Republicans History Sweden

Discussion in 'Education' started by midcan5, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    It is curious how history seems to repeat itself. Laissez faire economics driven by republican and conservative partisans has brought the country again to financial and personal disaster. Hoover is alive and well on capital hill. And what do you hear from the republicans again: lower taxes. Are they missing reality or what! Did Bush not do that and did that not contribute to the trouble we are in now. History is a tough subject for some. And the democrats are equally guilty of buying into the idea deregulated markets will bring utopia.

    "The Great Depression, to 1935"

    "But Sweden would recover faster. This was the result of both a liberal monetary policy and public spending. A reduction in taxes for the average wage earner gave him more money to spend. A raised minimum wage increased the ability of low-income people to spend money. The government increased investments in public works. Federal money was pumped into unemployment insurance, medical care and old age pensions. The government willingly created a deficit, believing that it was emergency spending that would be paid back after the recovery. And with recovery being rapid and revenues increasing as a result of the rising economy, the deficits were quickly overcome.

    Government participation in the economic life of Sweden had increased. The government supported farm prices and protective tariffs for farm products, and giving aid to the unemployed in farming areas helped to slow migration from the countryside into the cities. The Social Democrats gave labor the right to strike, but Sweden had a board that settled worker-management grievances, a board in which labor and management had confidence. And peace between labor and management benefited the economy.

    Sweden's industrialists were disgruntled over higher taxes on their personal incomes, but they did not feel threatened to the extent that they withdrew from participating in the economic recovery. Manufacturing was to remain over 90 percent in the hands of capitalists, and business profits were left untaxed in order to stimulate rapid reinvestment. By 1936, industrial production in Sweden was 50 percent above what it had been in 1929 and unemployment had returned to 5 percent."

    The Great Depression, to 1935

    Summary
     
  2. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    We've never had anything close to laissez faire economics.

    http://mises.org/story/3165

    Laissez-faire capitalism has a definite meaning, which is totally ignored, contradicted, and downright defiled by such statements as those quoted above. Laissez-faire capitalism is a politico-economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and in which the powers of the state are limited to the protection of the individual's rights against the initiation of physical force. This protection applies to the initiation of physical force by other private individuals, by foreign governments, and, most importantly, by the individual's own government. This last is accomplished by such means as a written constitution, a system of division of powers and checks and balances, an explicit bill of rights, and eternal vigilance on the part of a citizenry with the right to keep and bear arms. Under laissez-faire capitalism, the state consists essentially just of a police force, law courts, and a national defense establishment, which deter and combat those who initiate the use of physical force. And nothing more.

    The utter absurdity of statements claiming that the present political-economic environment of the United States in some sense represents laissez-faire capitalism becomes as glaringly obvious as anything can be when one keeps in mind the extremely limited role of government under laissez-faire and then considers the following facts about the present-day United States:

    1.

    Government spending in the United States currently equals more than forty percent of national income, i.e., the sum of all wages and salaries and profits and interest earned in the country. This is without counting any of the massive off-budget spending such as that on account of the government enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Nor does it count any of the recent spending on assorted "bailouts." What this means is that substantially more than forty dollars of every one hundred dollars of output are appropriated by the government against the will of the individual citizens who produce that output. The money and the goods involved are turned over to the government only because the individual citizens wish to stay out of jail. Their freedom to dispose of their own incomes and output is thus violated on a colossal scale. In contrast, under laissez-faire capitalism, government spending would be on such a modest scale that a mere revenue tariff might be sufficient to support it. The corporate and individual income taxes, inheritance and capital gains taxes, and social security and Medicare taxes would not exist.
    2.

