Republican Religious Right - building the ideal country

[rdean]

Of course if your murdering children in the womb you wouldn't want to be called a murderer, but it doesn't change the fact that you are taking the life of another human and ...well.. that makes you a murderer.

...

Non-living things do not do these things.

You have still failed to address the fact that I am speaking of sexuality where you are speaking on abortion--albeit controversial, the issues are markedly different.

Homosexuals bring nothing of value to society, nothing more needs to be said.

I wonder what your "accomplishments" are? I suspect nothing to be proud of. No could possibly be accomplished and that stupid, it's not possible.

Oh that is truly funny. There are scientific organizations made up of gay scientists, doctors, engineers. I looked for one made up of evangelicals and couldn't find any. Unless it's the "Creation museum" where they have animatronic dinosaurs sticking out of "Noah's Ark".

The father of Modern Computer language, you know, what you use, Alan Turing was gay.
He broke Nazi codes during WWII saving possibly hundreds of thousands of lives, if not more.

Then there are all the contributions in art, science, music, literature, dance. The list is endless. I can't think of any Evangelical or Famous Christian artists. Unless you say, Michelangelo or Da Vinci, oops, both gay.

Then of course, there is Philip Johnson, famous for The Chrystal Cathedral.

10 Divinely Designed Churches. – Neatorama

You can see his work at "10 Divinely Designed Churches."

You gotta wonder how many of the other 9 churches were designed by Gays? So, if those "intelligent" Evangelicals could have designed their own church, they would have. BUT THEY DIDN'T! They don't even study science.

 

[Alvin]

Homosexuals bring nothing of value to society, nothing more needs to be said.

Ted Haggart certainly didn't.

 

[bodecea]

Let's see:

If homosexuals gave up their sinful lives and lived a godly life, there would be many more children in the next generation. In fact, generations of people who otherwise would not exist would have an opportunity to live and exist. Like wise with eliminating abortion.

Generations of great people who dont get to be born now would live. How on earth is that somehow bad?

Why on earth do you think that people taking responsibility for their actions would create kids that are abused by parents who dont want them? Most kids arent planned. But they are loved nonetheless. Do you abuse the children you dont want? How is taking responsibility for ones actions a bad thing? And it begs a question. Is it better for a child to be abused and live or dead?

Marriage would be significantly better simply by it not being under attack anymore and not being redefined. No one has ever denied that the divorce rate is something that needs to be fixed. Yet, you seem to think that because our society has some problems with marriage that we need to make it worse. Your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.

As for the ideal country. I want to see us become a nation that doesnt need to be governed by people in Washington, or even the states. I want those just to be default safeguards. I want us to be a pure and selfless people. I want us to be an honest people. I want us to be more focused on taking care of ourselves then letting others take care of ourselves. I want us to be willing to help others learn to take care of themselves instead of just running to the government and pretending that solves anything. I want us to be united in reality and not just name.

Obviously, thats an ideal. and that isnt going to happen by passing laws. Im not naive to believe it can be done that way. But I think it can be done. It just wont happen tomorrow and it wont happen without alot of work.

6,000,000,000 and growing as is.

 

[Douger]

But God supports murders of women and children as in Iraq?

Is it worse to kill someone who has tasted life or one who has not known life?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson, quoted in Boswell's Life of Johnson
English author, critic, & lexicographer (1709 - 1784)

 

[Newby]

Weather you like it or not, our constitution and the declaration of independence were written by people who beleived in a divine presence. It is clear and documented evidence that we are a Christian Judeo nation. Thomas Jefferson the 4th President of the U.S allowed church services in the congress and the White House and also approved federal funding $100 per year for a Catholic Priest who was teaching his religion to indians. He also approved that children be taught to read by reading the bible and religious song books.

You libs try to distort the history and the facts on this. God is against abortions.

That is bollox. Jefferson was a Deist, not a Christian. Yes he did collect many religious ideas (including the Quaran that Ellison was sworn in on as the first Muslim member of congress...He had very specific ideas on the implimentation of religion at a governmental level.

Try these snippets from one of your most profound founding fathers...


Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


What is it men cannot be made to believe!

-Thomas Jefferson to Richard Henry Lee, April 22, 1786. (on the British regarding America, but quoted here for its universal appeal.)


Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787


Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom


I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")


I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789


They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800


Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802


History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.


The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814


Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814


In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814


If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816

You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, June 25, 1819


As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819


Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820


To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820


Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.

I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825


May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826 (in the last letter he penned)

What about all of the other founding fathers, what were their backgrounds?

 

[Father Time]

What do they really want?

The conservative Republicans have been very clear in their opposition to abortion and gay marriage.
They say they don’t want to get rid of all the gays, merely lead them to God and help them stop being gay.
They say they don’t want to stop teaching “science”, but merely want to add a “religious element”.

