"Report: Ukrainian and DNC connection in 2016 election getting larger in scope"

1. How do you know Trump wanted a "sham" investigation?

Because everyone already told him there was nothing to it.

My point was that in 2014 they desperately needed military aid, and Obama sent "blankets", and in 2019 its a sniper war. So Dr. Hill's testimony that the delay in funding affected US national security is total bullshit.

In 2014, it wasn't justified... by 2019, it was.

2. When Obama got out of his lane the GOP took him to court, when Trump gets outside of his lane he gets impeached.

Obama didn't break any laws...

3. What crime are you accusing Trump of?

Obstruction of Justice
Abuse of Power
Bribery
Extortion
Soliciting aid from a foreign power in an Election

We've been over this.

4. We seem to agree that if Barr finds wrongdoing regarding Burisma, fine, if he finds no wrongdoing, fine.

I wouldn't trust anything Barr says at this point. He's thoroughly corrupt.

Barr is corrupt, but the FBI wasn't, desptie damning texts and evidence. I think I see a pattern here.

LEMMING
 
The Ukranians didn't know money was being withheld because they weren't doing investigations. That is a fact. You guys just don't like it because it doesn't fit the narrative you are trying to sell.

Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze in July, Says Ex-Top Official in Kyiv

Ukraine’s government learned of the military aid freeze during the Trump administration’s pressure campaign — and tried to keep that knowledge from going public, an ex-deputy foreign minister said.

KYIV, Ukraine — As deputy foreign minister, it was Olena Zerkal’s job to read incoming diplomatic cables from embassies around the world. One from Washington caught her eye back in July, she recalled: It said the Trump administration had frozen military aid for Ukraine.

“We had this information,” Ms. Zerkal said in an interview. “It was definitely mentioned there were some issues.”

The timing of when Ukraine knew of the hold on the military aid is a critical question in the impeachment hearings in Congress. Democrats are trying to build a case that President Trump pressured President Volodymyr Zelensky by withholding the aid and a White House meeting — at the same time he was pressing for a public announcement that Ukraine would investigate his political rivals.

In the interview, Ms. Zerkal, who said she resigned from her post last week to protest her government’s back channel diplomacy with both the Trump administration last summer and Russia this fall, provided an insider’s account of when senior officials in Kyiv learned of the freeze, and how they tried to keep the information from becoming public.

Her account is backed by Laura K. Cooper, the American deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, who said in Congressional testimony during the impeachment inquiry that Ukrainian diplomats knew about the aid freeze at least by July 25, when they began to question United States officials about it.



YOu can all stop lying now. Trump held up aid, shook them down for investigations.

LOL...I guess you continue to believe hearsay and second hand information and ignore Zelinsky himself. I might also add, no investigatiions were started so they must not have been pressured too much.

You are a good little lemming.


Zelensky knew about the military money being withheld in July... and he's still waiting for ALL of it... about 14% of money STILL hasn't been sent, about 30 million.

And OF COURSE Zelensky would not go against Swamp critter Trump, hIs Country desperately needs all the money....

We've got phone calls from the Ukraine diplomats calling our diplomats on the aid
The Democrats launched their investigation at the end of Sept. The Ukrainians starting investigations into Burisma and possibly the interference into our 2016 election, which Democrats supposedly cared so much about, in early Oct. Trump released aid on Sept. 11th. Not sure how that implies that aid was contigent upon investigations.

This is where you are confused.

Here's the timeline

July- Trump withholds the aid.
July 25 - Trump calls Zelensky and tries to shake him down
August- the Whistleblower reports this crime.
September- Trump realizes he's been caught, and releases the aid.

December- Trump gets impeached....

You are the one that is confused. You are reading a lot into the phone call for starters. I disagree that that was "a shake down". Also, if they were being bribed, why didn't they start the investigations right after the phone call and they did they start the investigations AFTER receiving the aid. That makes no sense.

money asking about why it has not been released and when will it be released...in late July 2019, that's simply a fact!

AND YES the Ukraine reopened an investigation in to Burisma/Biden and MADE the announcement in public, only not on a CNN interview as initially planned before the whistleblower...

we have several Russian sympathizer trolls who post here on the site that started threads on this announcement....

