Republican Plan to end Health Care for Americans

[Big Fitz]

The US ranks 38th in longevity.

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

They also leave out things like Suicide and abortions from their statistics, unlike American groups who record such things. I'd like to see what would happen to their numbers if recorded by the same standards as America does. Then again, I'd be curious to how American standards improve by using THEIR standards.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Bingo. Great Post.
The idiots passed this clusterfuck without even reading it.
Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, made the statement, "We have to pass it before we know whats in it."

Out of context what Nancy was saying was that the only Americans would know what the bil does is if it was passed and implemented; then they could view the results and see the massive GOP lies as what they are bullshit

Anyone who thinks anything the Govt has a hand in is going to be cheaper and better is a flamming idiot in my book.

So according to you people who are in touch with reality are flamming idiots....

Everything the Govt touches turns to shit in no time.

So is that why govt run prisons, schools, health systems, retirement accounts, utilities, charities, transportation, courts, and insurance are all more efficient then private counterparts?

I'm not interested in paying higher premiums so others can be covered.

Obamacare will actually reduce premiums.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/assets_c/2009/12/healthcoststable.html
^Health care reform will reduce health care premiums and expenditures made by families making 37,000 or less by 70%, and families making 72,000-85,000 by 25%

Ezra Klein - Massachusetts provides evidence that health-care reform lowers insurance premiums
-Evidence from Mass shows that costs will drop by 55%, though Mass has less cost controls and reductions then the ACA. Cost to drop 50% in non-group market. In the next 4 years.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/reports/premiums01282011a.pdf
^Obamacare will reduce premiums by over 41% in 2014.
^Obmacare will further reduce premiums by 2,000 a year by 2019

 

[Greenbeard]

No. My issue is it is an unconstitutional use of government power. Health Care is NOT... repeat NOT a right.

Cool.

What section or provision of the legislation are you taking issue with? If it's the existence of Medicaid, you're arguing against the wrong piece of legislation.

 

[bripat9643]

The US ranks 38th in longevity.

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

I doubt the differences in those habits are that dramatic. However, there is no doubt that Americans are far heavier than people in other countries. Anyone who has been overseas knows that.

 

[starcraftzzz]

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

They also leave out things like Suicide and abortions from their statistics, unlike American groups who record such things. I'd like to see what would happen to their numbers if recorded by the same standards as America does. Then again, I'd be curious to how American standards improve by using THEIR standards.

The CIA and UN collects life expectancy data using the same standards they find the same thing Europeans live longer then Americans

 

[starcraftzzz]

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

I doubt the differences in those habits are that dramatic. However, there is no doubt that Americans are far heavier than people in other countries. Anyone who has been overseas knows that.

Europeans drink double the alcohol then Americans
File:Alcohol consumption per capita world map.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They also have a50% larger smokign population
Prevalence of tobacco consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The US ranks 38th in longevity.

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

Since when? Did America suddenly become the leanest and most fit nation instead of the fattest and least active one?

 

[Big Fitz]

No. My issue is it is an unconstitutional use of government power. Health Care is NOT... repeat NOT a right.

Cool.

What section or provision of the legislation are you taking issue with? If it's the existence of Medicaid, you're arguing against the wrong piece of legislation.

Medicaid is long overdue to being repealed, along with social security, almost every corporate subsidy, and about every executive cabinet agency and department made after 1951 reverting all those powers back to the states. Almost universally that stuff is unconstitutional and just as repulsive as Jim Crow was. But hey, that took decades to realize how heinous it was before good sane people repealed it.

So what piece? All of it and more. The concept of a 'living evolving constitution' is dead. Cancer of the false premise.

BTW, don't forget we repealed prohibition. No precident based on stupidity is eternal it seems.

 

[USMCSergeant]

The disagreement the left and right have here is all about money. I'm conservative fiscally, on some social issues I lean liberal and my view on this is very simple. We cannot afford it.

So according to you we cannot afford to lower health care costs and reduce the long term deficit and trillions of dollars. If we can't afford that then we sure as hell can't afford what we currently had.

Healthcare costs can be lowered without involving the government. The biggest difference between you and I, is that I do not look for the government to fix everything. Usually the best plan is getting the government as far away as possible.

