Respect vs. Rights

[Semper Fi]

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 1st Amendment apply to the government? I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, as long as I respect the rules of the property owner of whose property I am on. While the government can't make him stand, you have every right to state your opinion to him. Do it out of respect for this great Nation, he has done nothing to EARN your respect and everything to lose it. "

You are right that he has the right to talk to his friend. Your tone changed (where I bolded the letters) to that of a nationalist. Your underlying tone is teach him a lesson he does not deserve respect.

Look, give it up. Everyone here either agrees or disagrees. You cannot take back what you said and you cannot change the nature of which you said it.

And you are trying to backtrack. I think you felt vindicated when you wrote it and feel differently now that I have proven you wrong.

Just leave it alone and I will too.

No, I don't think he was telling me to take the kid out back and knock his teeth out or anything, but to call him on it and challenge his positions, kinda like we're doing here. Marine never mentioned violence, nor that it was my duty to America to do so.

So why don't YOU give it up and stop trying to debate words that were never spoken?

My point of the post was that you have the right to be dissentful and all, but some things go beyond the point being made and become disrespectful. In my opinion, guided by my principles and personal code of conduct, respect should always be given (unless they have proven to be unworthy of respect, then all is fair game...to a degree, though) and class should be held in high regard. I'm not seeing that from very many people.

Oh, and Marine, myself and another classmate (this classmate being a true-to-form Moderate) did talk to him last year. He said little more than, "IT'S MY RIGHT NOT TO STAND UP!!"...it actually reminded me of, how in a touch-football game, there's always the guy that isn't content with a simple push with the hands so insists on form-tackling everyone; since the tone of the conversation was relaxed and friendly. Well, for a little while.

 

[Taomon]

Glad you can tell my tone from reading something. I'm not backtracking from shit. You are making some grand assumptions and you don't like having to prove what you say. Especially since you can't. You accused me of being a Nationalist. You called me violent and racist. You have not been able to prove any of it except to say my tone is... Now I know why your kid won't stand for the pledge. She probably assumes she is pleasing her folks. At least that's the underlying tone from your statements.

I never said you were a racist, but whatever. I am not going to explain it again. You either cannot understand or refuse to (the first sign of fanaticism).

 

[Taomon]

No, I don't think he was telling me to take the kid out back and knock his teeth out or anything, but to call him on it and challenge his positions, kinda like we're doing here. Marine never mentioned violence, nor that it was my duty to America to do so.

So why don't YOU give it up and stop trying to debate words that were never spoken?

My point of the post was that you have the right to be dissentful and all, but some things go beyond the point being made and become disrespectful. In my opinion, guided by my principles and personal code of conduct, respect should always be given (unless they have proven to be unworthy of respect, then all is fair game...to a degree, though) and class should be held in high regard. I'm not seeing that from very many people.

Oh, and Marine, myself and another classmate (this classmate being a true-to-form Moderate) did talk to him last year. He said little more than, "IT'S MY RIGHT NOT TO STAND UP!!"...it actually reminded me of, how in a touch-football game, there's always the guy that isn't content with a simple push with the hands so insists on form-tackling everyone; since the tone of the conversation was relaxed and friendly. Well, for a little while.

I told him to leave it alone and I would. I'll be the one to leave it alone then. I just will not respond on that subject to Marine on this thread anymore. But I do calls em as I sees em. To me, his post sounded nationalistic, but I have stated that over and over.

But to respond to what you said, I am glad that you were able to discuss this in a friendly manner with your classmate. But is it fair to hold everyone to your personal standard of what is respectful and what is not? Is that not bordering on the types of pressure that I spoke of earlier on in this thread?

Regardless, you did not think of Marine's response as a call to arms and that is a good thing. You and he disagree with my contentions, and that is okay with me too.

Regarding my daughter, I would hope that I would never come off as pressuring any of my kids to be rebellious in order to impress me. My wife feels the same as you do in regards to the Pledge od Allegiance and we all discussed it openly and lovingly (since we are a family, my wife & I do not disrespect each other or try to undermine the other). As I said, one daughter chooses not to stand and the other chooses to stand. And we are okay with both.

The good news is that no one in my family want to burn the flag.

 

[Semper Fi]

Yes, that is good that your flags aren't burned. I'm glad to hear that.

I'm not right to pressure people into adhering to my principles, nor do I try to. But I am right to use those principles in my judgment of other people. That is the second purpose of principles, judgment that is, behind being a guideline to base actions and direction.

I might not have made myself clear. It wasn't discussed in a friendly manner. Me and my other friend (the before-stated Moderate) tried to calmly talk about it, but he threw up his defenses like the Spartans at Thermopolae. This is why we get along if we don't discuss politics.

