Request by Baruch and Gramps :)

[MeBelle]

What would really make schools better is if teachers did not have to teach to the test and were able to get back to the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic.
If children were able to play on the playground like they used to, you know, like tag, dodge ball, anything that didn't 'hurt' the children.
If school districts made it easier for a poor teacher to move along, for the sake of the children of course. Having a teacher who teaches poorly, intimidates children or is just plain stupid does not help our children receive proper education.
Also, if school districts were allowed to do the right thing by keeping good/great teachers rather than being bound by the last in first out method when it comes to potential layoffs.
Schools also need to have the power to ditch the touchy feely 'discipline' and use a real method of discipline such as detention and expulsion, if needed, without having to be afraid of any parental reprisal or possible long drawn out appeals of such disciplines.
Parents need to feel that they really count in their child's education when they volunteer in the classroom, or attempt to be active in the Parent Teacher Association. Too many parents just 'give up' when their attempts to be active are ignored, which happens way too frequently.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There are very few ‘poor’ teachers.

What you have are poor school administrations, both with regard to the individual schools and the districts overall.

School systems have become so hyper-politicized that they’ve lost the ability – or will – to provide teachers the support they need. Some of this isn’t entirely the fault of school systems, the never-ending battle to keep budges from being cut, having an entire community’s social problems dumped on schools, and the unrealistic demands made on schools depleted of resources make it nearly impossible for schools to focus on the most important thing: educating young people.

If one wants schools to do a better job then get out of the way and let them do their jobs – give them the funding and resources needed to be successful, you find out those ‘poor’ teachers are actually pretty good after all.

 

[Unkotare]

What would really make schools better is if teachers did not have to teach to the test and were able to get back to the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic. .

That's a cop-out and an excuse for failure.

 

[Unkotare]

There are very few ‘poor’ teachers. .

Bullshit.

 

[Peach]

There are very few ‘poor’ teachers.

What you have are poor school administrations, both with regard to the individual schools and the districts overall.

School systems have become so hyper-politicized that they’ve lost the ability – or will – to provide teachers the support they need. Some of this isn’t entirely the fault of school systems, the never-ending battle to keep budges from being cut, having an entire community’s social problems dumped on schools, and the unrealistic demands made on schools depleted of resources make it nearly impossible for schools to focus on the most important thing: educating young people.

If one wants schools to do a better job then get out of the way and let them do their jobs – give them the funding and resources needed to be successful, you find out those ‘poor’ teachers are actually pretty good after all.

In Florida the teachers ARE poor, as in WITHOUT ENOUGH MONEY. Revenue sharing has been cut out. A half built school sits in my county, the schools are without FUNDS for basic supplies. Jeb! started it & Ricky "the balded headed rat" Scott continues the trend. We hold bake sales & car washes so kids can go on field trips.

 

[alan1]

What would really make schools better is if teachers did not have to teach to the test and were able to get back to the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic.
If children were able to play on the playground like they used to, you know, like tag, dodge ball, anything that didn't 'hurt' the children. 25
If school districts made it easier for a poor teacher to move along, for the sake of the children of course. Having a teacher who teaches poorly, intimidates children or is just plain stupid does not help our children receive proper education.
Also, if school districts were allowed to do the right thing by keeping good/great teachers rather than being bound by the last in first out method when it comes to potential layoffs.
Schools also need to have the power to ditch the touchy feely 'discipline' and use a real method of discipline such as detention and expulsion, if needed, without having to be afraid of any parental reprisal or possible long drawn out appeals of such disciplines.
Parents need to feel that they really count in their child's education when they volunteer in the classroom, or attempt to be active in the Parent Teacher Association. Too many parents just 'give up' when their attempts to be active are ignored, which happens way too frequently.

I would also add that I think the federal government needs to be removed from the education equation.
The needs of an inner city youth in New York city are much different than the needs of a Bakersfield CA farm kid.
Keep education local. Part of the reason parents get frustrated is because they can't change federal mandates, but they could sway local school boards.

 

[MeBelle]

There are very few ‘poor’ teachers.

What you have are poor school administrations, both with regard to the individual schools and the districts overall.

School systems have become so hyper-politicized that they’ve lost the ability – or will – to provide teachers the support they need. Some of this isn’t entirely the fault of school systems, the never-ending battle to keep budges from being cut, having an entire community’s social problems dumped on schools, and the unrealistic demands made on schools depleted of resources make it nearly impossible for schools to focus on the most important thing: educating young people.