Eventually healthcare does need to be addressed, but now isn't the time. Well maybe it is because Obama pushed the legislation through without anyone really having a chance to read the bill.

The CBO read the bill and in fact they laid out excatly what the bill odes. Just because you have not read something does not mean everyone else has not read it


I see so with a large deficit/debt you do not think it is time to pass a bill that reduced long term debt by trillions of dollars


How stupid of you to analysis Obamacare and discount half of its spending reductions

I will not resort to name calling with you. I would like to have an intelligent, adult conversation between two grown people. If you can explain how Obamacare will be paid for after 2014, I'd love to hear it.

Socialized medicine shouldn't be the answer.

Who cares what "should be" the fact remains that socialized medicine is far superior then private medicine

In your opinion. My opinion is very different. At this point in time, I'm still allowed to have this opinion and you've done nothing to change it besides saying socialized medicine is far superior to private. How so?

We have enough abuse, fraud in the welfare/disability department, it should be quite obvious that government involvement in our everyday lives never works.

Except when it comes to health care, retirement, energy, water, utilities, schools, transportation, the environment working conditions, science research, energy standards, etc etc

Health care? You think healthcare here is better since Obamacare was started. WOW!

You think Social Security is working and there are no shortfalls in money? Wait until all the baby boomers retire. Wait until the retirement age is pushed back to 75.

Government has no place in energy.

Schools. Seriously? Have you seen what we pay per student per year and where we place in math and science to other countries who spend FAR less than us per student per year. Google that and come back.

You are not researching these issues, or you are refusing to look at facts. Our government was never supposed to be involved in half of these issues. States should handle them. As a country we've learned to depend on the .fed for our every need. This has to stop.

 

[starcraftzzz]

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

Since when? Did America suddenly become the leanest and most fit nation instead of the fattest and least active one?

Are you really so stupid that you think using tobacco and drinking alcohol means how many fat people you have. Americans are fatter but Europeans use more alcohol, drugs and tobacco

 

[starcraftzzz]

The disagreement the left and right have here is all about money. I'm conservative fiscally, on some social issues I lean liberal and my view on this is very simple. We cannot afford it.

So according to you we cannot afford to lower health care costs and reduce the long term deficit and trillions of dollars. If we can't afford that then we sure as hell can't afford what we currently had.

Healthcare costs can be lowered without involving the government. The biggest difference between you and I, is that I do not look for the government to fix everything. Usually the best plan is getting the government as far away as possible.

Sure health care costs CAN be lowered with out government but in reality it doesn't happen. The difference between you and me is that I actually have a plan that will slash wasteful spending and make health care more efficient; while you just say we need to stick with what has failed to work for the past 50 years

The CBO read the bill and in fact they laid out excatly what the bill odes. Just because you have not read something does not mean everyone else has not read it
I see so with a large deficit/debt you do not think it is time to pass a bill that reduced long term debt by trillions of dollars
How stupid of you to analysis Obamacare and discount half of its spending reductions

I will not resort to name calling with you. I would like to have an intelligent, adult conversation between two grown people. If you can explain how Obamacare will be paid for after 2014, I'd love to hear it.

It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you because you are not intelligent

Who cares what "should be" the fact remains that socialized medicine is far superior then private medicine

In your opinion. My opinion is very different. At this point in time, I'm still allowed to have this opinion and you've done nothing to change it besides saying socialized medicine is far superior to private. How so?

No it is not my opinion it is reality. You see your opinion is based purely on ideology, my opinion is based on evidence. Every industrialized country with socialized health care has higher health outcomes then America despite spending half of what America spends. Furthermore Medicare and the VA both socialized health care systems cost half of what private health care costs despite having better health outcomes and quality of care.
Furthermore the GOP tried private reforms in Medicare twice since 2001 and the result was a skyrocket in wasteful spending. Since the 50's wasteful health spending in the private sector has been increased faster then total health care spending.

We have enough abuse, fraud in the welfare/disability department, it should be quite obvious that government involvement in our everyday lives never works.

Except when it comes to health care, retirement, energy, water, utilities, schools, transportation, the environment working conditions, science research, energy standards, etc etc

Health care? You think healthcare here is better since Obamacare was started. WOW!

