Republicans..The real allies of African Americans

[Ras Al Ghul]

What is the purpose of this thread?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jroc is trying to distort history. We call it jrockian revisionism.

 

[JBeukema]

Basically, the OP is Rdeaning

 

[JakeStarkey]

From the get go jroc is revising history. The GOP was formed to not end slavery but ensure that slavery did not impair economic opportunity for the white man. Jroc may be making the classic error of mistaking anti-slavery opposition for abolition: two different beasts.

 

[Jroc]

From the get go jroc is revising history. The GOP was formed to not end slavery but ensure that slavery did not impair economic opportunity for the white man. Jroc may be making the classic error of mistaking anti-slavery opposition for abolition: two different beasts.

Republican Party National Platform, 1860

 

[rdean]

"Driving Miss Nancy" Rush Limbaugh On Dems' Racism (Videos) - Congressman Steny Hoyer - Zimbio

?Obama Bucks?: Caricatures of Barack Obama Sociological Images

It is a “joke” included in the “October newsletter by the Chaffey Community Republican Women, Federated” (I read more about it here; the group is from San Bernardino, CA), in which they claim that if Obama wins, his face will be on food stamps, not dollar bills. From a story in The Press-Enterprise:

Fedele [the group's president] said she got the illustration in a number of chain e-mails and decided to reprint it for her members in the Trumpeter newsletter because she was offended that Obama would draw attention to his own race. She declined to say who sent her the e-mails with the illustration. She said she doesn’t think in racist terms, pointing out she once supported Republican Alan Keyes, an African-American who previously ran for president. “I didn’t see it the way that it’s being taken. I never connected,” she said. “It was just food to me. It didn’t mean anything else.”

This is how the right welcomes blacks. It's also why the Republican Party is 90% white.

 

[Jroc]

If your party stopped targeting black voters to keep them from voting then you might have a better chance at convincing them you think they are important

If you're party stoppped pushing the killing of Black babies, We'd have plenty more African Americans to vote

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America. Are we being targeted? Isn't that genocide? We are the only minority in America that is on the decline in population. If the current trend continues, by 2038 the black vote will be insignificant. Did you know that the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Is her vision being fulfilled today?

BlackGenocide.org | Abortion and the Black Community

1) learn what genocide is

2)

What a joke you think we should abort babies because of the risk that some day they'd turn out to be criminals?...That’s the sign of a sick mind. My position is that there is no legal right to an abortion in the Constitution. States should be able to pass their own laws in regards to abortion, The federal government should not be using tax payer money to fund pro abortion groups like Planned Parenthood who profit off of these abortions.If you've read the entire thread you'd know the racist history of Planned Parenthood its founding and the fact that African Americans have four times the abortion of whites Margaret Sanger would be proud. It's a sad thing to watch how African American politicians ignore this fact simply because Planned Parenthood is an ally of the Democrat party.

 

[Jroc]

:Interesting that you used quotes from Lincoln as example while I used actual political policies (which you ignored BTW). Actions speak louder than words. I think your problem here is that you're attempting to compare conservative ideology today (which is not a constant) with political ideology of the 1860s, it's apples to oranges. It's apparent you suffer from an overly simplified, 2-dimensional, linear view of politics.

Conservative ideology is always constant. What is that constant? Individual liberty.. the whole premise of the founding. Individual liberty is the opposite of slavery. The liberal ideology is big government, which leads to tyrannical government, which leads to slavery.


The Great Frederick Douglass.. Former Slave, Abolitionist, Conservative (Constitutionalist) Republican

"base my sense of the certain overthrow of slavery, in part, upon the nature of the American Government, the Constitution, the tendencies of the age, and the character of the American people…. I know of no soil better adapted to the growth of reform than American soil. I know of no country where the conditions for affecting great changes in the settled order of things, for the development of right ideas of liberty and humanity, are more favorable than here in these United States…. The Constitution, as well as the Declaration of Independence, and the sentiments of the founders of the Republic, give us a plat-form broad enough, and strong enough, to support the most comprehensive plans for the freedom and elevation of all the people of this country, without regard to color, class, or clime"