Now, the question becomes, “What is the goal?”

Say they were somehow able to “turn all the gays straight”. How would that help marriage? How would that help straight marriage to end the 50% divorce rate? Or the huge number of people participating in the “swinger’s” lifestyle?

So they add a “religious element” to science. What would that do to better science? What great discoveries will come from adding a “religious element”? How will that help people? What great religious conservative scientists right now will “lead the charge”?

Say they are able to completely outlaw abortion. What will they do to keep those women who didn’t want children from abusing the very children they didn’t want? How will they ensure these children grow up safe and well taken care of as well as being loved?

We know what the religious conservative Republicans want to change. But what do they want to change into? What is the goal?

I have never heard the conservative Republicans speak of the “ideal” country. If they could design the perfect country, what would it be?

Weather you like it or not, our constitution and the declaration of independence were written by people who beleived in a divine presence. It is clear and documented evidence that we are a Christian Judeo nation. Thomas Jefferson the 4th President of the U.S allowed church services in the congress and the White House and also approved federal funding $100 per year for a Catholic Priest who was teaching his religion to indians. He also approved that children be taught to read by reading the bible and religious song books.

You libs try to distort the history and the facts on this. God is against abortions.

Source or shut the fuck up.

Thomas Jefferson (who was the 3rd president not the fourth) once wrote
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."

and yes he was talking about government funded religion
The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom - Religious Freedom Page

Also we are not a Christian nation, never have been, our Constitution does not mention Jesus or Christianity once, and the first amendment alone guarantees us the right to break at least 2 of the 10 commandments.

 

[Father Time]

Let's see:

If homosexuals gave up their sinful lives and lived a godly life, there would be many more children in the next generation.

Right because if you're not gay you're automatically going to want kids, never mind all the gay couples who adopt or use sperm/egg donors.

In fact, generations of people who otherwise would not exist would have an opportunity to live and exist. Like wise with eliminating abortion.

Oh won't somebody please think of the unborn hypothetical children *faint*.

Marriage would be significantly better simply by it not being under attack anymore and not being redefined.

How?

No one has ever denied that the divorce rate is something that needs to be fixed.

I'd put it really damn low on priorities since divorce is a private affair between those involved.

Yet, you seem to think that because our society has some problems with marriage that we need to make it worse. Your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.

You haven't even given any reasoning to why gay marraige would make things worse.

As for the ideal country. I want to see us become a nation that doesnt need to be governed by people in Washington, or even the states. I want those just to be default safeguards. I want us to be a pure and selfless people.

Keep dreaming, although if nobody was greedy half the shit in the world wouldn't get done. Quick how many people can you find that would be willing to regularly inspect sewers without any kind of monetary compensation?

 

[Father Time]

Of course if your murdering children in the womb you wouldn't want to be called a murderer, but it doesn't change the fact that you are taking the life of another human and ...well.. that makes you a murderer.

"To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence." The "Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune, Univ. of Descarte, Paris

"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception." Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic

A scientific textbook called “Basics of Biology” gives five characteristics of living things; these five criteria are found in all modern elementary scientific textbooks:

1. Living things are highly organized.

2. All living things have an ability to acquire materials and energy.

3. All living things have an ability to respond to their environment.

4. All living things have an ability to reproduce.

5. All living things have an ability to adapt.

According to this elementary definition of life, life begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte. From this moment, the being is highly organized, has the ability to acquire materials and energy, has the ability to respond to his or her environment, has the ability to adapt, and has the ability to reproduce (the cells divide, then divide again, etc., and barring pathology and pending reproductive maturity has the potential to reproduce other members of the species). Non-living things do not do these things.

Gee, I wonder how many of those abortions come from people who are getting a divorce?

Typical left wing idiot tactic, shift the subject.

You mean like all the right wingers complaining 'but Dems suck too' (not saying that's inaccurate just that it's an attempt to misdirect from the subject at hand)?

 

[rdean]

I wonder if Christians would create a country with constitutionally mandated "public option"? You know, like the Republicans did in Iraq.

How come the Republicans wanted the citizens of Iraq to have a public option, but not the citizens of the United States? What makes them more important than US citizens to Republicans?

 

[Newby]

What do they really want?

The conservative Republicans have been very clear in their opposition to abortion and gay marriage.
They say they don’t want to get rid of all the gays, merely lead them to God and help them stop being gay.
They say they don’t want to stop teaching “science”, but merely want to add a “religious element”.

Now, the question becomes, “What is the goal?”

Say they were somehow able to “turn all the gays straight”. How would that help marriage? How would that help straight marriage to end the 50% divorce rate? Or the huge number of people participating in the “swinger’s” lifestyle?

