Republican and Religious control of education

[JakeStarkey]

So, Sitarro, you were the guy who would not accept responsibility and had an authority-figure issue. Sounds like you still do.

OK, having said that, problems do exist. (1) I am one who fights against the high-stakes testing, that teaches students testing strategies and leaves little time for more important matters. (2) We have far too many parents who will not accept the primary responsibility for the kids' education. (3) Folks like you want to be part of the problem not the solution, Sitarro.

Much of the educational theory of the last 30 years has been biased, research programmed to meet that bias, and then passed off as objective findings.

Fact: Piaget is dead, not wrong. Children begin conceptualizing at various ages and stages, thus not one pedagogy fits all.

Fact: Rote learning does have its place in education. Example: A spec ed math teacher and "teach" the students to "learn" the prime numbers to, say, 31 but creating a marching cadence that imprints those numbers into their mind. The kids may not know "why" they are prime but they know "which" are prime to certain level. The sheer act of memorization at the level has tremendous benefits for those kids' self-confidence.

We have a long way to go, and you don't help with your grieved rambling. Sitarro, run your mouth because that's your right, but start offering input and not crap.

 

[jillian]

I am an imbecile

now it's fixed.

 

[Carol]

So, Sitarro, you were the guy who would not accept responsibility and had an authority-figure issue. Sounds like you still do.

OK, having said that, problems do exist. (1) I am one who fights against the high-stakes testing, that teaches students testing strategies and leaves little time for more important matters. (2) We have far too many parents who will not accept the primary responsibility for the kids' education. (3) Folks like you want to be part of the problem not the solution, Sitarro.

Much of the educational theory of the last 30 years has been biased, research programmed to meet that bias, and then passed off as objective findings.

Fact: Piaget is dead, not wrong. Children begin conceptualizing at various ages and stages, thus not one pedagogy fits all.

Fact: Rote learning does have its place in education. Example: A spec ed math teacher and "teach" the students to "learn" the prime numbers to, say, 31 but creating a marching cadence that imprints those numbers into their mind. The kids may not know "why" they are prime but they know "which" are prime to certain level. The sheer act of memorization at the level has tremendous benefits for those kids' self-confidence.

We have a long way to go, and you don't help with your grieved rambling. Sitarro, run your mouth because that's your right, but start offering input and not crap.

I have not read all the replies, because I am so damned angry about this tread being moved to the conspiracy thread, I can not see strait

JakeStarkey, you have made an excellent argument about changes in education, and this thread should be in the education forum, where it was originally. This moving of threads to the conspiracy forum is disrespectful and one of the worst offenses to freedom of speech I have seen. What we are talking about here is one of the most important things we could discuss because it is all about what happens to our own children and the nation as a whole. I will strongly disagree that our troubles today are that parents don't care. If they appear to not care that is because they have been socialized to not care, and is going on in these forums is a good example of why people appear to not care. Here we can chose to empower each other, and we show the world how democracy works, but instead we have tyranny, disrespect preventing any serious discussion of education. I am so thankful I did not make the mistake of donating! Why would anyone want to donate to this tyranical control over what we can discuss in forums labelled for the subject understand discussion?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Carol, I disagree with your last statement. The mods can do as they please, and, no, the site is not democratic.

But for the most part, the overwhelming part, they allow free play and expression of ideas, even from the morons. Now that is democratic!

That is a far right wing does attempt to capture education, recreate an alternative reality with new definitions (Joe McCarthy was a hero, the middle passage of the Triangular Trade really is not all that important, and so forth) is real. The nice point about it all is that most college and public education teachers are aware of the effort and successfully combat it.

 

[cad]

Carol, I disagree with your last statement. The mods can do as they please, and, no, the site is not democratic.

But for the most part, the overwhelming part, they allow free play and expression of ideas, even from the morons. Now that is democratic!

That is a far right wing does attempt to capture education, recreate an alternative reality with new definitions (Joe McCarthy was a hero, the middle passage of the Triangular Trade really is not all that important, and so forth) is real. The nice point about it all is that most college and public education teachers are aware of the effort and successfully combat i
t.

do you really believe our education system leans too far RIGHT?

I was listening to Dennis prager this morning and he suggested that if you asked students today do you think america is the last best hope for freedom in the world, very few would say yes. if you asked that question 50 years ago, many more would have said yes.

do you agree or disagree with mr prager?