 

[Gunny]

There is nothing wrong with Semper Fi talking to this kid about his side of the issue at all. In fact, I am betting money that Semper Fi would be ethical and logical while doing so.

What I object to is someone saying that Semper Fi must do that for his country. That smacks of nationalist undertones that border on extremism and can lead to violence.

And just WHO has said he "must"?

 

[Taomon]

Yes, that is good that your flags aren't burned. I'm glad to hear that.

I'm not right to pressure people into adhering to my principles, nor do I try to. But I am right to use those principles in my judgment of other people. That is the second purpose of principles, judgment that is, behind being a guideline to base actions and direction.

I might not have made myself clear. It wasn't discussed in a friendly manner. Me and my other friend (the before-stated Moderate) tried to calmly talk about it, but he threw up his defenses like the Spartans at Thermopolae. This is why we get along if we don't discuss politics.

Sorry for assuming. Perhaps he had some bad experiences. As you can tell, I lean to the left. To say that my views are constantly under attack is an understatement.

But I try not to let my emotions get the best of me. I am only successful when I am approached in a respectful way. I don't do well with finger jabs and taunts.

But at least you tried to discuss it humanely. I don't see anything wrong with approaching someone of differing political views.

I campaigned for Kerry in 2004. One of the door-to-door campaigns we did was in New Hampshire. I was told that if someone says they are voting for Bush, just walk away. But I did not understand why anyone would vote for Bush. So I asked a few people. Politely, respectfully and calmly. Mostly they returned in kind and gave me their views. it was insightful.

 

[Taomon]

And just WHO has said he "must"?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 1st Amendment apply to the government? I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, as long as I respect the rules of the property owner of whose property I am on. While the government can't make him stand, you have every right to state your opinion to him. Do it out of respect for this great Nation, he has done nothing to EARN your respect and everything to lose it.

That is on the first page.

 

[82Marine89]

That is on the first page.

Looks to me like I said he had every right to express his opinion and the went on to explain why I thought so. No where in that statement did I give him a directive to attack that kid.

 

[Taomon]

Looks to me like I said he had every right to express his opinion and the went on to explain why I thought so. No where in that statement did I give him a directive to attack that kid.

Good night 82Marine89. Have a nice Sunday as well.

 

[pegwinn]

Um, this type of extremist view is what underlies violence, brutality and phenomena like racism

Since you don't wish to listen to polite discussion: Bullshit.

He is telling Semper Fi to address this kid for the respect of the nation. As if the nation is somehow harmed by this kid not standing during the pledge. His statement has a nationalist point of view, which can be dangerous.

Playing with fire is never a good idea. And this statement is just that. He is telling Semper Fi that it is his duty to address this.

Maybe you don't see harm in that, perhaps because you agree. But we do not know if Semper Fi will take this as a call to arms. He seems rational so I don't this secenario, but if the kid challenges Semper Fi, we do not know if he will feel pressured to defend his country by fighting this kid or worse.

Nationalism is a secular fundamentalism.

Once again, Bullshit.

Fine he has the right to say it and I have the right to point out that it is an incite for retaliation. Which is what I was implying in my posts.

Are we done with this one yet?

No we are not, Bullshit.

My take:

If you want to stand, then stand. If you don’t want to stand, then don’t stand. People should not be obligated to stand. Still, those that don’t stand might get criticized and frowned upon. The choice is yours. .

Many words to say: I am not taking sides.

In your original post to semper Fi your tone had an underlying message of "Get the freak and teach him a lesson"

And again, with feeling; Bullshit.

Analyze that.

 

[Taomon]

Since you don't wish to listen to polite discussion: Bullshit.



Once again, Bullshit.



No we are not, Bullshit.



Many words to say: I am not taking sides.



And again, with feeling; Bullshit.

Analyze that.

You are a sad little man

 

[pegwinn]

You are a sad little man

Sad? Ha! I am far from sad. I have health, wealth (well enough for me), home, family, and history. I am very happy. And, I don't get wrapped up in jargon. Sometimes a pig is just a pig.

Little? Only my wife can answer that. For you to speculate indicates an unhealthy interest in me.

 

[Taomon]

Sad? Ha! I am far from sad. I have health, wealth (well enough for me), home, family, and history. I am very happy. And, I don't get wrapped up in jargon. Sometimes a pig is just a pig.

Little? Only my wife can answer that. For you to speculate indicates an unhealthy interest in me.

Yeah okay. Good night pegwinn.

 

[pegwinn]

Yeah okay. Good night pegwinn.

C'ya