Inside Ukraine’s ‘Audit’ of Hunter Biden Company Investigation

Ukrainian prosecutors are reviewing their investigation into Burisma, the energy company where Hunter Biden worked

The Democrats launched their investigation at the end of Sept. The Ukrainians starting investigations into Burisma and possibly the interference into our 2016 election, which Democrats supposedly cared so much about, in early Oct. Trump released aid on Sept. 11th. Not sure how that implies that aid was contigent upon investigations. Why would they start the investigatiions after receiving the aid? That makes no sense Regardless, the investigations should be taking place anyway. Witholding aid is perfectly normal and legit for a variety of reasons, including asking another country to investigate corruption that may affect the US. The fact that one of the persons that could be implicated in the corruption may be a political opponent doesn't preclude that person from investigation. What is over the top ironic here is that Democrats are accusing Trump of exactly, and to a much lesser extent, what Biden and Obama did with the Ukraine. Biden said they were going to withold the money until we got what we wanted. It may have been a legitimate ask to fire Shoken, but, just like Trump, Biden would stand to benefit as well.
Dr. Hill. It would have been foolish to send weapons to Ukraine in 2014 when the country was still rife with corruption... Then the West cracked down and told them reform was required to get aid, and that is exactly what was done.

Again, we aren't talking about what kind of aid when. We are talking about Trump specifically withholding aid to get the Ukraine to launch investigations into his enemies... that's why he's being impeached.

1. Sending lethal US weapons like anti-tank Javelins, or not, to the Ukraine in 2014 had nothing to do with "corruption". That's when there was intense fighting in east Ukraine and they really needed the "lethal" aid. So Dr. Hill's whining that Trump withheld desperately needed aid for a few weeks and that affected US national security is total hypocritical bullshit. The US military is just fine with or without the Ukraine, thank you.
Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) - Wikipedia
Impeachment witness Fiona Hill once opposed sending lethal aid to Ukraine in fight with Russia

2. Burisma and other Ukrainian corporations are still corrupt as testified to by all of Schiff's witnesses. The point being that Trump withheld the aid while the Ukraine changed regimes from Poroshenko to Zelensky and implemented anti-corruption measures. Poroshenko went to Russia and took about $30b in stolen funds. The delay was totally justified.

3. There may have been many reasons to withhold the release of the $400m. How do you know it was ONLY for "announcing an investigation into Burisma"?
Explain to me how investigating a corrupt Burisma is an investigation into Joe Biden? I call total bullshit.
the delay WAS NOT justified...it broke the law.

the law states that the Pentagon had to investigate the Ukraine for any corruption before they could release the military aid money...
the aid appropriation was passed by congress and signed by the president in February 2019.

The Pentagon investigated all in the Ukraine and early June 2019 they finished their investigation and gave the clear, to release the aid.

Trump illegally stopped the release of the aid, without notifying congress and giving his reason...which also broke the law.
1. The delay did not break the law, bullshit. Funding is delayed all the time for many legitimate reasons
2. Agreed that the pentagon investigated the Ukraine and said it was ok
3. Agreed that the money was approved by congress and the president

The other pertinent "facts" that you are ignoring are:
1. The Ukraine just had elections and Poroshenko was out and Zelensky was in
2. Poroshenko went to Russia and took about $30 of Ukraiinaian funds
3. The Ukraine was changing administrations fro Poroshenko's guys to Zelensky's guys
4. Their "parliament" was revising laws to deter corruption,
5. Trump wanted the EU to kick-in more funding
6. Burisma and other corporations were still too powerful and corrupt, as testified to by Schiff's witnsses
7. Trump delayed the funding as long as he could without jeopardizing it, then released it
8. When he released it the new government was up and running.
once the money was cleared to be released in June by our Defense dept who by law required to investigate and make certain no new corruption was going to take the funds, he held it back and did not notify congress on the military aid being held back, nor did he give any legit reason for holding it back.... that was not legal.

