Remember how the Arctic Ice Cap is shrinking?

[CrusaderFrank]

The models that don't account for the sun or that they are off a whole order of magnitude in estimating oceanic absorption of CO2 say so

LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Arctic Sea Ice - Methane Release - Planetary Emergency

AMEG Declaration of Emergency (revised Sep 2012)

AMEG declares there now exists an extremely high international security risk* of acute climate disruption followed potentially by runaway global warming. The collapse of Arctic sea ice will change the reflective properties of the Arctic from 90% reflection of the sun’s rays to a 90% absorber of the sun’s energy. A vicious cycle of Arctic warming started between twenty and thirty years ago, when currents from the Atlantic and Pacific, warmed by greenhouse gases, carried their extra heat into the Arctic to initiate an accelerating decline in sea ice and increase in Arctic temperatures.

Extra heat has gone into the shallow seas over the continental shelf, warming it all the way to the seabed, thus melting frozen methane hydrates and causing vast quantities of methane to be emitted to the atmosphere, greatly enhancing global warming.

Rapid warming of the Arctic has already lead to a disruption in the normal weather of the Northern Hemisphere, leading to widespread crop failures and societal disruptions which now threaten the existence of our civilization. This existential threat demands of us that we cooperate on an immediate emergency-scale response in order to cool the Arctic and save the sea ice. There was a dramatic collapse of the sea ice this summer, and without action this collapse will be complete in one to three years (by 2015).

The immediacy of this risk is underlined by the discovery that vast areas of the continental shelf are already in critical condition as a result of the warming of the Arctic Ocean seabed. Increasingly large quantities of methane are being emitted. Moreover, there is the possibility of methane held as hydrates or under thawing permafrost being suddenly released in very large quantities due to a disturbance such as an earthquake. The quantities of methane in the continental shelf are so vast that a release of only one or two percent of this methane could lead to the release of the remaining methane in an unstoppable chain reaction. Global warming would spiral upward beyond the 2 degrees which many scientists consider the safety limit.

 

[westwall]

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Arctic Sea Ice - Methane Release - Planetary Emergency

AMEG Declaration of Emergency (revised Sep 2012)

AMEG declares there now exists an extremely high international security risk* of acute climate disruption followed potentially by runaway global warming. The collapse of Arctic sea ice will change the reflective properties of the Arctic from 90% reflection of the sun’s rays to a 90% absorber of the sun’s energy. A vicious cycle of Arctic warming started between twenty and thirty years ago, when currents from the Atlantic and Pacific, warmed by greenhouse gases, carried their extra heat into the Arctic to initiate an accelerating decline in sea ice and increase in Arctic temperatures.

Extra heat has gone into the shallow seas over the continental shelf, warming it all the way to the seabed, thus melting frozen methane hydrates and causing vast quantities of methane to be emitted to the atmosphere, greatly enhancing global warming.

Rapid warming of the Arctic has already lead to a disruption in the normal weather of the Northern Hemisphere, leading to widespread crop failures and societal disruptions which now threaten the existence of our civilization. This existential threat demands of us that we cooperate on an immediate emergency-scale response in order to cool the Arctic and save the sea ice. There was a dramatic collapse of the sea ice this summer, and without action this collapse will be complete in one to three years (by 2015).

The immediacy of this risk is underlined by the discovery that vast areas of the continental shelf are already in critical condition as a result of the warming of the Arctic Ocean seabed. Increasingly large quantities of methane are being emitted. Moreover, there is the possibility of methane held as hydrates or under thawing permafrost being suddenly released in very large quantities due to a disturbance such as an earthquake. The quantities of methane in the continental shelf are so vast that a release of only one or two percent of this methane could lead to the release of the remaining methane in an unstoppable chain reaction. Global warming would spiral upward beyond the 2 degrees which many scientists consider the safety limit.

Yet another religious group (notice how all the religious whackos are allways warning us about the end of the world?) warning us what has been going on for thousands of years and begging for money.

 

[RollingThunder]

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Arctic Sea Ice - Methane Release - Planetary Emergency

AMEG Declaration of Emergency (revised Sep 2012)

AMEG declares there now exists an extremely high international security risk* of acute climate disruption followed potentially by runaway global warming. The collapse of Arctic sea ice will change the reflective properties of the Arctic from 90% reflection of the sun’s rays to a 90% absorber of the sun’s energy. A vicious cycle of Arctic warming started between twenty and thirty years ago, when currents from the Atlantic and Pacific, warmed by greenhouse gases, carried their extra heat into the Arctic to initiate an accelerating decline in sea ice and increase in Arctic temperatures.

