Reporting On European Gun Crime

[Swagger]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but recently the international media seems to be doubling their efforts on focusing on gun-related violence in Europe.

Anti-gun legislation proponents in America often cite Switzerland as an example of where common sense and gun ownership co-exist in almost perfect harmony.

And now the international media is reporting on seemingly all crimes in Europe - especially Switzerland - that involve firearms. Is this a coincidence? I don't think so. I think that the international media is thrusting these events into the face of pro-gun Americans in a concerted effort to counter their using gun ownership in Switzerland as example of responsible gun ownership.

Did the American and international media thrust these events onto their front pages before the proposed restrictions on "assault weapons" prior to the Sandy Hook tragedy?

 

[Circe]

I think it's all the gun smuggling via Serbia. I've read there are getting to be more and more guns in Europe; they'll be like us soon, if they don't watch out.

 

[Swagger]

True. The majority of illegal firearms used in European cities originate in the Balkans, mostly as a result of corrupt officials being in charge of arms dumps following the end of hostilities in the former Yugoslavia.

But what I'm getting at is the sudden interest in Switzerland, where the majority of legally-held firearms are those given to militia members after they've completed their national service. It's almost as though the media are deliberately countering the pro-gun camp in the U.S. (who often cite Switzerland when their position's being attacked) by saying 'hey, things aren't peachy in the Alps as you make out'. But why? And apart from selling news (though they seem to have ignored European gun crime stats prior to Sandy Hook), to what end?

 

[Circe]

But what I'm getting at is the sudden interest in Switzerland, where the majority of legally-held firearms are those given to militia members after they've completed their national service.

Well, if it bleeds, it leads! If Swiss crazies have started shooting up their schools and places of business, I don't think you can expect the news media to ignore that!

Who knows, maybe the Swiss teens have been playing American shooter video games and are locked into the "kill, kill, kill" mode like our teens are. Used to be, teen schizophrenics had lots of ways to be crazy: they could act like Napoleon, they could believe they were Jesus: now they just get big guns and shoot lots of people.

It's a fad affecting psychos, I think.

 

[PaulS1950]

Circe, One shooting of one person in the last 10 years in Switzerland is hardly an event that is worthy of interntional news when there are 10s of more murders per day in Chicago than Switzerland has had in the last twenty years. I know that guns scare you but it is OK because there are two million people each year that use their guns to keep you safe - civilians - just like you and I who own guns and stop criminals from doing harm. You are safe.

 

[Circe]

Circe, One shooting of one person in the last 10 years in Switzerland is hardly an event that is worthy of interntional news when there are 10s of more murders per day in Chicago than Switzerland has had in the last twenty years. I know that guns scare you but it is OK because there are two million people each year that use their guns to keep you safe - civilians - just like you and I who own guns and stop criminals from doing harm. You are safe.

Nonsense. No one is safe from the gun nuts. Just this week a neighbor called the cops on a gun nut who had repeatedly come out of his trailer in the forest about 11:30 at night with the trailer completely dark and shot his guns off the porch, many shots. The cops were pretty worried about going down there, but they did, and carried him off. Brave men.

And even *I* know there has been a lot more gun crime in Switzerland than what you say!!

 

[PaulS1950]

Circe, One shooting of one person in the last 10 years in Switzerland is hardly an event that is worthy of interntional news when there are 10s of more murders per day in Chicago than Switzerland has had in the last twenty years. I know that guns scare you but it is OK because there are two million people each year that use their guns to keep you safe - civilians - just like you and I who own guns and stop criminals from doing harm. You are safe.

Nonsense. No one is safe from the gun nuts. Just this week a neighbor called the cops on a gun nut who had repeatedly come out of his trailer in the forest about 11:30 at night with the trailer completely dark and shot his guns off the porch, many shots. The cops were pretty worried about going down there, but they did, and carried him off. Brave men.

And even *I* know there has been a lot more gun crime in Switzerland than what you say!!

I Don't know any more about the circumstances with your neighbor than you tell me and Most of what you say is out of fear.

Show me the statistics about gun crime in Switzerland since you say you "know there has been a lot more gun crime in Switzerland than what I say!!"

Your fear colors your whole life and I truly feel sorry for you. No one should choose to live that way.

 

[Underhill]

True. The majority of illegal firearms used in European cities originate in the Balkans, mostly as a result of corrupt officials being in charge of arms dumps following the end of hostilities in the former Yugoslavia.

But what I'm getting at is the sudden interest in Switzerland, where the majority of legally-held firearms are those given to militia members after they've completed their national service. It's almost as though the media are deliberately countering the pro-gun camp in the U.S. (who often cite Switzerland when their position's being attacked) by saying 'hey, things aren't peachy in the Alps as you make out'. But why? And apart from selling news (though they seem to have ignored European gun crime stats prior to Sandy Hook), to what end?

I don't know. But these comparisons are always a bit sketchy to begin with. While the Swiss are gun owners, they are not unregulated as some have tried to claim in various discussions with me.

They have more regulations than we do by a wide margin.

