Republican Orin Hatch calls for MASSIVE EXPANSION of Government

[PatekPhilippe]

That's why the government makes it a "condition" of employment....if you don't want the government knowing your drug habits then seek employment elsewhere...I think the same should go for receiving government assistance. If you want taxpayer money from the government for "subsistence" you better not be spending it on drugs.

There, again, you're accepting the premises that it's any of their business and that the programs have any business existing....Which it isn't and they don't.

No...I accept the premise that it's not a good idea to be flying a fricken stealth bomber loaded with nukes while you're hitting the ice pipe and freebasing cocaine.

 

[Oddball]

Non sequitur.

Military personnel are considered to be on duty 24/7.

 

[Christopher]

Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, proposed yesterday that people seeking unemployment benefits or welfare undergo drug tests before they can receive benefits

Hatch suggests such a system would save money and reduce the deficit, presumably by virtue of withholding benefits from those who fail drug tests. His release does not address the costs of drug testing everyone receiving unemployment or welfare benefits or enrolling those who fail the test in treatment programs.

Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Millions and million of Americans unemployed and Orin Hatch wants to start a "massive expansion" of Federal Government to test these millions and millions of people for drugs.

We would have to set up tens of thousands of labs and staff. It could cost billions. Oh those "fiscally conservative Republicans". Always "thinking".

I would not call this a "massive expansion" of the government. Since we already have a welfare system, I agree with his proposal. Do you give money to people on the street that you know are just going to use that money for drugs? I prefer to hand them food or tell them "I'll go buy you some lunch".

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Non sequitur.

Military personnel are considered to be on duty 24/7.

Non sequitur....NOT.
There's more to the military than soldiers. That's why DOD requires random drug testing as a condition of employment. Like I said...if you don't want the government knowing your drug history then seek employment elsewhere....it's really that simple....same with accepting taxpayer dollars IMHO....if you want to accept tax payer money for subsistence then you better not be spending it on drugs.

 

[Oddball]

Name the civilian that has ever flown a B-2 with a nuke aboard.

G'head...I have time.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Name the civilian that has ever flown a B-2 with a nuke aboard.

G'head...I have time.

Who do you think builds those nukes? Soldiers?

 

[Oddball]

No...I accept the premise that it's not a good idea to be flying a fricken stealth bomber loaded with nukes while you're hitting the ice pipe and freebasing cocaine.

Did you say that or not?

Quit moving the goalposts.

 

[Care4all]

Non sequitur.

Military personnel are considered to be on duty 24/7.

Non sequitur....NOT.
There's more to the military than soldiers. That's why DOD requires random drug testing as a condition of employment. Like I said...if you don't want the government knowing your drug history then seek employment elsewhere....it's really that simple....same with accepting taxpayer dollars IMHO....if you want to accept tax payer money for subsistence then you better not be spending it on drugs.

Does the government randomly test for alcohol as well? if not, why not?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

No...I accept the premise that it's not a good idea to be flying a fricken stealth bomber loaded with nukes while you're hitting the ice pipe and freebasing cocaine.

Did you say that or not?

Quit moving the goalposts.

I'm not moving the goal posts....random drug testing is a part of the government conditions of employment...bottom line. I didn't say anything about civilians flying military aircraft...but I bet you at some point during the testing of various systems that there were civilians on board a stealth bomber when they were carrying nukes...as a matter of fact I'll bet my next paycheck on that.

Look. You view this as "illegal search" fine. There's nothing I can say to change your view. I know the reason why they conduct random drug testing and I accept it because I don't do drugs so I have nothing to fear. For those who choose to pollute their mind with chemicals in an attempt to achieve some sense of self worth or some sort of escape from reality...well go ahead and enjoy...but...don't spend tax payer dollars buying it. That's all anyone is saying.

 

[Oddball]

First of all, the Air Force doesn't even do scenario testing with live nuke munitions....That's what we call "begging for a disastrous accident". Claiming that civilians would be involved is ludicrous.

Secondly, you did move the goalposts...Only full-time officers, who are presumed to be on duty 24/7, fly B-2 bombers on combat missions, which was your original premise.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

So where's the problem with random drug testing? Are you saying it'a acceptable to spend taxpayer dollars on crack instead of enfamil and rent?