So they add a “religious element” to science. What would that do to better science? What great discoveries will come from adding a “religious element”? How will that help people? What great religious conservative scientists right now will “lead the charge”?

Say they are able to completely outlaw abortion. What will they do to keep those women who didn’t want children from abusing the very children they didn’t want? How will they ensure these children grow up safe and well taken care of as well as being loved?

We know what the religious conservative Republicans want to change. But what do they want to change into? What is the goal?

I have never heard the conservative Republicans speak of the “ideal” country. If they could design the perfect country, what would it be?

Weather you like it or not, our constitution and the declaration of independence were written by people who beleived in a divine presence. It is clear and documented evidence that we are a Christian Judeo nation. Thomas Jefferson the 4th President of the U.S allowed church services in the congress and the White House and also approved federal funding $100 per year for a Catholic Priest who was teaching his religion to indians. He also approved that children be taught to read by reading the bible and religious song books.

You libs try to distort the history and the facts on this. God is against abortions.

Source or shut the fuck up.

Thomas Jefferson (who was the 3rd president not the fourth) once wrote
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."

and yes he was talking about government funded religion
The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom - Religious Freedom Page

Also we are not a Christian nation, never have been, our Constitution does not mention Jesus or Christianity once, and the first amendment alone guarantees us the right to break at least 2 of the 10 commandments.

What happened at the start of the very first congressional session, and for how long?

 

[Father Time]

Weather you like it or not, our constitution and the declaration of independence were written by people who beleived in a divine presence. It is clear and documented evidence that we are a Christian Judeo nation. Thomas Jefferson the 4th President of the U.S allowed church services in the congress and the White House and also approved federal funding $100 per year for a Catholic Priest who was teaching his religion to indians. He also approved that children be taught to read by reading the bible and religious song books.

You libs try to distort the history and the facts on this. God is against abortions.

Source or shut the fuck up.

Thomas Jefferson (who was the 3rd president not the fourth) once wrote
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."

and yes he was talking about government funded religion
The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom - Religious Freedom Page

Also we are not a Christian nation, never have been, our Constitution does not mention Jesus or Christianity once, and the first amendment alone guarantees us the right to break at least 2 of the 10 commandments.

What happened at the start of the very first congressional session, and for how long?

Was it optional (like say swearing to God in a court of law) or was it mandatory?

 

[Newby]

Source or shut the fuck up.

Thomas Jefferson (who was the 3rd president not the fourth) once wrote
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."

and yes he was talking about government funded religion
The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom - Religious Freedom Page

Also we are not a Christian nation, never have been, our Constitution does not mention Jesus or Christianity once, and the first amendment alone guarantees us the right to break at least 2 of the 10 commandments.

What happened at the start of the very first congressional session, and for how long?

Was it optional (like say swearing to God in a court of law) or was it mandatory?

Why don't you answer the question?

What were a great many of the founding father's vocations? What kind of degrees did they have?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

WTF are you idiots talking about? Are you this simple minded?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Do you know that there are non-religeous gays that are opposed to gay marriage???? Do you know that there are a great many women who are opposed to abortion?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

My sister's best friend is an ATHIEST LESBIAN and she is opposed to abortion....

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I love those who have this insane need to lump everybody into a category.. a group.. and then summarily dismiss them.

 

[rdean]

My sister's best friend is an ATHIEST LESBIAN and she is opposed to abortion....

I don't know anyone who is "pro" abortion. Liberals are "pro" women's rights. When conservatives say people are "pro" abortion, it's just more of their lies. They try to make liberals seem less than human. But the fact is that they do nothing for the mother or the child proves it's they have no heart to feel with , no mind to think with, and no soul.

If conservatives actually gave a rat's ass, they would they would want to put policies in place that would make abortion unneccessary. Just turning everyone into criminals isn't the answer, but it's their answer. Why are they so good at "failed" policies? Hmmmm.

 

[Immanuel]

My sister's best friend is an ATHIEST LESBIAN and she is opposed to abortion....

I don't know anyone who is "pro" abortion. Liberals are "pro" women's rights. When conservatives say people are "pro" abortion, it's just more of their lies. They try to make liberals seem less than human. But the fact is that they do nothing for the mother or the child proves it's they have no heart to feel with , no mind to think with, and no soul.

If conservatives actually gave a rat's ass, they would they would want to put policies in place that would make abortion unneccessary. Just turning everyone into criminals isn't the answer, but it's their answer. Why are they so good at "failed" policies? Hmmmm.

They try to make liberals seem less than human.

Can you honestly say you are any different in your treatment of conservatives with your broad brush?

Immie