 

[GHook93]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but recently the international media seems to be doubling their efforts on focusing on gun-related violence in Europe.

Anti-gun legislation proponents in America often cite Switzerland as an example of where common sense and gun ownership co-exist in almost perfect harmony.

And now the international media is reporting on seemingly all crimes in Europe - especially Switzerland - that involve firearms. Is this a coincidence? I don't think so. I think that the international media is thrusting these events into the face of pro-gun Americans in a concerted effort to counter their using gun ownership in Switzerland as example of responsible gun ownership.

Did the American and international media thrust these events onto their front pages before the proposed restrictions on "assault weapons" prior to the Sandy Hook tragedy?

Can you be specific Schwag?

 

[PaulS1950]

Switzerland and it's 'gun culture' is very similar to the American culture just a few decades ago - before the news began vilifying guns.

"The Wall Street Journal Europe
June 4, 1999 Stephen P. Halbrook

In 1994, when the U.S. Congress debated whether to ban "assault weapons," a talk show host asked then-Senator Bill Bradley (New Jersey), a sponsor of the ban, whether guns cause crime. The host noted that, in Switzerland, all males are issued assault rifles for militia service and keep them at home, yet little crime exists there. Sen. Bradley responded that the Swiss "are pretty dull."

For those who think that target shooting is more fun than golf, however, Switzerland is anything but "dull." By car or train, you see shooting ranges everywhere, but few golf courses. If there is a Schuetzenfest (shooting festival) in town, you will find rifles slung on hat racks in restaurants, and you will encounter men and women, old and young, walking, biking and taking the tram with rifles over their shoulders, to and from the range. They stroll right past the police station and no one bats an eye. (Try this in the U.S., and a SWAT Team might do you in.)

Tourists--especially those from Japan, where guns are banned to all but the police--think it's a revolution. But shooting is the national sport, and the backbone of the national defense as well. More per capita firepower exists in Switzerland than in any other place in the world, yet it is one of the safest places to be.

According to the U.N. International Study on Firearm Regulation, England's 1994 homicide rate was 1.4 (9% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 116, per 100,000 population. In the United States, the homicide rate was 9.0 (70% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 234, per 100,000. England has strict gun control laws, ergo, the homicide rate is lower than in the U.S. However, such comparisons can be dangerous: In 1900, when England had no gun controls, the homicide rate was only 1.0 per 100,000.

Moreover, using data through 1996, the U.S. Department of Justice study "Crime and Justice" concluded that in England the robbery rate was 1.4 times higher, the assault rate was 2.3 times higher, and the burglary rate was 1.7 times higher than in the U.S. This suggests that lawfully armed citizens in the U.S. deter such crimes. Only the murder and rape rates in the U.S. were higher than in England. The small number of violent predators who commit most of these crimes in the U.S. have little trouble arming themselves unlawfully.

The U.N. study omits mention of Switzerland, which is awash in guns and has substantially lower murder and robbery rates than England, where most guns are banned.

Here are the figures: The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that in 1997 there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms. With its population of seven million (including 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, resulting in a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these crimes were committed by non-resident foreigners, whom locals call "criminal tourists."

Sometimes, the data sound too good to be true. In 1993, not a single armed robbery was reported in Geneva. No one seems to be looking at the Swiss example in the U.S., however.

Congress is stampeding to pass additional firearm restrictions in response to the events of April 20, when two students used guns and bombs to murder a dozen classmates and a teacher in Littleton, Colorado.

Yet in 1996, a man who legally owned guns under England's strict regulations went on a rampage, murdering 16 children and a teacher in Dunblane, Scotland. Parliament then banned all handguns and most rifles.

But there have been no school massacres in Switzerland, where guns and kids mix freely. At shooting matches, bicycles aplenty are parked outside. Inside the firing shelter, the competitors pay 12-year-olds tips to keep score. The 16-year-olds shoot rifles with men and women of all ages. In fact, the tourist brochure, "Zurich News" recommends September's Knabenschiessen (boy's shooting contest) as a must-see: "The oldest Zurich tradition consists of a shooting contest at the Albisguetli (range) for 12 to 16 year-old boys and girls and a colorful three-day fun-fair." The event has been held since 1657, and attracts thousands of teenage participants and spectators.

While many shoot for sport, all males aged 20 to 42 are required by militia system regulation to keep rifles and/or pistols at home. In addition, gun shops abound. Yet firearms are rarely used in crime.

Homicide is tied to a willingness to resort to violence, not the mere presence of guns. The prevalence of firearms in the home and the participation of youth in shooting matches bind youth to adults and discourages a generation gap.

By contrast, homicide rates are highest in the underdeveloped countries, many of which ban private firearm possession. In some, private murder does not compare to the genocidal murder committed by governments against their unarmed subjects.

In America, firearms take on a sinister reputation from the nightly news and violent movies. But in Switzerland, firearms symbolize a wholesome, community activity. The typical weekend shooting festival brings out the entire family. Beside the range is a huge tent where scores or hundreds of people are eating, drinking, and socializing. With cantonal and rifle club banners fluttering in the wind, the melody of rifle fire blends with Alpine music and cow bells.