    There are presently fifteen federal cabinet departments, nine of which exist for the very purpose of respectively interfering with housing, transportation, healthcare, education, energy, mining, agriculture, labor, and commerce, and virtually all of which nowadays routinely ride roughshod over one or more important aspects of the economic freedom of the individual. Under laissez-faire capitalism, eleven of the fifteen cabinet departments would cease to exist and only the departments of justice, defense, state, and treasury would remain. Within those departments, moreover, further reductions would be made, such as the abolition of the IRS in the Treasury Department and the Antitrust Division in the Department of Justice.
    3.

    The economic interference of today's cabinet departments is reinforced and amplified by more than one hundred federal agencies and commissions, the most well known of which include, besides the IRS, the FRB and FDIC, the FBI and CIA, the EPA, FDA, SEC, CFTC, NLRB, FTC, FCC, FERC, FEMA, FAA, CAA, INS, OHSA, CPSC, NHTSA, EEOC, BATF, DEA, NIH, and NASA. Under laissez-faire capitalism, all such agencies and commissions would be done away with, with the exception of the FBI, which would be reduced to the legitimate functions of counterespionage and combating crimes against person or property that take place across state lines.
    4.

    To complete this catalog of government interference and its trampling of any vestige of laissez faire, as of the end of 2007, the last full year for which data are available, the Federal Register contained fully seventy-three thousand pages of detailed government regulations. This is an increase of more than ten thousand pages since 1978, the very years during which our system, according to one of The New York Times articles quoted above, has been "tilted in favor of business deregulation and against new rules." Under laissez-faire capitalism, there would be no Federal Register. The activities of the remaining government departments and their subdivisions would be controlled exclusively by duly enacted legislation, not the rule-making of unelected government officials.
    5.

    And, of course, to all of this must be added the further massive apparatus of laws, departments, agencies, and regulations at the state and local level. Under laissez-faire capitalism, these too for the most part would be completely abolished and what remained would reflect the same kind of radical reductions in the size and scope of government activity as those carried out on the federal level.

    What this brief account has shown is that the politico-economic system of the United States today is so far removed from laissez-faire capitalism that it is closer to the system of a police state. The ability of the media to ignore all of the massive government interference that exists today and to characterize our present economic system as one of laissez faire and economic freedom marks it as, if not profoundly dishonest, then as nothing less than delusional.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Yeah, I believe that.

    We have, and no nation on earth, has EVER had Laissez-faire capitalism.

    If you have to tax AT ALL, you no longer have laissez-faire capitalism.

    If you have any kind of government any kind of interference you don't have laissez-faire capitalism.

    The Mises institute wants to cheat and claims that you can have government, but only a goverment which prvents people from stealing.

    But that isn't laissez-faire capitalism, either.

    Why not?

    Because any kind of government must be paid for and that requires that the government can take from those what have, too.

    We can have REAL laissez-faire capitalism the very moment that original sin is no longer a component of humankind.

    Or in that case, we could have any kind of government or no goverment at all becaus e we wouldn't NEED government.

    But until then?

    We will have governments and those government will prevent the kind of FREEDOM that it takes to have laissez-faire capitalism.

    Kind of a shame isn't it?



     
  4. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    I don't have a problem with paying reasonable taxes to fund the activities of government expressly laid out in the Constitution.

    I have a problem with more and bigger government spending programs which are tantamount to more waste and corruption.

    How much is a reasonable tax?

    How about 15% of income
     
  5. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    How about doing what fucking works instead of placing arbirtrary limits on something by just pulling it out of your spincter?
     
  6. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    and a tax code of tens of thousands of p[ages is not full of arbitrary nonsense?

    How much of your income are you willing to let the government spend?

    Right now nearly the first four months of every year's labor is solely to pay taxes.
    Wanna shoot for 6 months, 11 months, hey let's just give it all to our benevolent government.
     
  7. Truthmatters
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  8. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Why aren't you asking the democrats these questions--they are running the show in case you haven't heard .
     
  9. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    "Republicans History Sweden."

    Democrats History Russia.
     
  10. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    lying and stupid is no way to go through life dude.

    buy a clue to reality
     

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