Restaurant Adds Mandatory Tip for Non-English Speakers

[gekaap]

We have had this discussion about tips before.

Wait staff get paid minimum wage in SF PLUS all tips they make.

Good for servers in San Fran. What does that have to do with Hawaii?

Overpaid in my opinion.

And corporate execs are overpaid in my opinion. BTW, what's the cost of living like in San Fran? Higher than most places, from what I understand. At the end of the day, if you don't have the money, or decency, to tip your server, you should just stay home.

Tips are voluntary. A good deal of wait staff SUCK and they still feel they deserve 15%. Thats bullshit.

A good deal of customers suck and feel think that they deserve to be waited on hand and foot, and not pay for the service no less. THAT is bullshit. After spending many years in the service industry, and anyone who has been there can back me up on this, the people who are most adverse to tipping are the ones who have the worst attitudes, who are the most demanding, who do the most to make the server's job more and more difficult. By all means, if a server fails to give you proper service, let that reflect in their tip. But if you aren't capable of evaluating the quality of their service in a realistic, appreciative way, then you don't have enough class to deserve to be waited upon.

 

[gekaap]

You know something? I have never eaten at a place that does that, but I have to say, that if I did, I would refuse to pay the frigging tip. I'm sorry, a tip is supposed to be a "thank you" to the server for the job they did. It is never supposed to be mandatory. I pay 20% (rounded off) when I go out to eat, but I will be dog-goned if I am going to let a restaurant require a tip.

And if I went into a restaurant and saw that, I would leave and never return.

Immie

There are many places that will auto-grat a party of at least a designated size. This has to be listed in the menu, though, in order for it to have a legal basis. The reason it is so done is because when larger parties go out, there is an increased risk of an unjustly low tip. If a restaurant lists in their menu that they auto-grat a party of 8 (for example, this is a common party size that evokes auto-grats) and you refuse to pay it, then any refusal becomes subject to the same theft charges as if you tried to skip the bill. And yes, I've seen times the cops get involved over an auto-grat.

One thing that people often don't understand is that servers in restaurants don't just sit back and collect tons of money. Servers don't get to keep all of their tips, generally speaking. They have to tip out other people. As a standard matter, bus persons and bar tenders will have to be tipped out, and depending on the restaurant there may also be an expo and/or food runner who is tipped by the server as well. The standard is to tip such positions 1% of the server's total sales, with the total tip out ranging from 3%-4% depending on the restaurant. Tip outs are mandatory, regardless of how well these support people perform their jobs, and the server is ALWAYS on the line to suffer for your food being cooked wrong, or your seat not being wiped, or your drink being mixed wrong, or plenty of other things that are beyond their control. So next time you're out to dinner, and you consume a $50 bill, and you're thinking of leaving a $3 tip, ask yourself how much you're leaving the server and how much they'll have to pay someone else.

Another thing that people do not understand is that in the grand scheme of things, going out to eat is already a racket as it is, and the idea of objecting to tipping your server only really makes you a low class hustler. You agree to pay $2 for a soda that only costs the restaurant $.0025, and $15 for an entree that costs the company $2, or $5 for a cocktail that costs the company $.25 in liquor. You have no objection to these prices, so why should tipping 20% to your server be a problem?

 

[Immanuel]

You know something? I have never eaten at a place that does that, but I have to say, that if I did, I would refuse to pay the frigging tip. I'm sorry, a tip is supposed to be a "thank you" to the server for the job they did. It is never supposed to be mandatory. I pay 20% (rounded off) when I go out to eat, but I will be dog-goned if I am going to let a restaurant require a tip.

And if I went into a restaurant and saw that, I would leave and never return.

Immie

There are many places that will auto-grat a party of at least a designated size. This has to be listed in the menu, though, in order for it to have a legal basis. The reason it is so done is because when larger parties go out, there is an increased risk of an unjustly low tip. If a restaurant lists in their menu that they auto-grat a party of 8 (for example, this is a common party size that evokes auto-grats) and you refuse to pay it, then any refusal becomes subject to the same theft charges as if you tried to skip the bill. And yes, I've seen times the cops get involved over an auto-grat.