Since its founding in 1291, Switzerland has depended on an armed populace for its defense. William Tell used a crossbow not only to shoot the apple from his son's head, but also to kill the tyrant Gessler. For centuries, the cantonal republic defeated the powerful armies of the European monarchs. Machiavelli wrote in 1532: "The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom."

This coincidence has not escaped the notice of those who oppose liberty.

Monarchist philosopher Jean Bodin, writing in 1606, denounced free speech and arms possession by commoners. Subjects must be disarmed to prevent democratic sedition, he said. The Swiss proved, Bodin wrongly averred, that arms bearing was "the cause of an infinite number of murders."

The Swiss militia model, however, preserved democracy and held Europe's despots at bay. In fact, it inspired the rebellious American colonists.

John Adams praised the democratic Swiss Cantons, where every man was entitled to vote on laws and to bear arms. Patrick Henry, another American Founding Father, lauded the Swiss for maintaining their independence without "a mighty and splendid President" or a standing army.

The Swiss influence is clear in the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Today, it has become fashionable to hate this orphan of the Bill of Rights.

However, a quick glance at history shows that tyrannical governments kill far more than do private criminals. But first, governments must disarm their victims. In 1933, the

Nazis seized power via massive search-and-seizure operations for firearms against "Communists," i.e., all political opponents. In 1938, during the Night of the Broken Glass, they disarmed the Jews. When the Nazis occupied Europe in 1939-41, they proclaimed the death penalty for any person who failed to surrender all firearms within 24 hours.

There may be various reasons why the Nazis did not invade Switzerland, but one of those reasons is that every Swiss man had a rifle at home.

For this we have no better record than the Nazi invasion plans, which stated that, because of the Swiss shooting skills, Switzerland would be difficult to conquer and pacify.

European countries occupied by the Nazis had strict gun controls before the war, and the registration lists facilitated confiscation of firearms and the execution of their owners.

By being able to keep out of both world wars in part through the dissuasive factor of an armed populace, Switzerland demonstrates that civilian firearm possession may prevent large numbers of deaths and even genocide. The Holocaust never came to Switzerland, the Jewish population of which was armed just like their fellow citizens. In the rest of Europe, what if there had been not just one, but two, three, or many Warsaw Ghetto Uprisings?

Traditionally, the Swiss Cantons had few firearm regulations. The first federal firearms law was recently enacted. Certain firearm purchases require a permit, and others do not. On retirement, every soldier may keep his rifle or pistol. Surplus assault rifles may be purchased by any Swiss citizen from the Military Department.

The bottom line is one of attitude. Populations with training in civic virtue, though armed, do not experience sensational massacres or high crime rates. Indeed, armed citizens deter crime. Switzerland fits this mold. Similarly, America's lawful "gun culture" is peaceful. Sadly, some of its subcultures are not.

From The Wall Street Journal Europe"

 

[Underhill]

Switzerland and it's 'gun culture' is very similar to the American culture just a few decades ago - before the news began vilifying guns.

Sure, except that they have many more gun regulations than we did, or do. In fact, the NRA is fighting gun legislation very similar to what Switzerland has currently.


"To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disqualified (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.

To buy a gun from an individual, no permit is needed, but the seller is expected to establish a reasonable certainty that the purchaser will fulfill the above-mentioned conditions (usually done through a Criminal Records Bureau check). The participants in such a transaction are required to prepare a written contract detailing the identities of both vendor and purchaser, the weapon's type, manufacturer, and serial number. The law requires the written contract to be kept for ten years by the buyer and seller. The seller is also required to see some official ID from the purchaser, for such sales are only allowed to Swiss nationals and foreigners with a valid residence permit, with the exception of those foreigners that come from certain countries (Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Albania, Algeria), to whom such sales are not allowed even if they do have a residence permit. Foreigners without a residence permit must ask for Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit).

After turning 18, any individual can buy singleshot or semiautomatic long arms (breech-loading or muzzle-loading) without a permit (so-called "free arms").[citation needed] Likewise, members of a recognized rifle association do not need a buying permit for purchasing antique repeaters, and hunters do not need one for buying typical hunting rifles.

Basically, the sale of automatic firearms, selective fire weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors ("silencers") is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). The purchase of such items is however legal with a special permit issued by cantonal police. The issuance of such a permit requires additional requirements to be met, e.g. the possession of a specific gun locker."

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

 

[PaulS1950]

The only time a permit is required in Switzerland is to purchase a hand gun. Guns in general, rifles, shotguns, semi-auto carbines are easily purchased by anyone over 18.
When you leave military service you are able to keep your service rifle - How would you like all those who serve in the military having M4s and M16s ? Those are fully auto carbines and are true "assault weapons", unlike the AR15s and deivitives.

The Swiss also have many firing ranges throughout their country - more gun ranges than golf courses or other recreational parks. Shooting is their national sport.