Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Bonnie, Jun 1, 2006.
June 1st, 2006
So Murtha is worse than McCarthy, for vividly describing the supposed atrocities committed by Marines at My Lai? McCarthy meanwhile put the nation into a frenzy on baseless claims and put the United States Army on trial. But that can be forgiven because he did not pursue a Marine?
I said this before in another thread: in a way Murtha is helping the Marines. By purging those who can not follow proper behavior, he is preserving the integrity of the corps. If the Marines are going to kill innocent civilians they are harming the United States. Rather than criticizing those bold enough to come foreward, we should direct some attention to those--even Marines--who try to sweep events like Haditha under the rug.
If any of those Marines truly are guilty of these allegations yes they should be dealt with. Do you seriously think Murtha's motives are pure intent though? Additionally he seems to be misrepresenting the facts which if true does in fact put our marines in jeopardy given the nature of the enemy's quick reflex to shoot first and always.
Good article Bonnie, glad you posted it.
Points out how, through time, somethings DON'T change, and some will say, and do, ANYTHING, to take advantage of a sad situation.
Sadder yet, is that we, the people of this great country, seem to be taken in by people like these, time, and time again.
There are those, some on this board, that take every opportunity to exploit stories where American soldiers are REPORTED to have committed some terrible deed. Once found innocent of such accusations, you never hear from them again, no retractions, nothing, just like it didn't happen.
The damage is done, and they just go about spreading lies, and casting doubt on others.
You could be right about a mixed motive. The article you posted believes Murtha wanted to shift attention away from a scandal...perhaps so, but I will just concede that the motive is in question. None the less, I do not think Murtha should be criticized for calling out fellow Marines. A blanket of secrecy will not help promote good conduct among troops. That is my big beef with the article.
I see what you are saying, but where is the line between extorting an event and respectfully using an event to make changes for the better?
I am not saying Murtha has done either of the above, I am merely throwing the question out there.
For example: My Lai. If one says: "look at this horrible slaughter...perhaps this war is having a profound mental impact on our soldiers and is really turning ugly. Maybe we should question being in Vietnam." Is that person extorting the tragedy...or recognizing a more serious problem?
While the murdered Iraqis are the obvious victims of Haditha, our soldiers are obviously suffering from some sort of mental problem. It could have just been an idiot who decided to kill some Iraqis, but it is more likely that these soldiers are suffering severe mental duress that made them act so violently.
So if I were to say that Haditha is an example of all that is wrong with war and a reason we should not be in Iraq...am I taking advantage of a sad situation, or is it a more respectful observation?
I would say that is your position no matter what the outcome of this war would be, you believe war is probably never the way to go. I believe some wars are justified, even necessary, some are not, and war should always be the last resort.
Regarding Murtha, forgetting his politcal motivations in exploiting this story( generally par for the course) the only real problem I have is his misrepresentation of the facts in what is already an extremely volatile situation for all our soldiers there. What Murtha is actually achieving for all of this is creating bad publicity for all the good marines out there... as the Haditha situation is already being investigated with proper action to follow whatever that may be, I fail to see the positive that can come from Murtha's actions?
on a different subject.... you live in NJ and are a White Sox fan??? Shame tisk tisk
My problem with Murtha is not his exploitation of the story; I have come to expect that sort of thing from politicians. I am appalled at his misrepresentation of the facts (particularly before all the facts are known) and his conviction of the Marines involved before a courtsmartial has even occured. That to me is what makes Murtha's actions so reprhensible.
If the Marines are guilty abd convicted through due process of murdering innocent civilians (as I have said before) then they should receive the maximum sentence allowed. Murtha, of all people, should understand the impact of his statements not only within the enemy camp but also on the prejudice that could be generated in those that have to try these Marines in court.
I see your points. There are certain ways to bring attention to a matter like this. Murtha's way of pulling Haditha under the spotlight might have been too brash. I feel sort of as if his face is attatched to the event. But in the end, I am glad it has been given attention and I think that overall Murtha did the right thing.
Regarding the bad publicity, it will be the Marines' job to help soldiers learn from this. Some Iraqi's will lose faith in America because of an incident like this, and as you say, soldiers lives are put at risk when Iraqis learn of Haditha. We must promote mental care for soldiers...not just when they come home, but when they are on the front lines. We have to let them know that war crimes are unacceptable and will result in admonishment. Hopefully some positives will come from this, so that the bad publicity will give way to a better Marine corps.
Yep...and I am proud of it
I grew up in a near suburb of Chicago and I was taught by my father at a very young age to love the Sox. I moved to New Jersey when I was in high school and I go to college there now. I am surrounded by Yankee fans They are ok I guess, but the constant talk of 26 championships get tiresome though! (I am just a bit jealous)
Oh I hate the Yankees (Skankees) as well. Im a Die hard Mets fan, you know if both the Mets and Sox keep playing they way they are it may be they will both be in the Series.
So you go to college in NJ....Rutgers or Montclair?
I just finished my freshman year at Rutgers, the coolest school in the state!
A few of my friends are Met fans...when it comes to talking baseball, Met fans are all around more decent than Yankee fans.
I think the Mets can win the NL. If you guys end up meeting the Sox in the World Series, I might have to send some trash talk to your message box!
Are you a New Jerseyan (sp?) yourself?
Separate names with a comma.