Extra heat has gone into the shallow seas over the continental shelf, warming it all the way to the seabed, thus melting frozen methane hydrates and causing vast quantities of methane to be emitted to the atmosphere, greatly enhancing global warming.

Rapid warming of the Arctic has already lead to a disruption in the normal weather of the Northern Hemisphere, leading to widespread crop failures and societal disruptions which now threaten the existence of our civilization. This existential threat demands of us that we cooperate on an immediate emergency-scale response in order to cool the Arctic and save the sea ice. There was a dramatic collapse of the sea ice this summer, and without action this collapse will be complete in one to three years (by 2015).

The immediacy of this risk is underlined by the discovery that vast areas of the continental shelf are already in critical condition as a result of the warming of the Arctic Ocean seabed. Increasingly large quantities of methane are being emitted. Moreover, there is the possibility of methane held as hydrates or under thawing permafrost being suddenly released in very large quantities due to a disturbance such as an earthquake. The quantities of methane in the continental shelf are so vast that a release of only one or two percent of this methane could lead to the release of the remaining methane in an unstoppable chain reaction. Global warming would spiral upward beyond the 2 degrees which many scientists consider the safety limit.

Yet another religious group (notice how all the religious whackos are allways warning us about the end of the world?) warning us what has been going on for thousands of years and begging for money.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....ahhhh, still spewing your insane drivel, eh walleyedretard.....are you off your meds again.....or just on drugs???

It's really funny how what you call "religious groups" the rest of the world calls 'scientists', but then you're an insane retard so what can we expect.

Here's some other "religious groups" for you to scoff at in your usual halfwitted way.

As Permafrost Melts, Methane-Munching Soil Bacteria Come to Life
Discover Magazine
November 7th, 2011


Study finds permafrost thaw, glacier melt releasing methane
Reuters News Service
May 21, 2012
(excerpts)
(Reuters) - Methane from underground reservoirs is streaming from thawing permafrost and receding glaciers, contributing to the greenhouse gas load in the atmosphere, a study led by scientists at the University of Alaska Fairbanks has found. The study, published online on Sunday in the journal Nature Geoscience, is the first to document leakage of deep geologic methane from warming permafrost and receding glaciers, said its lead author, Katey Walter Anthony. Release of methane into the atmosphere from any source is troubling because methane has far more potent greenhouse powers than carbon dioxide, climate scientists say. Methane has more than 20 times the heat-trapping power of carbon dioxide, University of Alaska Fairbanks researchers said.

Scientists have speculated about such methane releases and modeling has predicted that it would happen as the cryosphere - the earth's layer of ice and frozen ground - softens and melts, Walter Anthony said in a telephone news conference on Monday. "But no one had ever shown that it was occurring or that it was a widespread phenomenon," she said. "This paper really is the first time that we see with field evidence that this type of geologic methane is escaping as the cryosphere retreats." Ultimately, researchers confirmed that underground methane was venting from two types of sources in Alaska - one of them being 50 lakes in the northernmost region, and the other being along the edges of rapidly receding glaciers in southern Alaska. In Greenland, they found methane streaming out of areas where the ice sheet had retreated over the past 150 years, Walter Anthony said.


Methane unleashed from 150,000 'seeps' in Alaska and Greenland could have huge impact on world's climate
The Daily Mail
By Rob Waugh
21 May 2012
(excerpts)
Retreating glaciers and thawing permafrost are unleashing 'seeps' of methane which could have a massive impact on global warming. Using ground-based measurements and aerial surveys, researchers found 150,000 'methane seeps' - mostly along boundaries where glaciers and permafrost are melting. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas - and this effect makes the climate puzzle even more complex, says the report in Nature Geoscience. As more glaciers and permafrost melt, the effect could become even MORE severe. 'Perennially-frozen ground and glaciers of the Arctic trap methane leaking from hydrocarbon reservoirs, restricting the flow to the atmosphere,' say the researchers.