Federick Douglass

A new condition has brought new duties. A character which might pass without censure as a slave cannot so pass as a freeman. We must not beg men to do for us what we ought to do for ourselves. The prostrate form, the uncovered head, the cringing attitude, the bated breath, the suppliant, outstretched hand of beggary does not become an American freeman, and does not become us as a class, and we will not consent to be any longer represented in that position. No people can make desirable progress or have permanent welfare outside of their own independent and earnest efforts…. We utterly repudiate all invidious distinctions, whether in our favor or against us, and ask only for a fair field and no favor

Frederick Douglass

 

[JBeukema]

If you're party stoppped pushing the killing of Black babies, We'd have plenty more African Americans to vote

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America. Are we being targeted? Isn't that genocide? We are the only minority in America that is on the decline in population. If the current trend continues, by 2038 the black vote will be insignificant. Did you know that the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Is her vision being fulfilled today?

BlackGenocide.org | Abortion and the Black Community

1) learn what genocide is

2)

What a joke you think we should abort babies because of the risk that some day they'd turn out to be criminals?...

Do cite

My position is that there is no legal right to an abortion in the Constitution.

Scotus disagrees. Then, of course, there's the Ninth Amendment.

States should be able to pass their own laws in regards to abortion

We tried that. See: Roe v. Wade

, The federal government should not be using tax payer money to fund pro abortion groups like Planned Parenthood who profit off of these abortions

As opposed to profiting off killing brown people around the world?

.If you've read the entire thread you'd know the racist history of Planned Parenthood its founding

I know about it. It's an ad home that does nothing to demonstrate why abortions should be criminalized.

and the fact that African Americans have four times the abortion of whites

And? What's your point?

 

[JBeukema]

There's o such thing as 'conservative ideology'. Conservatism is no ideology; it is, by definition, nothing more or less than a desire to preserve the status quo or return to the status quo ante.

Slaveholders were, by definition, the conservatives.

So, too, the rioting police at the DNC .


So, too, the Tories. And the KKK.

 

[Rousseau]

:Interesting that you used quotes from Lincoln as example while I used actual political policies (which you ignored BTW). Actions speak louder than words. I think your problem here is that you're attempting to compare conservative ideology today (which is not a constant) with political ideology of the 1860s, it's apples to oranges. It's apparent you suffer from an overly simplified, 2-dimensional, linear view of politics.

Conservative ideology is always constant. What is that constant? Individual liberty.. the whole premise of the founding. Individual liberty is the opposite of slavery. The liberal ideology is big government, which leads to tyrannical government, which leads to slavery.

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about do you? You are completely unable to discuss political policies, it's like a fucking handicap. I mentioned examples of political policies of the first Republicans, which you completely ignored. I gave you an in depth example of a modern conservative ideology in hopes of broadening your two-dimensional, linear view of politics. All of which you ignored, did you read a word of my posts?

Let me break this down...

Conservative ideology is always constant.

Nope, go back to square one, you need to retake American Government and U.S. History. This is an idiotic statement that I would expect from an ignorant high school student, not someone who claims to be conservative or interested the least bit in politics. You fail American politics.

There is paleoconservatism, social conservatism, neoconservatism, fiscal conservatism.... and... I know this next one is going to confuse the shit out of you given your very basic, childlike view of politics... classical liberalism.

"Modern American conservatism was largely born out of alliance between classical liberals and social conservatives in the late 19th and early 20th centuries."

Conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Prior to the formation of the conservative coalition, which helped realign the Democratic and Republican party ideologies in the mid-1960s, the Republican party historically advocated classical liberalism and progressivism."

Republican Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do I need to educate you further? I will not keep replying if you continue to completely ignore my posts correcting you. If you fail to actually read my posts again, then I'm sorry, I can't help you.

What is that constant? Individual liberty.. the whole premise of the founding. Individual liberty is the opposite of slavery. The liberal ideology is big government, which leads to tyrannical government, which leads to slavery.

