Remembering Vietnam

Discussion in 'History' started by georgephillip, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Gold Member Supporting Member

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    "Significant anniversaries are solemnly commemorated -- Japan’s attack on the U.S. naval base at Pearl Harbor, for example. Others are ignored, and we can often learn valuable lessons from them about what is likely to lie ahead. Right now, in fact.

    "At the moment, we are failing to commemorate the 50th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy’s decision to launch the most destructive and murderous act of aggression of the post-World War II period: the invasion of South Vietnam, later all of Indochina, leaving millions dead and four countries devastated, with casualties still mounting from the long-term effects of drenching South Vietnam with some of the most lethal carcinogens known, undertaken to destroy ground cover and food crops.

    "The prime target was South Vietnam.

    "The aggression later spread to the North, then to the remote peasant society of northern Laos, and finally to rural Cambodia, which was bombed at the stunning level of all allied air operations in the Pacific region during World War II, including the two atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    "In this, Henry Kissinger’s orders were being carried out -- 'anything that flies on anything that moves -- a call for genocide that is rare in the historical record. Little of this is remembered. Most was scarcely known beyond narrow circles of activists."

    ZCommunications |

    "By the time protest began to mount half a dozen years later, the respected Vietnam specialist and military historian Bernard Fall, no dove, forecast that 'Vietnam as a cultural and historic entity… is threatened with extinction...[as]...the countryside literally dies under the blows of the largest military machine ever unleashed on an area of this size...'”
     
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  2. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member

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    VietNam was a good idea but tragically mishandled by the democrat administration who thought they could create new rules for a new kind of war. It was LBJ not JFK that faked the "Gulf of Tonkin Crisis" to get Troops into VietNam when Most Americans were reluctant to send the Military on another democrat sponsored adventure. LBJ and his boys set the rules so that the US could win every battle and still lose the war. Just when LBJ's crazy plan for wearing out the enemy was beginning to show some promise after the US victory in the TET invasion, good old Walter Cronkite put on a helmet and flack jacket and pretended to be under fire for the cameras and pronounced the US hard won victory as a "stalemate". The NVA commander was astounded about the good news after his entire army was wiped out. Walter Cronkite gave him some breathing room and LBJ tearfully threw in the towel on National TV telling the world he had enough and would not run for another term just when America needed leadership. The left wing media managed to blame Nixon for the entire debacle after LBJ quit.
     
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  3. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Gold Member Supporting Member

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    The US invasion of South Vietnam was a good idea if you subscribe to George Kennan's view concerning "vague...and unrealistic objectives" and "idealistic slogans."

    "The basic viewpoint was outlined with admirable frankness in a major state paper of 1948 (PPS 23).

    "The author was one of the architects of the New World Order of the day, the chair of the State Department Policy Planning Staff, the respected statesman and scholar George Kennan, a moderate dove within the planning spectrum.

    "He observed that the central policy goal was to maintain the 'position of disparity' that separated our enormous wealth from the poverty of others. To achieve that goal, he advised, 'We should cease to talk about vague and... unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization,” and must 'deal in straight power concepts,' not 'hampered by idealistic slogans' about 'altruism and world-benefaction.'"

    ZCommunications |

    That "position of disparity" Kennan referred to was evidenced by the US "owning" half the world's wealth while possessing less than 5% of the world's population. Millions of Koreans, Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians were murdered, maimed or displaced helping "leaders" like LBJ maintain that level of greed.

    The greatest purveyor of violence on this planet hasn't changed since the time Lyndon gave his tearful resignation.
     
  4. namvet
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    namvet Gold Member

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    leave it to a fuckin' democrat to bring a knife to a gun fight
     
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  5. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Who brought the agent orange?
     
  6. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    agent nedick?
     
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  7. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Gold Member Supporting Member

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  8. Dragon
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    Dragon Senior Member

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    Pretty amazing how many people still believe the lies about Vietnam, e.g. the "domino theory," which held that if Vietnam fell to the Communists, the whole of Southeast Asia would be next, then Australia and New Zealand.

    Vietnam DID fall. Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore -- let alone Australia or New Zealand -- did not. The fall of Vietnam had no affect whatever on any other nearby country, except for Cambodia, where a genocidal regime was overthrown by Vietnamese troops.

    The domino theory having been tested in real life, and its predictions having not come true, we must judge it to be WRONG. But five'll get you ten that the same people here who think Vietnam was a "good idea" still believe in it.
     
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  9. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Let's put an end to some of the unsupported revisionism that we are reading here.

    The domino theory was true in that SVN's fall destablizied Indochina for a long time. Likewise, the domino theory was true in that once the USSR got into Eastern Europe almost fifty years went by before it left.

    It is true that America's incursion into post-colonial Indochina began in 1954 under President Eisenhower with Vice-President Nixon's full and hearty endorsement. Eisenhower, Nixon, Kennedy, and Johnson were all cold warriors. Any talk about dem or pub is simply stupid.
     
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  10. tinydancer
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    tinydancer Diamond Member

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    America did not "invade" South Vietnam.

    President Kennedy started sending advisers to support the South Vietnamese government and army during an invasion from Communist North Vietnam and Viet Cong terror attacks in the South.

    In 1962, Kennedy was only supplying advisers.

    No wonder the world is so screwed up if even basic history is no longer being taught in schools.

    We can differ on the "right" or the "wrong" of Vietnam but let's keep history as truth and not spin.

    1965 combat troops were sent in to protect South Vietnam from invading forces from the North.

    Oh and btw, the freaking French got the US into this mess to begin with. South Vietnam was their colony.

    Key events in the background to the Vietnam war:

    1945 - Viet Minh - a broad front of Vietnamese patriots and nationalists controlled by the Communist Party - seize power. Ho Chi Minh announces independence.

    1946 - French forces attack Viet Minh in Haiphong in November sparking the war of resistance against France.

    1950 - Democratic Republic of Vietnam is recognised by China and USSR.

    1954 - At Geneva Conference Vietnam is split into North and South at the 17th Parallel.

    1956 - South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem begins campaign against political dissidents.

    1957 - Beginning of communist insurgency in the South.

    1959 - Weapons and men from North Vietnam begin infiltrating the South.

    1960 - American aid to Diem increased.

    1962 - Number of US military advisors in South Vietnam rises to 12,000.

    1963 - Viet Cong, the communist guerrillas operating in South Vietnam, defeat units of ARVN, South Vietnamese Army. President Diem overthrown.

    1964 - US destroyer allegedly attacked by North Vietnamese patrol boats. This triggers start of pre-planned American bombing raids on North Vietnam.

    1965 - 200,000 American combat troops arrive in South Vietnam.

    1966 - US troop numbers in Vietnam rise to 400,000, then to 500,000 the following year.

    1968 - Tet Offensive - a combined assault by Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army on US positions - begins. More than 500 civilians die in My Lai massacre.

    1969 - President Nixon draws back US ground troops from Vietnam.

    1970 - Nixon's National Security advisor, Henry Kissinger, and Le Duc Tho, for the Hanoi government, start talks in Paris.

    1973 - Ceasefire agreement in Paris, US troop pull-out completed by March.

    1975 - North Vietnamese troops invade South Vietnam and take control of the whole country after South Vietnamese President Duong Van Minh surrenders.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012

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