It's already known that methane is being released into the atmosphere - both from the Siberian permafrost, and, as more recently discovered by survey ships, from the sea bed. A Russian research ship recently made a terrifying discovery - huge plumes of methane bubbles rising to the surface from the seabed. 'We found more than 100 fountains, some more than a kilometre across,' said Dr Igor Semiletov, 'These are methane fields on a scale not seen before. The emissions went directly into the atmosphere.' Earlier research conducted by Semiletov's team had concluded that the amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world’s oceans. Now Semiletov thinks that could be an underestimate. The melting of the arctic shelf is melting 'permafrost' under the sea, which is releasing methane stored in the seabed as methane gas. These releases can be larger and more abrupt than any land-based release. The East Siberian Arctic Shelf is a methane-rich area that encompasses more than 2 million square kilometers of seafloor in the Arctic Ocean.

'Earlier we found torch or fountain-like structures like this,' Semiletov told the Independent. 'This is the first time that we've found continuous, powerful and impressive seeping structures, more than 1,000 metres in diameter. It's amazing. Over a relatively small area, we found more than 100, but over a wider area, there should be thousands of them.' Scientists estimate that the methane trapped under the ice shelf could lead to extremely rapid climate change. Current average methane concentrations in the Arctic average about 1.85 parts per million, the highest in 400,000 years. Concentrations above the East Siberian Arctic Shelf are even higher.


Arctic permafrost leaking methane at record levels, figures show
Experts say methane emissions from the Arctic have risen by almost one-third in just five years, and that sharply rising temperatures are to blame
The Guardian
David Adam, environment correspondent
14 January 2010
(excerpts)
Scientists have recorded a massive spike in the amount of a powerful greenhouse gas seeping from Arctic permafrost, in a discovery that highlights the risks of a dangerous climate tipping point. Experts say methane emissions from the Arctic have risen by almost one-third in just five years, and that sharply rising temperatures are to blame. The discovery follows a string of reports from the region in recent years that previously frozen boggy soils are melting and releasing methane in greater quantities. Such Arctic soils currently lock away billions of tonnes of methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, leading some scientists to describe melting permafrost as a ticking time bomb that could overwhelm efforts to tackle climate change. They fear the warming caused by increased methane emissions will itself release yet more methane and lock the region into a destructive cycle that forces temperatures to rise faster than predicted.

Global warming is occuring twice as fast in the Arctic than anywhere else on Earth. Some regions have already warmed by 2.5C, and temperatures there are projected to increase by more than 10C by 2100 if carbon emissions continue to rise at current rates. The change in the Arctic is enough to explain a recent increase in global methane levels in the atmosphere, he said. Global levels have risen steadily since 2007, after a decade or so holding steady. The new study, published in the journal Science, shows that methane emissions from the Arctic increased by 31% from 2003-07. While carbon dioxide gets most of the attention in the global warming debate, methane is pound-for-pound a more potent greenhouse gas, capable of trapping some 20 times more heat than CO2. Although methane is present in much lower quantities in the atmosphere, its potency makes it responsible for about one-fifth of man-made warming.

 

[skookerasbil]

Methane levels???


Yuk.........yuk...........how many people are waking up across America today and sitting at their breakfast table sayiing, "Geee......did you see that report about the teeny weenie bit of methane release in the Arctic Sea? Shit.......I better call my representative today!!!"


Ummm..........about 359 s0n!!!!


You and 358 other mental cases.

 

[RollingThunder]

Methane levels???

'Methane levels? We don got to show you no stinking methane levels'.

LOLOLOL.

And another empty post from kookiepukie, the un-comprehending resident retard.

 

[westwall]

Methane levels???

'Methane levels? We don got to show you no stinking methane levels'.

LOLOLOL.

And another empty post from kookiepukie, the un-comprehending resident retard.

 

[TNHarley]

This is what, the fifth time the ice has melted? It happens folks. Its called mother nature. We just happen to be here, this time around

 

[Qantrill]

I love this thread.

Now would some...any...just one of you chicken littleshits explain to us global warming doubters just why this GD ice melted (see YouTube below), then refroze, then melted again...twice in the last 100,000 years (last time 25,000 years ago) when there were NO AIRPLANES, NO AUTOMOBILES, NO SMOKE BELCHING FACTORIES, NO SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE, NO FARTING DINOSAURS, NO WORLD WARS AND NO PRIEUSes running around on top of the icecap?

OH YEAH...NO OIL COMPANIES.

Your attention to this matter will be the object of much derision. Thank You!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USIAcXfv39k&feature=player_detailpage]The Last Ice Age (120 000 years ago to Modern) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[skookerasbil]

Quantrill FTMFW!!!


Then we have the other genius on this page.....................

 

[RollingThunder]

I love this thread.