The staff responsible for issuing the money in every single case of sending military aid to all countries by Congress and law that allocated it,

was pushed aside, and a Trump politico hired, took over....to hold the money back, illegally... because the steady state workers were going to follow legal procedure and release it....
---------------
Giuliani was working with the previous corrupt govt before Velensky won, trying to get dirt on Bidens... then when they lost, Giuliani had to start all over again....
---------------------
Burisma's owner is corrupt, I don't have much doubt on that... Ukraine should investigate him... the bullcrap was Trump telling Zelensky to investigate Bidens...INSTEAD of mentioning Burisma's corruption.

but also, they were not going to get any of the new military aid
------------------------
Trump using his personal campaign lawyer, Giuliani, and the two goon crooks, and a KGB schooled Ukrainian parliament guy, and a corrupt Russian sympathizer prosecutor, and another corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor and an oligarch awaiting extradition for money laundering in the the USA as his sources pushing this bull crap story that Joe Biden is corrupt, with alleged Burisma ledgers as proof is a bunch of corrupt Malarchy.... replacing our own diplomatic policy with Trump's personal gainful wishes, is a crock full of swamp goo. I wouldn't put my faith in it, that's for certain!

------------------------------

if the corruption in the Ukraine was his concern, he would have followed the law and agreement we have with the Ukraine, and used the DOJ, AG Barr to LEGALLY INVESTIGATE an American, overseas, with the prosecutor general in the Ukraine....

---------------------------------
If the president was legitimately investigate corruption in the Ukraine,

A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT of investigating the Bidens on CNN would NOT have been required, as it WAS, in order to get a well coveted meeting in DC....

--------------------------

HOW IN THE HECK is holding back military aid to Zelensky going to get The EU to donate more money? the Ukraine can't force them to give him more money? That's batsh*t crazy of an excuse....

And let me remind you, he never gave anyone an excuse, he never gave Congress an excuse.
not as if trump is GIVING excuses, the left will find whatever they wish and MAKE it their excuse.

you love cooking up trump conspiracies from loose links to vague stories and yet, the impeachment report says no laws broken, yet again, by trump. yet you keep pushing and 100% refuse to look into the activities of the left where we have proof and ACTUAL witnesses to say what happened. to that you're FAKE NEWS.
All public facts, available for everyone to read about, if they venture out of their own bubble of limited news.
 
These connections with Ukraine and not just any DemonRAT but the DNC itself is certainly getting more interesting, and will make excellent 2020 campaign TALKING POINTS for the Republicans!


You guys are trying too hard.
 
The Ukranians didn't know money was being withheld because they weren't doing investigations. That is a fact. You guys just don't like it because it doesn't fit the narrative you are trying to sell.

Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze in July, Says Ex-Top Official in Kyiv

Ukraine’s government learned of the military aid freeze during the Trump administration’s pressure campaign — and tried to keep that knowledge from going public, an ex-deputy foreign minister said.

KYIV, Ukraine — As deputy foreign minister, it was Olena Zerkal’s job to read incoming diplomatic cables from embassies around the world. One from Washington caught her eye back in July, she recalled: It said the Trump administration had frozen military aid for Ukraine.

“We had this information,” Ms. Zerkal said in an interview. “It was definitely mentioned there were some issues.”

The timing of when Ukraine knew of the hold on the military aid is a critical question in the impeachment hearings in Congress. Democrats are trying to build a case that President Trump pressured President Volodymyr Zelensky by withholding the aid and a White House meeting — at the same time he was pressing for a public announcement that Ukraine would investigate his political rivals.

In the interview, Ms. Zerkal, who said she resigned from her post last week to protest her government’s back channel diplomacy with both the Trump administration last summer and Russia this fall, provided an insider’s account of when senior officials in Kyiv learned of the freeze, and how they tried to keep the information from becoming public.

Her account is backed by Laura K. Cooper, the American deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, who said in Congressional testimony during the impeachment inquiry that Ukrainian diplomats knew about the aid freeze at least by July 25, when they began to question United States officials about it.



YOu can all stop lying now. Trump held up aid, shook them down for investigations.

LOL...I guess you continue to believe hearsay and second hand information and ignore Zelinsky himself. I might also add, no investigatiions were started so they must not have been pressured too much.

You are a good little lemming.


Zelensky knew about the military money being withheld in July... and he's still waiting for ALL of it... about 14% of money STILL hasn't been sent, about 30 million.