If one wants schools to do a better job then get out of the way and let them do their jobs – give them the funding and resources needed to be successful, you find out those ‘poor’ teachers are actually pretty good after all.

If it were only that simple.

The majority of the budget in the state I live in goes to...are you ready...funding pensions.
A school board, school district or school admin with it's hands tied behind it's back will result in zero change.

I work intimately with in my local school district and have personal knowledge of the crap that goes on. The school district is a high end one; none of the "having an entire community’s social problems dumped on schools." applies here.

You are right, there are no 'poor' teachers...there are some HORRIBLE teachers who shouldn't be in the profession.

And NO I will not move out of the way when I witness the children getting taught to the test are failing on their report cards, with NO support from the school or district. NO, I will not give them more 'resources' (more money) when they have BLOWN the resources already given them. I personally pay an additional $6k per year in school bonds alone, above prop tax etc to make sure my child gets a good education.

Remember that school admins were teachers at one time...can we say Peter Principle?

 

[blimpo]

If you're not ready for the 4th grade you stay in the 3rd.
Once kids are all on grade level we can use tests in evaluations of teachers.
Having kids in the 8th grade that function on a 4th grade level tilts the results against the teacher no matter what he/she does.

 

[MeBelle]

If you're not ready for the 4th grade you stay in the 3rd.
Once kids are all on grade level we can use tests in evaluations of teachers.
Having kids in the 8th grade that function on a 4th grade level tilts the results against the teacher no matter what he/she does.

That may be how it works where you're at, it's not how it works here.
The teachers here are not eval'ed by the State testing reqs, the schools are.
The tests don't take into account an individual score. If a school is, say, getting a 'C' as an overall grade, they are good to go.
There are people graduating from high school who must take remedial classes in order to get into college because they didn't learn what they should have learned in K-12.

 

[editec]

The FACTORY MODEL of education that we have now we can and ought to change.

Computer technology and the internet have changed the potential of education.

We spend far too much money on education (especially in the grades 7-12) that we can spend much more efficiently.

We now have the technology and the resources to create individualized ED lessons for each student.

The EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM that puts students into an AGE GHETTO needs a SERIOUS rethink.

I suspect that the educational model by 2100 will be completely different than it is today.

Among other things will be FEWER teachers per pupil and the cost perstudent will be much lower than it currently is, too

Much of what teachers do now, will be done by AI education programs.

Still another example of technology replacing human labor,folks.

The question is how will we share the new wealth that tecnology will be giving us?

THAT changing of the social contract (rather than increasing efficiencies) is the REAL task of THIS century.

 

[alan1]

The FACTORY MODEL of education that we have now we can and ought to change.

Computer technology and the internet have changed the potential of education.

We spend far too much money on education (especially in the grades 7-12) that we can spend much more efficiently.

We now have the technology and the resources to create individualized ED lessons for each student.

The EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM that puts students into an AGE GHETTO needs a SERIOUS rethink.

I suspect that the educational model by 2100 will be completely different than it is today.

Among other things will be FEWER teachers per pupil and the cost perstudent will be much lower than it currently is, too

Much of what teachers do now, will be done by AI education programs.

Still another example of technology replacing human labor,folks.

The question is how will we share the new wealth that tecnology will be giving us?

THAT changing of the social contract (rather than increasing efficiencies) is the REAL task of THIS century.

The model needs to change.
I find it interesting that you mention AI and fewer teacher. In the area where I live they are constantly trying to say that there needs to be fewer students per teacher. I think that is part of the model that needs to change. Many private schools actually have a higher student per teacher ratio than the local public schools and yet they still produce better results at a cheaper cost per pupil than the public school system. I'm not an expert on private vs public schools, but I'll bet they manage to do that by eliminating overhead such as school cafeterias, way less bureaucracy/administration. They also have engaged and parents and higher standards. I don't think you can legislate active parent involvement, so that's kind of tricky to improve.

 

[Peach]

The FACTORY MODEL of education that we have now we can and ought to change.

Computer technology and the internet have changed the potential of education.

We spend far too much money on education (especially in the grades 7-12) that we can spend much more efficiently.

We now have the technology and the resources to create individualized ED lessons for each student.

The EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM that puts students into an AGE GHETTO needs a SERIOUS rethink.