Now would some...any...just one of you chicken littleshits explain to us global warming doubters just why this GD ice melted (see YouTube below), then refroze, then melted again...twice in the last 100,000 years (last time 25,000 years ago) when there were NO AIRPLANES, NO AUTOMOBILES, NO SMOKE BELCHING FACTORIES, NO SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE, NO FARTING DINOSAURS, NO WORLD WARS AND NO PRIEUSes running around on top of the icecap?

OH YEAH...NO OIL COMPANIES.

Your attention to this matter will be the object of much derision. Thank You!

The Last Ice Age (120 000 years ago to Modern) - YouTube

If you weren't such an ignorant half-wit, you'd know how to find such information for yourself, Quanto. But hey, always glad to help out the ignorant and confused with some solid facts. Natural factors, mostly orbital cycles, caused the previous cycles of glaciation and inter-glacial warm periods. Un-natural, human caused factors (burning fossil fuels, deforestation) are causing the current abrupt warming trend.

Quaternary glaciation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(excerpts)

Causes

The cause of glaciation may be related to several simultaneously occurring factors, such as astronomical cycles, atmospheric composition, plate tectonics, and ocean currents.[4]

Astronomical cycles

The role of Earth's orbital changes in controlling climate was first advanced by James Croll in the late 19th century.[5] Later, Milutin Milanković, a Serbian geophysicist, elaborated on the theory and calculated these irregularities in Earth's orbit could cause the climatic cycles known as Milankovitch cycles.[6] They are the result of the additive behavior of several types of cyclical changes in Earth's orbital properties. Changes in the orbital eccentricity of Earth occur on a cycle of about 100,000 years.[7] The inclination, or tilt, of Earth's axis varies periodically between 22° and 24.5°.[7] (The tilt of Earth's axis is responsible for the seasons; the greater the tilt, the greater the contrast between summer and winter temperatures.) Changes in the tilt occur in a cycle 41,000 years long.[7] Precession of the equinoxes, or wobbles on Earth's spin axis, complete every 21,700 years. According to the Milankovitch theory, these factors cause a periodic cooling of Earth, with the coldest part in the cycle occurring about every 40,000 years. The main effect of the Milankovitch cycles is to change the contrast between the seasons, not the amount of solar heat Earth receives. These cycles within cycles predict that during maximum glacial advances, winter and summer temperatures are lower. The result is less ice melting than accumulating, and glaciers build up. Milankovitch worked out the ideas of climatic cycles in the 1920s and 1930s, but it was not until the 1970s that sufficiently long and detailed chronology of the Quaternary temperature changes was worked out to test the theory adequately.[8] Studies of deep-sea cores, and the fossils contained in them indicate that the fluctuation of climate during the last few hundred thousand years is remarkably close to that predicted by Milankovitch.

A problem with the theory is that the astronomical cycles have been in existence for billions of years, but glaciation is a rare occurrence. Actually, astronomical cycles perfectly explain glacial and interglacial periods, and their transitions, inside an ice age. Other factors such as the position of continents and the effects this has on the earth's oceanic currents, or long term fluctuations inside the core of the sun must also be involved that caused Earth's temperature to drop below a critical threshold and thus initiate the ice age in the first place. Once that occurs, Milankovitch cycles will act to force the planet in and out of glacial periods. One theory holds that decreases in atmospheric CO2, an important greenhouse gas, started the long-term cooling trend that eventually led to glaciation. Recent studies of the CO2 content of gas bubbles preserved in the Greenland ice cores lend support to this idea. CO2 levels also play an important role in the transitions between interglacials and glacials. High CO2 contents correspond to warm interglacial periods, and low CO2 to glacial periods. However, studies indicate that CO2 may not be the primary cause of the interglacial-glacial transitions, but instead acts as a feedback.[10]

 

[skookerasbil]

I love this thread.

Now would some...any...just one of you chicken littleshits explain to us global warming doubters just why this GD ice melted (see YouTube below), then refroze, then melted again...twice in the last 100,000 years (last time 25,000 years ago) when there were NO AIRPLANES, NO AUTOMOBILES, NO SMOKE BELCHING FACTORIES, NO SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE, NO FARTING DINOSAURS, NO WORLD WARS AND NO PRIEUSes running around on top of the icecap?

OH YEAH...NO OIL COMPANIES.

Your attention to this matter will be the object of much derision. Thank You!