See this is the problem you are to stupid to even realize that most of Obamacare hasn't even been implemented yet. Here is a list of some of the things Obamacare has already done
Insurers are spending more of our dollars on actual health care - The Washington Post
^Obamacares medical loss ratio regulation has resulted in 1.3billion in rebates to consumers in 2011
And has resulted in insurance companies spending more of their money on actual benefits

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Medicar...ve-Bidding-Update-One-Year-Implementation.pdf
^ACA’s CMS competitive bidding program for durable medical equipment and supplies has saved over 200million in its first year. In 2013 the program will be extended and is estimated to save 45billion between 2013-2022

Administration Implements Affordable Care Act Provision to Improve Care, Lower Costs
^ACA expansion of value-based medicine estimated to save 60,000 lives and 35 billion dollars in its first 3 years.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-01-10/pdf/2012-132.pdf
^New ACA regulations expanding electric funds transfers around 200million dollars a year

Affordable Care Act cuts health care red tape, saves $12 billion
^New ACA regulation simplifying of eligibility rules and claim transactions to save a net of 1.2billion dollars a year by reducing bureaucracy/paper work
Health reform at 2: Why American health care will never be the same - The Washington Post
^Medicare’s bundled payment system that pays based on health outcomes costs 5% less than fee-for-service; and has resulted din doctors getting higher salaries. This payment system is mandated to expand to non-Medicare related payments

INFOGRAPHIC: The Affordable Care Act Turns Two | ThinkProgress
^Some effects of ACA 2 years after passing.
1) 54million Americans now have access to preventative medicine.
2) 2.5million children now have health care via their parents
3) 51million seniors now have lower prescription drug costs

Will workplace wellness programs work? - The Washington Post
^The ACA provide subsidies for employers, and other programs to boost wellness program participation of which wellness programs have a 6-1 benefit cost ratio
^The ACA has cut premiums for Pre-existing condition insurance plans by 40%.

You think Social Security is working and there are no shortfalls in money? Wait until all the baby boomers retire. Wait until the retirement age is pushed back to 75.

See you are so stupid that you can't even read. I said that SS is more efficient then private counterparts.
http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

Government has no place in energy.

Govt controlled energy utilities are 30% more efficient then private ones
Electric deregulation fails to live up to promises as bills soar - USATODAY.com

Schools. Seriously? Have you seen what we pay per student per year and where we place in math and science to other countries who spend FAR less than us per student per year. Google that and come back.

See you are so stupid you do not know the difference between comparing public schools to private schools and comparing different countries to other countries
Public schools are cheaper and result in higher test scores then private schools
About Those Milwaukee Vouchers | ThinkProgress
^Milwaukee students who take vouchers and go to private schools score anywhere from 10-30% lower on standardized tests.

Public Schools Outperform Private Schools in Math Instruction
^ILL researchers have found that public school students outscore private score students in math because public schools have more certified teachers, and curriculum that de-emphasized learning by rote methods.

GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.

You are not researching these issues, or you are refusing to look at facts.

Is that why I am able to post countless studies proving me correct?
Now do you see why I insult you? It is because you're whole world view is contrary to reality

 

[logical4u]

Yes, your tax dollars will be going to Sebilius to throw parties that put GSA's to shame. The money that is left over will be used to pay for administrators of "health care". Just how much money do you think the "gov't" is going to actually spend on healthcare? Third world health care here we come. It is all about sharing the MISERY, not improving people's lives.

 

[logical4u]

That's only because Americans are incredibly fat. Lots of things factor into longevity other than the quality of healthcare you recieve.

Using irrelevant statistics is a favorite propaganda tactic of leftwing liars.

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

Since when? Did America suddenly become the leanest and most fit nation instead of the fattest and least active one?

Since the gov't will have to pay for healthcare, now. Wait and see how many people will be told just how healthy they are to avoid paying for treatments.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

However Europeans smoke drink and use more illegal drugs; when you incldue all factors Euroepans should live shorter lvies then amiercans

Since when? Did America suddenly become the leanest and most fit nation instead of the fattest and least active one?

