idiotic law that holds gun sellers blameless. Betcha when a few mass shooting families clean out a few gun sellers, they are going to be REALLY KEEN on making sure the nuts don't get them.

Unconstitutional.

The second thing I'd do is let the gun sellers know if they are irresponsible in their sales, they don't get government contracts. Since the Government is a bigger customer than Crazy McShooty, they'll change their tactics really fast.

I know of no such circumstances, but perhaps you have some to share.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope, but I do want to lock up crazy people.

we already lock up too many people in this country.

Nonsense. That fantasy took hold in 1936. It has been soundly rejected.

Actually, it goes back further than that... the fantasy is that the Second is about gun ownership, and it started when the nuts took over the NRA. Before the 1970's, even the NRA thought gun laws were a good idea.

There are many things government can do extra-constitutionally, so long as the people in their ignorance permit it.

Yawn, the constitution isn't a suicide pact.

 

[CowboyTed]

Does matter

No, it really doesn't. If there hadn't been a gun in the house that day, that person would still be alive.

Are you claiming there is no other way to commit suicide?

I just want to know where you are coming from.

A gun is the only way to kill yourself?

Gun is a far more effective way of committing sucide...

Most lethal methods of suicide | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource

Other methods are more painful and less lethal...

 

[Kondor3]

From a BBC article on the subject, free of NRA influence, pertaining to 2016...

Based on US Center for Disease Control figures, as relayed by Mother Jones...

Lots of other relevant charts where that came from...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081