The Last Ice Age (120 000 years ago to Modern) - YouTube

If you weren't such an ignorant half-wit, you'd know how to find such information for yourself, Quanto. But hey, always glad to help out the ignorant and confused with some solid facts. Natural factors, mostly orbital cycles, caused the previous cycles of glaciation and inter-glacial warm periods. Un-natural, human caused factors (burning fossil fuels, deforestation) are causing the current abrupt warming trend.

Opinions of irrelevant assholes in the nether-regions of the internet galaxy are gay. Who is really ingnorant and confused here?

I could go out this morning, strip down naked and walk down the middle of Main Street shaking a bannana at people and say, "Were into an abrupt warming trend.....wake the fuck up!!!". Only mental cases like Rolling Thunder think that a host of people are going to line up, grab a bananna and march in lock step!!

The mental cases think people are sitting home all angst about this shit............but guess what........nobody gives a flying fuck. Its beyond being off the reservation.............its as k00k fringe as k00k fringe gets. Not a single k00k on here can come up with one single link showing us their shit is having ANY impact on the public consciousness.


not one s0ns!!!

Meanwhile...............in the real world..................


Coal makes a comeback in Europe

While regulation limits coal power in the US, Hunt writes that the energy source is on the rise in Europe.
By Gary Hunt / September 26, 2012


A funny thing is happening on the way to the clean energy future. While the US government wages a regulatory war on coal fired generation, in Europe, the land of the oh so politically correct the drive for greenhouse gas emissions reduction is meeting a new competitor—reality!

Coal makes a comeback in Europe - CSMonitor.com

 

[flacaltenn]

In other words... Perfectly good explanation that glaciation and the Ices Ages were a NATURAL event with the CO2 levels being a SECONDARY effect.. A combination of Earth orbital dynamics and fundamental changes in the Sun's radiation..

Good Job princess.. But of course NOW --- that evil CO2 has learned to become a PRIMARY cause of warming..

Now lets' do AMO, PDO and SOI --- All of which interact to force approx 60 year temperature cycles on the earth's surface temp..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In other words... Perfectly good explanation that glaciation and the Ices Ages were a NATURAL event with the CO2 levels being a SECONDARY effect.. A combination of Earth orbital dynamics and fundamental changes in the Sun's radiation..

Good Job princess.. But of course NOW --- that evil CO2 has learned to become a PRIMARY cause of warming..

Now lets' do AMO, PDO and SOI --- All of which interact to force approx 60 year temperature cycles on the earth's surface temp..

Warmers are a Cult. I hope they throw themselves into the ocean

 

[RollingThunder]

In other words... Perfectly good explanation that glaciation and the Ices Ages were a NATURAL event with the CO2 levels being a SECONDARY effect.. A combination of Earth orbital dynamics and fundamental changes in the Sun's radiation..
Good Job.. But of course NOW --- that evil CO2 has learned to become a PRIMARY cause of warming..

It was a good explanation. Too bad you're too retarded to understand it very well. "CO2 levels" are not so much a "SECONDARY" effect as they are a primary cause of the subsequent warming that is initially triggered by changes in orbital dynamics.

Past extreme warming events linked to massive carbon release from thawing permafrost
Nature 484, 87–91 (05 April 2012) doi:10.1038/nature10929
Published online 04 April 2012
Robert M. DeConto, Simone Galeotti, Mark Pagani, David Tracy, Kevin Schaefer, Tingjun Zhang, David Pollard & David J. Beerling
(abstract)

Between about 55.5 and 52 million years ago, Earth experienced a series of sudden and extreme global warming events (hyperthermals) superimposed on a long-term warming trend1. The first and largest of these events, the Palaeocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), is characterized by a massive input of carbon, ocean acidification2 and an increase in global temperature of about 5 °C within a few thousand years3. Although various explanations for the PETM have been proposed4, 5, 6, a satisfactory model that accounts for the source, magnitude and timing of carbon release at the PETM and successive hyperthermals remains elusive. Here we use a new astronomically calibrated cyclostratigraphic record from central Italy7 to show that the Early Eocene hyperthermals occurred during orbits with a combination of high eccentricity and high obliquity. Corresponding climate–ecosystem–soil simulations accounting for rising concentrations of background greenhouse gases8 and orbital forcing show that the magnitude and timing of the PETM and subsequent hyperthermals can be explained by the orbitally triggered decomposition of soil organic carbon in circum-Arctic and Antarctic terrestrial permafrost. This massive carbon reservoir had the potential to repeatedly release thousands of petagrams (1015 grams) of carbon to the atmosphere–ocean system, once a long-term warming threshold had been reached just before the PETM. Replenishment of permafrost soil carbon stocks following peak warming probably contributed to the rapid recovery from each event9, while providing a sensitive carbon reservoir for the next hyperthermal10. As background temperatures continued to rise following the PETM, the areal extent of permafrost steadily declined, resulting in an incrementally smaller available carbon pool and smaller hyperthermals at each successive orbital forcing maximum. A mechanism linking Earth’s orbital properties with release of soil carbon from permafrost provides a unifying model accounting for the salient features of the hyperthermals.


