Reminder: The house passed the 2012 budget 12 weeks ago

[Quantum Windbag]

What budget have the Dems put forth again?

The problem isn't a shortage of budgets. Obama produced a budget, House Democrats introduced a budget, the House Progressive Caucus produced a budget, Kent Conrad produced a budget. The challenge, as we've seen, is finding the mix of these proposals that can pass.

But doesn't it sound so much better to keep saying, Obama never produced a budget?

Funny, that another poster said, "reform isn't ending Medicare". If you take Medicare and turn it into a "voucher" program. Then it's not Medicare, Medicare is ended, it's a "voucher" program. I just don't get it.

Turning Medicare into a premium support ala Breaux Thomas is ending Medicare, but Obamacare is not taking over health care.

 

[JRK]

obama care has not begun, you have no idea what itwill do to our medical care
I can tell you that My ins has went up twice

As far as Vouchers go
your making an assumption on another event that will not take place at this time

We know Obama care has greatly impacted both
Obamacare Cost | HHS Director Admits Double Counting Funds | The Daily Caller

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, no it wouldn't. It would change. Change and end are two entirely different things. Besides, you voted for "hope and change".

Given that this proposed change ultimately results in Medicare not existing anymore, change and end aren't two different things in this particular context.

Why the sensitivity to admitting this? I fully expected GOP politicians to tiptoe around the reality when they face angry constituents (as they have), but I've been surprised by the rightwing faithful's refusal to say out loud what they seek. You don't particularly care for the idea of a public health insurer (Medicare) paying doctors and hospitals to treat the elderly and offering a guaranteed benefit to beneficiaries. So you support eliminating the public health insurer and ditching the guaranteed benefit. But for some reason you're unable to acknowledge that this is ending Medicare.

It's very curious.

Yet, if do not change it, it will cease to exist for everyone before 2022,

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Where in this does it say that Medicare would end

It would help if you could sketch out for me your understanding of what Medicare it is. It seems to me the conceptual problem here is simply that you're not familiar with what Medicare is, what it's for, and what it does.

It is really quite simple.

Medicare is a Health Insurance Program for:

• People age 65 or older.
• People under age 65 with certain disabilities.
• People of all ages with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure requiring dialysis or a transplant).

Medicare.gov - Medicare Eligibility Tool (General Enrollment)

Look at that, not a single word about how it is paid, just who is covered. In other words, your definition and the government's definition do not coincide. Medicare will still cover the exact same people under Ryan's premium support system, therefore it will still be Medicare.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't understand.

12 weeks ago it was understood by everyone that the debt limit would increase?

Is that how this quote reads?

That quote by JRK (above here) is being took out of context
(...) yes

So the answer is yes? The Republicans knew the debt limit would have to increase 12 weeks ago when they approved a budget that included this increase?


Now there's an issue with increasing the debt limit?


Wow, kind of puts the whole thing in perspective doesn't it?

Since that budget did not pass the Senate I think you are going to have a hard time blaming this lifting of the ceiling on them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

obama care has not begun, you have no idea what itwill do to our medical care
I can tell you that My ins has went up twice

As far as Vouchers go
your making an assumption on another event that will not take place at this time

We know Obama care has greatly impacted both
Obamacare Cost | HHS Director Admits Double Counting Funds | The Daily Caller

We do know what it will do, increase costs.

Health care law won't rein in costs, study says - Washington Times

 

[Greenbeard]

i also understand that Medicare is a Govt program that pays for medical services for people who are for what ever reason with in that program as it is stated
It is my understanding that the Ryan proposal would shift that portion to the private sector while the Govt kept collecting the cash and with that cash as I see it, pay those companies to perform those functions

You've got the first bit right. Medicare is a health insurer, meaning it directly pays doctors and hospitals to provide services under a defined benefit that it offers. Ryan would eliminate the insurer and rescind the guaranteed benefit for seniors. The government doesn't pay private companies under his proposal, beyond perhaps retaining Medicare Advantage (which, in the absence of detailed language about the proposal, it isn't clear his proposal does after 2022); that's a managed care arrangement.

What his proposal does is forbid seniors from enrolling in Medicare after 2022. Instead, they need to buy their own private insurance. A subsidy designed not to keep pace with health costs will be available to most seniors to put toward whatever private plan they find. The advantages in provider networks, benefit design, financing and delivery system design enjoyed by Medicare will disappear when Medicare (the health insurance program) is phased out. What you're left with is just the private market, not Medicare. Still not entirely sure why those who think this is a preferable situation are so reticent to say it out loud.

So the answer is yes? The Republicans knew the debt limit would have to increase 12 weeks ago when they approved a budget that included this increase?

Of course. Their dream budget requires a $9 trillion increase in the debt ceiling over the next decade.

Look at that, not a single word about how it is paid, just who is covered. In other words, your definition and the government's definition do not coincide. Medicare will still cover the exact same people under Ryan's premium support system, therefore it will still be Medicare.

I suppose you missed "Medicare is a Health Insurance Program." That's my definition, as well. Thus a proposal to end that health insurance program is a proposal to end Medicare. This really isn't difficult.

And Ryan's plan doesn't use a premium support system. He uses Aaron and Reischauer's language because he doesn't like the politics of "vouchers," not because he's actually proposing premium support.