One thing that people often don't understand is that servers in restaurants don't just sit back and collect tons of money. Servers don't get to keep all of their tips, generally speaking. They have to tip out other people. As a standard matter, bus persons and bar tenders will have to be tipped out, and depending on the restaurant there may also be an expo and/or food runner who is tipped by the server as well. The standard is to tip such positions 1% of the server's total sales, with the total tip out ranging from 3%-4% depending on the restaurant. Tip outs are mandatory, regardless of how well these support people perform their jobs, and the server is ALWAYS on the line to suffer for your food being cooked wrong, or your seat not being wiped, or your drink being mixed wrong, or plenty of other things that are beyond their control. So next time you're out to dinner, and you consume a $50 bill, and you're thinking of leaving a $3 tip, ask yourself how much you're leaving the server and how much they'll have to pay someone else.

Another thing that people do not understand is that in the grand scheme of things, going out to eat is already a racket as it is, and the idea of objecting to tipping your server only really makes you a low class hustler. You agree to pay $2 for a soda that only costs the restaurant $.0025, and $15 for an entree that costs the company $2, or $5 for a cocktail that costs the company $.25 in liquor. You have no objection to these prices, so why should tipping 20% to your server be a problem?

Actually, I do understand all of that. One of my first jobs was as a busboy. My tips came from the wait staff.

However, auto-gratuity is not gratuity. It is an additional charge. I have never not tipped anyone. I do not recall ever having not tipped the wait staff even when I have felt that they really did not provide the service that I expected. The point is that tipping is at the discretion of the customer not the restaurant or the staff. If a customer thinks the wait staff did a poor job (and sometimes they do) they should not be forced to give a gratuity.

I am sorry if there are inconsiderate individuals out there that do not tip appropriately, but as far as I am concerned the moment you make me "tip", it is no longer a gratuity, but simply a fee the restaurant is adding on to my bill because they do not feel that their staff is of a quality that is deserving of gratuities.

Immie

 

[Anachronism]

Personally, I have no problem with this at all. It's a means of attempting to ensure that people actually leave something for the staff even though they come from backwards places like Europe where tipping is not generally the rule of thumb.

Personally, any business that I owned wouldn't have that problem, because on the front door of the establishment would be a sign.... "This is an ENGLISH ONLY facility. If you don't, can't or won't speak it Please Take Your Business Elsewhere."

 

[jillian]

i'm sure you'd be just as for this if europeans did it to trash like you.

I don't think they let Tank outside without a leash, so no worries.
'

i hadn't thought about that.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... true enough.

 

[The Hatter]

Some background: In Japan, it's normal to pay the restaurant bill at the register instead of to a waiter/waitress. This situation in many ways is a case of culture clash.

 

[syrenn]

We have had this discussion about tips before.

Wait staff get paid minimum wage in SF PLUS all tips they make.

Good for servers in San Fran. What does that have to do with Hawaii?

Overpaid in my opinion.

And corporate execs are overpaid in my opinion. BTW, what's the cost of living like in San Fran? Higher than most places, from what I understand. At the end of the day, if you don't have the money, or decency, to tip your server, you should just stay home.

Tips are voluntary. A good deal of wait staff SUCK and they still feel they deserve 15%. Thats bullshit.

A good deal of customers suck and feel think that they deserve to be waited on hand and foot, and not pay for the service no less. THAT is bullshit. After spending many years in the service industry, and anyone who has been there can back me up on this, the people who are most adverse to tipping are the ones who have the worst attitudes, who are the most demanding, who do the most to make the server's job more and more difficult. By all means, if a server fails to give you proper service, let that reflect in their tip. But if you aren't capable of evaluating the quality of their service in a realistic, appreciative way, then you don't have enough class to deserve to be waited upon.

Exactly. Crap service, crap tip. Arbitrarily adding in a tip is bullshit.

Trust me, i know what servers put up with.