Are you really so stupid that you think using tobacco and drinking alcohol means how many fat people you have. Americans are fatter but Europeans use more alcohol, drugs and tobacco

The fact that more Europeans drink than Americans does not mean they get rip snorting drunk or that they drink in binges. Most Europeans drink alcohol mot the gene moderately, 1 to 2 drinks a day has been shown to be beneficial to health. As for smoking, I know people of people who smoke every day and live to be over 100. There is a whole village of them in Europe somewhere, which indicates that it is genetic, and that the genes are in the genetic pool over there.

What do you base your claim that they do more illegal drugs on?

 

[starcraftzzz]

Since when? Did America suddenly become the leanest and most fit nation instead of the fattest and least active one?

Are you really so stupid that you think using tobacco and drinking alcohol means how many fat people you have. Americans are fatter but Europeans use more alcohol, drugs and tobacco

The fact that more Europeans drink than Americans does not mean they get rip snorting drunk or that they drink in binges. Most Europeans drink alcohol mot the gene moderately, 1 to 2 drinks a day has been shown to be beneficial to health. As for smoking, I know people of people who smoke every day and live to be over 100. There is a whole village of them in Europe somewhere, which indicates that it is genetic, and that the genes are in the genetic pool over there.

What do you base your claim that they do more illegal drugs on?

I see so your reponse is that tobacco and alcohol are actually healthy for you. IT reminds me of when teh GOP said that mercry pollution creaters jobs

 

[Vidi]

Are you really so stupid that you think using tobacco and drinking alcohol means how many fat people you have. Americans are fatter but Europeans use more alcohol, drugs and tobacco

The fact that more Europeans drink than Americans does not mean they get rip snorting drunk or that they drink in binges. Most Europeans drink alcohol mot the gene moderately, 1 to 2 drinks a day has been shown to be beneficial to health. As for smoking, I know people of people who smoke every day and live to be over 100. There is a whole village of them in Europe somewhere, which indicates that it is genetic, and that the genes are in the genetic pool over there.

What do you base your claim that they do more illegal drugs on?

I see so your reponse is that tobacco and alcohol are actually healthy for you. IT reminds me of when teh GOP said that mercry pollution creaters jobs

thats not what he said...

However, alcohol in moderate amounts is actually healthy for you. Binge drinking is not.

 

[USMCSergeant]

blah blah

You're right, there will be no intelligent conversation between us. You are the poster boy faux intellectual elite liberal, that refuses to accept there can be any other view of the world, and ridicules opposing views by using the word stupid over and over again like a 5 year old. I was nothing but polite to you, although disagreeing with you. Good luck in life, you'll need it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Medicaid is long overdue to being repealed, along with social security, almost every corporate subsidy, and about every executive cabinet agency and department made after 1951 reverting all those powers back to the states. Almost universally that stuff is unconstitutional and just as repulsive as Jim Crow was.

An extreme view rejected even by most of the fringe right.

 

[Claudette]

blah blah

You're right, there will be no intelligent conversation between us. You are the poster boy faux intellectual elite liberal, that refuses to accept there can be any other view of the world, and ridicules opposing views by using the word stupid over and over again like a 5 year old. I was nothing but polite to you, although disagreeing with you. Good luck in life, you'll need it.

Your lucky he didn't call you a retard.

Thats what he called myself and Tiny Dancer when we didn't agree with his progressive ass.

TD and I thought it was funny. It still is. LOL

 

[Big Fitz]

Medicaid is long overdue to being repealed, along with social security, almost every corporate subsidy, and about every executive cabinet agency and department made after 1951 reverting all those powers back to the states. Almost universally that stuff is unconstitutional and just as repulsive as Jim Crow was.

An extreme view rejected even by most of the fringe right.

Of course it's unpopular. Mostly because of the conflicted interests of this nation, regardless of it being the correct thing to do. Repealing Jim Crow was very unpopular to white supremacists and segregationists. So? Repealing Prohibition was unbelievably unpopular to the Temperance movement. And?

It doesn't make me wrong. Just disliked. I can live with that. The agrieved parties are inconsequential when it comes to doing the right thing, constitutionally for this nation. The law cares not about popularity. If it did, Zimmerman would have been shot on sight by the first cop that saw him.

Then again, I won't have to worry about it for too much longer. They're all going bankrupt and will be unable to exist in less than 20 years. Sooner than that if the dollar collapses like it seems to be doomed to do.