I suspect that the educational model by 2100 will be completely different than it is today.

Among other things will be FEWER teachers per pupil and the cost perstudent will be much lower than it currently is, too

Much of what teachers do now, will be done by AI education programs.

Still another example of technology replacing human labor,folks.

The question is how will we share the new wealth that tecnology will be giving us?

THAT changing of the social contract (rather than increasing efficiencies) is the REAL task of THIS century.

The model needs to change.
I find it interesting that you mention AI and fewer teacher. In the area where I live they are constantly trying to say that there needs to be fewer students per teacher. I think that is part of the model that needs to change. Many private schools actually have a higher student per teacher ratio than the local public schools and yet they still produce better results at a cheaper cost per pupil than the public school system. I'm not an expert on private vs public schools, but I'll bet they manage to do that by eliminating overhead such as school cafeterias, way less bureaucracy/administration. They also have engaged and parents and higher standards. I don't think you can legislate active parent involvement, so that's kind of tricky to improve.

Internet classes are, by and large, much less effective than classrooms. Reading comprehension is LOWER using screens, interaction stilted. More teachers, higher pay, and administration that isn't trying so hard to please the parents of rotten kids. Less emphasis on sports in some areas would be helpful.

 

[alan1]

The FACTORY MODEL of education that we have now we can and ought to change.

Computer technology and the internet have changed the potential of education.

We spend far too much money on education (especially in the grades 7-12) that we can spend much more efficiently.

We now have the technology and the resources to create individualized ED lessons for each student.

The EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM that puts students into an AGE GHETTO needs a SERIOUS rethink.

I suspect that the educational model by 2100 will be completely different than it is today.

Among other things will be FEWER teachers per pupil and the cost perstudent will be much lower than it currently is, too

Much of what teachers do now, will be done by AI education programs.

Still another example of technology replacing human labor,folks.

The question is how will we share the new wealth that tecnology will be giving us?

THAT changing of the social contract (rather than increasing efficiencies) is the REAL task of THIS century.

The model needs to change.
I find it interesting that you mention AI and fewer teacher. In the area where I live they are constantly trying to say that there needs to be fewer students per teacher. I think that is part of the model that needs to change. Many private schools actually have a higher student per teacher ratio than the local public schools and yet they still produce better results at a cheaper cost per pupil than the public school system. I'm not an expert on private vs public schools, but I'll bet they manage to do that by eliminating overhead such as school cafeterias, way less bureaucracy/administration. They also have engaged and parents and higher standards. I don't think you can legislate active parent involvement, so that's kind of tricky to improve.

Internet classes are, by and large, much less effective than classrooms. Reading comprehension is LOWER using screens, interaction stilted. More teachers, higher pay, and administration that isn't trying so hard to please the parents of rotten kids. Less emphasis on sports in some areas would be helpful.

I don't know enough about comprehension as it relates to reading screens for the average person, so I can't argue that point. Reading seems to work for me though, but that is merely anecdotal for me.

More teachers and higher pay has been the school board mantra for well over 30 years, and been put into practice. Somehow, I think even you agree that public education is getting worse (which is why you posted in this thread). You know the saying though, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

I agree, I think there is too much emphasis on sports. Emphasis that goes way beyond teaching physical education, sportsmanship and teamwork. But then, I'm not a sports fan.

 

[Unkotare]

More teachers, higher pay.

Yeah, 'cause throwing money at it has proven so effective in the past.

 

[Unkotare]

I agree, I think there is too much emphasis on sports. .

Yeah, 'cause kids today aren't weak and obese enough.

 

[rdean]

I think it's strange the least educated Americans would complain about education. Worse, they want to teach such things as "magical creation" and "mystical design" as real science.

 

[blimpo]

If you're not ready for the 4th grade you stay in the 3rd.
Once kids are all on grade level we can use tests in evaluations of teachers.
Having kids in the 8th grade that function on a 4th grade level tilts the results against the teacher no matter what he/she does.

That may be how it works where you're at, it's not how it works here.
The teachers here are not eval'ed by the State testing reqs, the schools are.
The tests don't take into account an individual score. If a school is, say, getting a 'C' as an overall grade, they are good to go.
There are people graduating from high school who must take remedial classes in order to get into college because they didn't learn what they should have learned in K-12.

That is not how it is where I am.

It's how it should be if over half of a teacher's evaluation is based on test scores (which is how it is where I am).