Now this is interesting... you've basically taken about a dozen completely different political ideologies from different time periods, lumped them into one and redefined them with a totally new, overly simplified definition that you came up with off the top of your head. The last sentence was just plain idiotic. I'm beginning to wonder why you're even on this message board when it's obvious you don't know anything about the very political ideology you think you identify with.

The Great Frederick Douglass.. Former Slave, Abolitionist, Conservative (Constitutionalist) Republican

You're making me cringe here... mostly because it's obvious you don't understand what you're saying, and I'm almost embarrassed for you. Frederick Douglass has never, EVER, been referred to as a Conservative... or a Constitutionalist... YOU just gave him that label. And I think it's not because you mean to mislabel him, but because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Every political party and movement in the 1860s claimed to uphold the Constitution... it was still less than a century old and held the most merit in American politics at the time.

I don't blame you for not understanding... but please if you want to comment on a subject at least do research before you go making up random shit and throwing out claims straight from the Jroc fantasy factory. And read my entire fucking posts before you attempt reply again, it's getting annoying.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't see how giving people the opportunity to own a piece of land if they settled it, worked it, and made it their own, to which the purpose was to expand the country into unsettled areas would be considered liberal. I think a more liberal view would be to have everyone as a group working the land and then distribute it equally among them no matter how much each individual person contributed to that goal.

Wow. It's obvious you're confusing the Homestead Act with what I mentioned... the "free land" legislation that the first Republicans proposed is legislation where the government could CONFISCATE farm land from a major business and disperse it to smaller independent farmers in the area in order to diffuse a monopoly.

So no, you are entirely wrong and obviously confused about your American history.

Very basic stuff? What does the conservative movement stand for? Smaller government and individual liberties, which is the opposite of slavery. Of course Lincoln had to do a lot of things in order to save the union at the time, but the core premise of conservatism is FREEDOM from a tyrannical government. and thats very basic stuff.

Every view you just stated is almost identical to the Pro-Slavery argument and talking points of the time.

Especially these:
"FREEDOM from a tyrannical government"
"Smaller government and individual liberties"

To them the government was an imposing tyrannical force imposing on their personal "liberty" to do business and keep slaves. Keep in mind, in the South's view at the time, slaves were not viewed as "people" who could have "liberties". The Republicans on the other hand sought to expand government, centralize power and regulate a massive business and trade while taking power from the states and giving it to the federal government. It isn't a huge secret that the first Republicans were progressive abolitionists up against conservatives.

Come on kid, if you're going to attempt to comment on the subject of political policy in the 1860s at least READ about it first.

I saw your name and avatar and hope you understand that Rousseau is wildy considered by socialist and communist as an inspiration for their philosophy. Karl Marx certainly thought so. So as far as the definition of modern day conservative you could say that the name and avar is a fail. Depending on who you talk to. Though the founders certainly read his work, Cicero and Locke were larger influences.

Publius1787 imitates stupidity, making the same silly links from figures of history, such as Rosseau and others, as to only leftists. This is not so, and it is stupid to think it is so.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Frederick Douglass would have slapped Publius1787 silly (metaphorically of course) for suggesting FD was ever a conservative. And P1787 suggest Lincoln was a rubbish conservative of the Tea Party right, he should be schooled with a ruler (metaphorically of course).

P1787 is entitled to his own beliefs and opinions. However, he is not entitled to his own reality and does not get to change historical definitions and facts.

 

[Jroc]

Nope, go back to square one, you need to retake American Government and U.S. History. This is an idiotic statement that I would expect from an ignorant high school student, not someone who claims to be conservative or interested the least bit in politics. You fail American politics.

There is paleoconservatism, social conservatism, neoconservatism, fiscal conservatism.... and... I know this next one is going to confuse the shit out of you given your very basic, childlike view of politics... classical liberalism.

I know what classical liberalism is, which in pretty much the same as my view of conservatism, it sure the hell isn’t in anyway related to today’s liberal views

"Modern American conservatism was largely born out of alliance between classical liberals and social conservatives in the late 19th and early 20th centuries."