 

[Oddball]

I say it's unacceptable to spend taxpayer dollars on charity to begin with.

Unlike republicans, I reject the original premise of the legitimacy of both the socialistic welfare state AND the foolish "war" on (some) drugs. Therefore, I also reject fudging the both of them, rather than rejecting the premises outright, as the basic and all-too-familiar republican strategy of trying to polish turds.

 

[MaggieMae]

Lame post. I would 100% support this idea. And if there was a system that could be implemented to keep those on Food Stamps from using them to buy sugary sodas and potato chips, I would support that too.

I think the list of what food stamps cover should exclude those but add toilet paper and paper towels.

 

[MaggieMae]

Drug Tests for Unemployment Compensation - NO - they were probably tested at their previous job and will be when they get a new one.

Drug Test for Welfare - Yes - Tax dollars do not need to got to people who sit on the couch eating BonBons and Doing Drugs.

Since much of welfare dollars comes in the form of block grants for the states to decide how the money in spent, it's up to the individual states to do drug tests or not. My state does drug testing when a person cannot show he/she has spent any measurable time trying to find a job, etc., I think it's after the third time they reapply.

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't see how Hatch's proposal would in any way (gasp!) EXPAND government. It makes sense. Drug testing would not need to be done by the government when there are private drug testing facilities from coast to coast - in part because of employer-required drug testing. It's not like these tests are $10,000 a pop.

I was in the grocery store in line behind a woman a week or so ago - she had on sun glasses but I could see her eyes well enough from the side to see they were all red and bloodshot. She bought a pack of gum with her food stamp card, requested $100 in cash and asked the clerk if she could use the card again right away. What do you think she was spending the money on? If she could draw down $100 in cash and still have room to use the card again, she had some dependents she should have been thinking about feeding rather than where she could get her next hit. A lot of food stamp/welfare money goes to drug purchases. A lot of people on welfare have live-in boyfriends or unreported husbands supporting them, some just jump from man to man and have no idea which one is the father of the child they're giving birth to ... another child = more welfare/food stamp money.

I can tell you from a legal secretary's perch and from personal observation that many of these people have "inside" help who approve their benefits even when they know it's a lie. They know how to play the system - and they do it quite well.

So one horror story translates into everyone using food stamps as abusing the system? I usually see the example which was virally generated about the women in furs standing in the grocery line who bought lobsters and steaks and drove away in a brand new Cadillac.

EBT Card
Can you get cash back at the grocery store from SNAP/food stamp benefits?
No. You can only receive cash back if you have both cash welfare (TAFDC) benefits and SNAP/food stamp benefits on your card. If you want to use your cash welfare benefits to buy food or get cash back, you have to swipe your EBT card in the machine a second time.

The whole purpose of going to the electronic card is to reduce the abuse found with the paper "stamps" where it was very easy to buy a pack of gum with a $5.00 stamp and get $4.50 back, then proceed to the next mom & pop store and do the same. If you go to the more extensive sites covering restrictions on food stamp use, you would also see where "cash" is severely restricted and if a transaction falls through the cracks, that "cash" must be reimbursed (usually deducted from the next allotment).

Instead of continuing to bash the system, which many higher income families are now being forced into, I should think you would be grateful that major improvements have been made to avoid misuse as much as possible.

 

[MaggieMae]

BTW - If I have to be clean to get a job so I can work for a living, why shouldn't the same hold true in order to collect public assistance?

Lame post indeed.

The question the premises of you having to be presumed guilty to get a job and the socialistic welfare state, rather than insisting everyone else give up their rights to be equally enslaved with you.

The only urine sample I'd ever give up for a job would be for a taste test.

Dude:

I don't disagree with you often, but here I do kinda. Your presumption of guilt statemnt, I can sympathize with... that's why I rarely shop at WalMart. They always stop you and want to see your receipt, as if they are assuming you have stolen everything in your basket! WIth the drug testing, I see it differently. I have many oilfield clients who randomly drugtest. I can understand that. The last thing you need is a stoner out on an oil platform or in the machine shop. As for public assistance.. I'd kinda like to know that my tax $$ aren't going to openly subsidize drug use.