 

[AllieBaba]

No, our education system isn't right leaning at all. It's just more bloviating and outright lies being spread by the fascist left so they can justify trampling all over the rights of people whose politics they don't approve of, and so they can exert even more power over America's children.

What pukes they are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I like Dennis a lot, and I agree with him quite a bit. Here in our little corner of the world, yes, the kids would agree with America is the last, best, and only hope in the world. What kids agree with in Dallas or Shreveport or Little Rock, I do not know, and I would like to see Dennis's evidence for his comment.

Cad, I will tell you something I don't like about our society today. Everybody of a certain age here will tell you that when they were young that Mom and Dad said, "We want you to be a success, but first we want you to be a decent person." I don't hear that today from the teenagers and twenty and thirty somethings. That is sad and my generation missed passing something on that is very important.

 

[cad]

thank you for that social commentary. do you believe the decline of the influence of religion in our society has anything to do with that?

so do you believe that education leans too far right?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Religion per se , I don't think, fails to inform society as it did fifty years ago, though America today is the most religious and religiously free nation in the world. I doubt that's much of a reason for a more open society today compared to back then. The right would like to control public education, and it is certainly trying to, but I don't think education leans too far right or left.

 

[cad]

do you think it's irrelevant that the vast majority of teacher's union money goes to support democratic candidates?

 

[JakeStarkey]

What's the context, cad, that teachers unionize to protect themselves from administration's whims?

 

[cad]

What's the context, cad, that teachers unionize to protect themselves from administration's whims?

from my experience, the education system leans to the left. you don't think it does. i think this supports my theory, but it by no means proves it. that is the context.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't know how that supports any theory. Public education is rural Texas is right of center, I would believe, and left of center in the cities. Same same for Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, in my opinion. Other than that, I really don't know.

 

[Samson]

What's the context, cad, that teachers unionize to protect themselves from administration's whims?

from my experience, the education system leans to the left. you don't think it does. i think this supports my theory, but it by no means proves it. that is the context.

See, when you say "The Education System," then you automatically disqualify your answer, and lose credability: In the USA, there is no one system.

Indeed, with the exception of Hawaii, there is no "one" education system in any state.

Saying the "Education System" leans to the left, is like living in Nancy Pelosi's Congressional District, and claiming that, based on your experience, the entire Nation leans toward the left.

However, we must remember, schools are simply another, and often the largest government supported entities in any community: As teachers are government employees, it would be naive to believe that most don't believe in the social benefits of government services.

 

[AllieBaba]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA]YouTube - Chris Christie tells teacher she doesn't have to teach[/ame]

There is an education system in this country. Schools must meet state and federal standards, and they receive $$ from both state and federal governments.

The American Federation of Teachers, National Education System and other groups also prove the existence of a nation-wide "system".

 

[Samson]

YouTube - Chris Christie tells teacher she doesn't have to teach

There is an education system in this country. Schools must meet state and federal standards, and they receive $$ from both state and federal governments.

The American Federation of Teachers, National Education System and other groups also prove the existence of a nation-wide "system".

You obviously don't know what your talking about.

With the exception of Hawaii, school systems are administered LOCALLY, and most of their money is raised LOCALLY, Teachers are Licenced by STATES, Federal funding for GRANTS is given individually and to STATES.

It is quite clear, that if there was A School System, there would not be Local and State and Federal authority over it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Spare me your condescending hogwash, Samson.

We have a US Dept. of Education.
We have an education system.

You can quibble over nonsense all you like and fiddle around with the particulars, but you know exactly what people are referring to when they say "education system" and you are just giving in to your petty tendency to nitpick minutia that really doesn't matter one way or another when you decide to make a big issue over whether or not the US has an education system.

We do. Get over it.

 

[cad]

so what exactly does the DOE, with its nearly $50 billion budget do?

if all things education are strictly local, who gives a shit about what some school board in texas is doing? my kids don't go to school in texas

 

[AllieBaba]

Every now and then Samson feels the need to get serious, which generally means boring the shit out of everyone with the assertion of his superior intellect via ridiculous trivia that means nothing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

so what exactly does the DOE, with its nearly $50 billion budget do?

if all things education are strictly local, who gives a shit about what some school board in texas is doing? my kids don't go to school in texas

Then, cad, what are you worried about? Do you have a local problem, or a bone to pick with the DOE?