And OF COURSE Zelensky would not go against Swamp critter Trump, hIs Country desperately needs all the money....

We've got phone calls from the Ukraine diplomats calling our diplomats on the aid money asking about why it has not been released and when will it be released...in late July 2019, that's simply a fact!

AND YES the Ukraine reopened an investigation in to Burisma/Biden and MADE the announcement in public, only not on a CNN interview as initially planned before the whistleblower...

we have several Russian sympathizer trolls who post here on the site that started threads on this announcement....

Inside Ukraine’s ‘Audit’ of Hunter Biden Company Investigation

Ukrainian prosecutors are reviewing their investigation into Burisma, the energy company where Hunter Biden worked

The Democrats launched their investigation at the end of Sept. The Ukrainians starting investigations into Burisma and possibly the interference into our 2016 election, which Democrats supposedly cared so much about, in early Oct. Trump released aid on Sept. 11th. Not sure how that implies that aid was contigent upon investigations. Why would they start the investigatiions after receiving the aid? That makes no sense Regardless, the investigations should be taking place anyway. Witholding aid is perfectly normal and legit for a variety of reasons, including asking another country to investigate corruption that may affect the US. The fact that one of the persons that could be implicated in the corruption may be a political opponent doesn't preclude that person from investigation. What is over the top ironic here is that Democrats are accusing Trump of exactly, and to a much lesser extent, what Biden and Obama did with the Ukraine. Biden said they were going to withold the money until we got what we wanted. It may have been a legitimate ask to fire Shoken, but, just like Trump, Biden would stand to benefit as well.
The whistleblower complaint was made known to congress on Sept 10, the admin then allegedly released the aid on the 11th, the day after their cheating plot was exposed.... but they still held it back until Sept 26th, and $30 million shy of the bill passed. The money had to be appropriated before the end of the fiscal year Sept 30....

Congress found out the executive branch held back the 30 million of it, scrambled and passed an Extension Bill, so that the money could still go to the Ukrainians and they could still get the $30 million after the 9/30/2019 fiscal cut off.

The admin was CAUGHT in their personal and political quid pro quo, the Ukrainian president had not hired their own head prosecutor General yet, from their own party and gotten rid of the corrupt prosecutor from the previous admin/president is why it was postponed, plus Velensky really did not want to get drawn in to US Domestic politics.... but was caught between a rock and a hard place.

Velensky got most of the money, due to the whistleblower complaint, but he still needed his coveted and needed DC meeting, to give Ukraine strength going in to the scheduled meetings coming up with Putin to resolve the Crimea, southern Ukraine war with them....

The reopening of an investigation in to Burisma's owner for corruption was announced likely to appease Trump, so they could get their needed D.C. meeting and public support of the USA.

which they still have not gotten from President Trump.
 
Trump held up the money until Z made an "announcement of an investigation". No smear required.
Then Trump released the money, and Z never made an announcement. Z probably didn't know the money was being held up?!
I'm saying that Trump had a winning hand and misplayed it badly.
He had many many good reasons to withhold the money, and get an investigation, but he couldn't resist his instincts to push the deal himself.

He released the money because he got caught. It's like he robbed the bank, heard the sirens, dropped the bag of money.... and ran away... but he still tried to rob the bank.

You are the one that is confused. You are reading a lot into the phone call for starters. I disagree that that was "a shake down". Also, if they were being bribed, why didn't they start the investigations right after the phone call and they did they start the investigations AFTER receiving the aid. That makes no sense.

Nice country you got here, Zelinsky, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

I'm reading what the phone call clearly says.... in the context of Rudy the Bagman shaking down everyone he ran into over there. And that his own guys were concerned about what he was doing.

But there's a simple enough solution... Let's get Trump, Bolton, Guiliani, Mulvaney, Pompeo and Barr all under oath, along with everyone in that room that heard the actual call. Put every last one of them under oath.

Or as one of my ex-bosses used to say, "Get all the liars into a room and see who is telling the truth."
 
brothers and sisters: if Trump isn't impeached, any future President will feel empowered to resist an investigation into their own wrongdoing, malfeasance, or corruption, and the result will be a nation at far greater risk of all three.
 

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