Just saying.

You must have an ancient WalMart. Ours is very small--no groceries--but the only time I've ever seen anyone asked to see a receipt is when a warning goes off that the tag has been removed from an item.

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't see how Hatch's proposal would in any way (gasp!) EXPAND government. It makes sense. Drug testing would not need to be done by the government when there are private drug testing facilities from coast to coast - in part because of employer-required drug testing. It's not like these tests are $10,000 a pop.

I was in the grocery store in line behind a woman a week or so ago - she had on sun glasses but I could see her eyes well enough from the side to see they were all red and bloodshot. She bought a pack of gum with her food stamp card, requested $100 in cash and asked the clerk if she could use the card again right away. What do you think she was spending the money on? If she could draw down $100 in cash and still have room to use the card again, she had some dependents she should have been thinking about feeding rather than where she could get her next hit. A lot of food stamp/welfare money goes to drug purchases. A lot of people on welfare have live-in boyfriends or unreported husbands supporting them, some just jump from man to man and have no idea which one is the father of the child they're giving birth to ... another child = more welfare/food stamp money.

I can tell you from a legal secretary's perch and from personal observation that many of these people have "inside" help who approve their benefits even when they know it's a lie. They know how to play the system - and they do it quite well.

I think you're making stuff up, honey.

a basic average guideline for the food stamp program will show that an average family of 4 can expect an amount up to $500 per month for food stamps. This figure will greatly vary based on the age of the family members and medical needs. A single person household will show an expected average of up to $200 per month. Again, these figures are averages and not state specific.

INDIANAPOLIS -- Tax dollars are used to pay for food for low-income families, but hundreds of thousands of dollars are misused every year, assisted by some stores willing to break the law to sell people anything on the shelves.

Food stamp funds are doled out through plastic debit cards, which can include funds to buy other things.
Hidden Camera Shows Indiana Food Stamp Fund Misuse - Indiana News Story - WRTV Indianapolis

Looks like Granny isn't making anything up.

So in other words, it's the private sector which is aiding and abetting fraud. Imagine that.

 

[hboats]

The question the premises of you having to be presumed guilty to get a job and the socialistic welfare state, rather than insisting everyone else give up their rights to be equally enslaved with you.

The only urine sample I'd ever give up for a job would be for a taste test.

Dude:

I don't disagree with you often, but here I do kinda. Your presumption of guilt statemnt, I can sympathize with... that's why I rarely shop at WalMart. They always stop you and want to see your receipt, as if they are assuming you have stolen everything in your basket! WIth the drug testing, I see it differently. I have many oilfield clients who randomly drugtest. I can understand that. The last thing you need is a stoner out on an oil platform or in the machine shop. As for public assistance.. I'd kinda like to know that my tax $$ aren't going to openly subsidize drug use.

Just saying.

You must have an ancient WalMart. Ours is very small--no groceries--but the only time I've ever seen anyone asked to see a receipt is when a warning goes off that the tag has been removed from an item.

Then you must never shop in a Wal Mart supercenter. Because at EVERY one they have someone standing by a little counter in the middle of each entrance/exit. And they ask for your receipt sometimes when you are leaving the store. It's done at EVERY Wal Mart supercenter.

Rick

 

[Political Junky]

Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, proposed yesterday that people seeking unemployment benefits or welfare undergo drug tests before they can receive benefits

Hatch suggests such a system would save money and reduce the deficit, presumably by virtue of withholding benefits from those who fail drug tests. His release does not address the costs of drug testing everyone receiving unemployment or welfare benefits or enrolling those who fail the test in treatment programs.

Orrin Hatch Calls For Drug Testing Welfare Recipients - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Millions and million of Americans unemployed and Orin Hatch wants to start a "massive expansion" of Federal Government to test these millions and millions of people for drugs.

We would have to set up tens of thousands of labs and staff. It could cost billions. Oh those "fiscally conservative Republicans". Always "thinking".

Hatch, the gift that keeps on giving.