Ok…. So what’s the problem? Like I said maybe you should start a thread on the history of conservatism in the United States. My views of conservatism are as I stated, limited government and individual liberties again whats the problem?

"Prior to the formation of the conservative coalition, which helped realign the Democratic and Republican party ideologies in the mid-1960s, the Republican party historically advocated classical liberalism and progressivism."

It would seem to me that classical liberalism and progressivism would be opposites unless these progressive democrats todays “Liberals” implement their views through the constitutional process which is defiantly not what these” liberal” Democrats are doing. Regardless, this thread was intended to show that the Republican Party has always been a traditional ally of African Americans they still are in my view.

quote=Jroc;3221008]
What is that constant? Individual liberty.. the whole premise of the founding. Individual liberty is the opposite of slavery. The liberal ideology is big government, which leads to tyrannical government, which leads to slavery.

The last sentence was just plain idiotic. I'm beginning to wonder why you're even on this message board when it's obvious you don't know anything about the very political ideology you think you identify with.

Ok.. Maybe I should have said today’s “liberal” Democrat ideology. How’s that?

The Great Frederick Douglass.. Former Slave, Abolitionist, Conservative (Constitutionalist) Republican

You're making me cringe here... mostly because it's obvious you don't understand what you're saying, and I'm almost embarrassed for you. Frederick Douglass has never, EVER, been referred to as a Conservative... or a Constitutionalist... YOU just gave him that label. And I think it's not because you mean to mislabel him, but because you have no idea what you are talking about.

So are you saying Frederick Douglass did not believe in the principals of our constitution? And the founding? If you do then you’re clueless. I gave you one of his quotes were am I going wrong here? Educate me.

 

[JBeukema]

wait...


is pubes back, or is this a different idiot?

 

[JBeukema]

For the record 'Liberalism' =/= 'liberalism'

The former is an ideology- or spectrum of related ideologies. The latter is basically an adjective that's more accurately used as a suffix- such as 'fiscal liberalism' or 'social liberalism'. To say one is liberal is not the same as saying one is a Liberal.

It's really not as difficult as some of you make it out to be.

 

[Jroc]

For the record 'Liberalism' =/= 'liberalism'

The former is an ideology- or spectrum of related ideologies. The latter is basically an adjective that's more accurate used as a suffix- such as 'fiscal liberalism' or 'social liberalism'. To say one is liberal is not the same as saying one is a Liberal.

It's really not as difficult as some of you make it out to be.

Thank you for that usefull peice of totally irrelavent information.

 

[JakeStarkey]

From the get go jroc is revising history. The GOP was formed to not end slavery but ensure that slavery did not impair economic opportunity for the white man. Jroc may be making the classic error of mistaking anti-slavery opposition for abolition: two different beasts.

Republican Party National Platform, 1860

You post a document and that ends the discussion?

"The Republican platform specifically pledged not to extend slavery and called for enactment of free-homestead legislation". Now, grasshopper, note the implication and connection. The GOP recognizes that slavery is constitutional but not in extension to the territories. Why? It threatens white economic opportunity.

Once again racist anti-slavery sentiment is not abolitionism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Conservative ideology is always constant. What is that constant? Individual liberty.. the whole premise of the founding. Individual liberty is the opposite of slavery. The liberal ideology is big government, which leads to tyrannical government, which leads to slavery.

Thus, by your twist, Lincoln and Douglass are conservatives? Where do you get the idea our friends on the liberal side do not supporty liberty? You are nothing more than a wierd individual who tries to create his own reality by twisting time honored definitions and history.

Lissen up, wad: Lincoln and Douglass, even more Douglass, were liberals for their time and place. You better go study Thaddeus Stevens and Charles Sumner, Sumner in particular, before you suggest such an unsupportable idea: only conservatives support liberty?

What a moronic and unsupportable assertion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

wait...is pubes back, or is this a different idiot?

Not surprising. Franklin Buchanan had his followers. Aaron Burr had his followers. Both Burr and Buchanan were conservatives of the worst sort.