And just for the record, it is not out of my scope to leave 50 -100% tip for good service.

 

[gekaap]

Actually, I do understand all of that. One of my first jobs was as a busboy. My tips came from the wait staff.

However, auto-gratuity is not gratuity. It is an additional charge. I have never not tipped anyone. I do not recall ever having not tipped the wait staff even when I have felt that they really did not provide the service that I expected. The point is that tipping is at the discretion of the customer not the restaurant or the staff. If a customer thinks the wait staff did a poor job (and sometimes they do) they should not be forced to give a gratuity.

I am sorry if there are inconsiderate individuals out there that do not tip appropriately, but as far as I am concerned the moment you make me "tip", it is no longer a gratuity, but simply a fee the restaurant is adding on to my bill because they do not feel that their staff is of a quality that is deserving of gratuities.

Immie

I agree, there are times when a server will drop the ball, and if that happens then by all means may the tip reflect that. But if a restaurant displays in their menu that they will auto-grat a table, then staying and ordering means that you accept that stipulation of the auto-grat. Of course, not all instances will actually result in an auto-grat. Some servers don't like to auto-grat, and some add the auto-grat only under certain circumstances. But if you end up with an auto-grat I see it as being a simple matter of tipping what you already would tip. If there was an issue with the service, then you should take the time to bring up the situation to the manager so that your concerns can be addressed.

As a server, I often had discussions with co-workers about when/why we would or would not auto-grat, and how we ourselves responded to being auto-gratted if we went out. My position has always been that if I'm going to leave the tip already, it doesn't make a difference to me that they add the auto-grat. If the service leaves me unwanting to pay that tip, then I'll address my displeasure with the manager. And if I really have that much of a problem with it, then I don't have to go out to that restaurant. But I can't object to a company trying to make reasonable efforts to take care of their employees and protect them from being at the mercy of people who are douche bags. And I don't mind the fact that the company does not know me from Adam.

 

[gekaap]

Exactly. Crap service, crap tip. Arbitrarily adding in a tip is bullshit.

Trust me, i know what servers put up with.

And just for the record, it is not out of my scope to leave 50 -100% tip for good service.

I, too, will leave "over the top" tips at times. The thing is that the restaurant doesn't know you from anyone else. Despite however well you may take care of your server, a company cannot adopt policies that are based on what you alone do or don't do. That's just not reasonable. That's why I don't have any objection to a restaurant putting an auto-grat on my bill, especially when I've already agreed to it as long as they've listed the policy in their menu, and since I'm going to provide the tip anyway. If, for some reason, I find the service unsatisfactory enough that I really have an objection to the auto-grat, I'll just address my concerns with the manager. I've never seen a manager not willing to take off the auto-grat for a table who can express legitimate concerns over the service they received. Unfortunately, if anything, most managers will be too willing to leave their servers out to dry for things that were not actually the server's fault, or to satisfy someone with no articulatable concern who is just angling for free food.

 

[syrenn]

Exactly. Crap service, crap tip. Arbitrarily adding in a tip is bullshit.

Trust me, i know what servers put up with.

And just for the record, it is not out of my scope to leave 50 -100% tip for good service.

I, too, will leave "over the top" tips at times. The thing is that the restaurant doesn't know you from anyone else. Despite however well you may take care of your server, a company cannot adopt policies that are based on what you alone do or don't do. That's just not reasonable. That's why I don't have any objection to a restaurant putting an auto-grat on my bill, especially when I've already agreed to it as long as they've listed the policy in their menu, and since I'm going to provide the tip anyway. If, for some reason, I find the service unsatisfactory enough that I really have an objection to the auto-grat, I'll just address my concerns with the manager. I've never seen a manager not willing to take off the auto-grat for a table who can express legitimate concerns over the service they received. Unfortunately, if anything, most managers will be too willing to leave their servers out to dry for things that were not actually the server's fault, or to satisfy someone with no articulatable concern who is just angling for free food.

I also see a lot of abuse in the auto tip system. For us Americans who are used to tipping and don't bother really looking at a break down on a bill.

Servers get double tips.

They get the auto tip and then the costumer tips on top of that.

Sorry, in my opinion auto tipping added into a bill is not a tip.

 

[gekaap]

I also see a lot of abuse in the auto tip system. For us Americans who are used to tipping and don't bother really looking at a break down on a bill.

Servers get double tips.

They get the auto tip and then the costumer tips on top of that.

Sorry, in my opinion auto tipping added into a bill is not a tip.

That comes down to personal responsibility, doesn't it? When I get my tab, I always look to double check that the charges are accurate. Also, if I'm in a large party, I take the responsibility to take note of whether the menu mentions anything about auto-grats. And if I'm in a party that, according to the menu, could receive an auto-grat on my tab, then I make sure to take note of whether it is there. If you just throw out the money without being diligent to check what you're paying for, then that is on you.

I have to agree, there are plenty of servers who will try to be sneaky about it, not mention it, and hope that you'll tip them big in top. I've seen it happen plenty of times. I also know that this has been against company policy for EVERY restaurant that I've ever worked at, or have ever known about. As a rule, I always took the time to inform my table if I put an auto-grat on there, explained that it was because of the party's size, and I found that I often would still receive an additional tip anyway. I'm sure that people respected my honesty, and that it at times figured into their decision to leave an additional tip. But like I said, if this is a concern of yours, you need only address it to the manager. I've seen people get fired easily for not informing their table that an auto-grat was put on the tab.

As for whether it is "truly" a tip or not, I don't think it really matters. Tomato/tomahto, it's the way that they do business; to sell the product at such and such rate, while gratuities provide the bulk of pay for servers. Companies have to ensure that their employees are able to be paid sufficiently, otherwise they will not be able to support the labor demands, and there will be no place for you to go out. The other alternative would be to increase menu prices greatly in order to offset additional payroll expenses.

 

[syrenn]

I also see a lot of abuse in the auto tip system. For us Americans who are used to tipping and don't bother really looking at a break down on a bill.

Servers get double tips.

They get the auto tip and then the costumer tips on top of that.

Sorry, in my opinion auto tipping added into a bill is not a tip.

That comes down to personal responsibility, doesn't it? When I get my tab, I always look to double check that the charges are accurate. Also, if I'm in a large party, I take the responsibility to take note of whether the menu mentions anything about auto-grats. And if I'm in a party that, according to the menu, could receive an auto-grat on my tab, then I make sure to take note of whether it is there. If you just throw out the money without being diligent to check what you're paying for, then that is on you.

I have to agree, there are plenty of servers who will try to be sneaky about it, not mention it, and hope that you'll tip them big in top. I've seen it happen plenty of times. I also know that this has been against company policy for EVERY restaurant that I've ever worked at, or have ever known about. As a rule, I always took the time to inform my table if I put an auto-grat on there, explained that it was because of the party's size, and I found that I often would still receive an additional tip anyway. I'm sure that people respected my honesty, and that it at times figured into their decision to leave an additional tip. But like I said, if this is a concern of yours, you need only address it to the manager. I've seen people get fired easily for not informing their table that an auto-grat was put on the tab.

As for whether it is "truly" a tip or not, I don't think it really matters. Tomato/tomahto, it's the way that they do business; to sell the product at such and such rate, while gratuities provide the bulk of pay for servers. Companies have to ensure that their employees are able to be paid sufficiently, otherwise they will not be able to support the labor demands, and there will be no place for you to go out. The other alternative would be to increase menu prices greatly in order to offset additional payroll expenses.

If the choice is between auto tipping and higher prices. I would take the higher prices.

As an owner if i have the choice between letting the wait staff keep tips as it stands now or receive minimum wage...and the shop keeps the tips. I am for giving the servers minimum wage and the shop keeping the tips.

Wait staff makes out like bandits. And all they do is whine.

 

[gekaap]

If the choice is between auto tipping and higher prices. I would take the higher prices.

As an owner if i have the choice between letting the wait staff keep tips as it stands now or receive minimum wage...and the shop keeps the tips. I am for giving the servers minimum wage and the shop keeping the tips.

Wait staff makes out like bandits. And all they do is whine.

Wait staff do not "make out like bandits." This misconception that servers make such phenomenal money is just silly. Sure, on a good Sat night you might come away with $200 for the night, but then you have your Monday nights where you come away with $40. Or a Monday lunch when you come away with $15.

If a restaurant were to pay its servers minimum wage, and retain all tips, it would not be able to maintain a staff. I can get paid better than that at McDonalds, and put up with less stress at that. The days of career servers have long been waning, in favor of perky college kids with pretty faces. But either way, minimum wage has never been enough to provide a sustainable earning, and staff will not stay in what the Wall Street Journal has labeled as the most stressful job in the country for minimum wage. It's just not realistic business.

 

[manifold]

Why do so many of you hate the free market?

If a restaurant wants to add a service charge to the bill that's their choice to make.

Your choice is whether to give them your business, not tell them how they're allowed to run theirs.

 

[Intense]

It is comon in NYC to impose Minimum Tipping, usually 15%, especially with Larger Groups, like 8 or more. It in Restaurants that do this, it is put on the Bill. Learn how to leave a decent tip people!

 

[chanel]

We have a lot of French Canadian tourists down here who are notoriously bad tippers. I don't think it's ignorance of our system: I just think they are cheap. I can't see this happening here though. The visitors might get insulted.

 

[Intense]

I really have a hard time with poor tippers. What comes around, goes around. I tip well, and get good service. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Angelhair]

I would opt NOT to eat at those eateries. Problem solved. To me a tip means good service - bad service = NO TIP!

 

[Anachronism]

I would opt NOT to eat at those eateries. Problem solved. To me a tip means good service - bad service = NO TIP!

Whereas to me, speaking a language other than English while in America should mean NO SERVICE.

 

[Immanuel]

Actually, I do understand all of that. One of my first jobs was as a busboy. My tips came from the wait staff.

However, auto-gratuity is not gratuity. It is an additional charge. I have never not tipped anyone. I do not recall ever having not tipped the wait staff even when I have felt that they really did not provide the service that I expected. The point is that tipping is at the discretion of the customer not the restaurant or the staff. If a customer thinks the wait staff did a poor job (and sometimes they do) they should not be forced to give a gratuity.

I am sorry if there are inconsiderate individuals out there that do not tip appropriately, but as far as I am concerned the moment you make me "tip", it is no longer a gratuity, but simply a fee the restaurant is adding on to my bill because they do not feel that their staff is of a quality that is deserving of gratuities.

Immie

I agree, there are times when a server will drop the ball, and if that happens then by all means may the tip reflect that. But if a restaurant displays in their menu that they will auto-grat a table, then staying and ordering means that you accept that stipulation of the auto-grat. Of course, not all instances will actually result in an auto-grat. Some servers don't like to auto-grat, and some add the auto-grat only under certain circumstances. But if you end up with an auto-grat I see it as being a simple matter of tipping what you already would tip. If there was an issue with the service, then you should take the time to bring up the situation to the manager so that your concerns can be addressed.

As a server, I often had discussions with co-workers about when/why we would or would not auto-grat, and how we ourselves responded to being auto-gratted if we went out. My position has always been that if I'm going to leave the tip already, it doesn't make a difference to me that they add the auto-grat. If the service leaves me unwanting to pay that tip, then I'll address my displeasure with the manager. And if I really have that much of a problem with it, then I don't have to go out to that restaurant. But I can't object to a company trying to make reasonable efforts to take care of their employees and protect them from being at the mercy of people who are douche bags. And I don't mind the fact that the company does not know me from Adam.

I can agree with your statement about if "you stay and order". I believe when I made my statement that I said that I would leave immediately. I would not make a scene, but I would inform the management that I was not staying because of their policy.

I simply think it is rude and unethical of them to assume that I want to tip poor service. Then again, as I said, I always tip.

Immie