Study suggests rising CO2 in the past caused global warming
A paper in Nature shows how increased CO2 in the atmosphere led to warming – rather than the other way round


Research breakthrough: CO2 rises caused warming that ended last ice age
By Tierney Smith
4 April 2012
(excerpts)
Compelling new evidence suggests that rising CO2 caused much of the global warming responsible for ending the last ice age. The study, published in Nature, confirms what scientists have believed for sometime, and further supports the view that current rises in human-driven CO2 will lead to more global warming. “CO2 was a big part of bringing the world out of the last Ice Age and it took about 10,000 years to do it,” said Jeremy Shakun from Harvard University and lead-author of the report. “Now CO2 levels are rising again, but this time an equivalent increase of CO2 has occurred in only about 200 years, and there are clear signs that the planet is already beginning to respond. While many of the details of future climate change remain to be figured out, our study bolsters the consensus view that rising CO2 will lead to more global warming.”

While previous studies only compared carbon dioxide levels to local temperatures in Antarctica, the current study aimed to reconstruct global average temperature changes, using 80 core samples from around the world. Looking only at local temperatures in Antarctica, warming appears to precede rising CO2, an argument often adopted by sceptics to disprove carbon dioxide’s role in global warming. Shakun however, says this is leaving a huge gap in the research. Putting all these records together into a reconstruction of global temperature shows "a beautiful correlation with rising CO2 at the end of the Ice Age,” said Shakun. “Even more interesting, while CO2 trails Antarctica warming, it actually precedes global temperature change, which is what you would expect if CO2 is causing warming.”



Global warming preceded by increasing carbon dioxide concentrations during the last deglaciation
Nature 484, 49–54 (05 April 2012) doi:10.1038/nature10915
Jeremy D. Shakun, Peter U. Clark, Feng He, Shaun A. Marcott, Alan C. Mix, Zhengyu Liu, Bette Otto-Bliesner, Andreas Schmittner & Edouard Bard
Published online 04 April 2012
(Abstract)

The covariation of carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration and temperature in Antarctic ice-core records suggests a close link between CO2 and climate during the Pleistocene ice ages. The role and relative importance of CO2 in producing these climate changes remains unclear, however, in part because the ice-core deuterium record reflects local rather than global temperature. Here we construct a record of global surface temperature from 80 proxy records and show that temperature is correlated with and generally lags CO2 during the last (that is, the most recent) deglaciation. Differences between the respective temperature changes of the Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere parallel variations in the strength of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation recorded in marine sediments. These observations, together with transient global climate model simulations, support the conclusion that an antiphased hemispheric temperature response to ocean circulation changes superimposed on globally in-phase warming driven by increasing CO2 concentrations is an explanation for much of the temperature change at the end of the most recent ice age.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

CO2 is the 98 pound weakling, the Sun kicks sands its face and walks off with the ice caps

 

[RollingThunder]

CO2 is the 98 pound weakling, the Sun kicks sands its face and walks off with the ice caps

Still spewing mindless nonsense, eh CrazyFruitcake? It's really too bad your head managed to get so irremovably wedged up your asshole like that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Just a unscientific observation, did it ever occur to our pro AGW advocates that if the ice does not melt or retreat some of the time, and if it otherwise continues to get thicker and more expansive all of the time, that we would eventually all be up to our hoo has in ice over both the northern and southern hemispheres? We haven't been tracking arctic ice for all that long because we have only had the capability to do so for 34 years. Thirty four years is but a teensy tick in the history of the arctic ice, so we honestly don't know how many times the arctic ice has significantly retreated and advanced over open water in the billions of years it has existed.

Certainly 34 years is not sufficient to merit massive mandatory social changes.

 

[Qantrill]

I'm pretty sure RollingThunder missed the lightening that preceded the thunder and took a direct bolt right between his eyes. Or maybe up his ass.

 

[RollingThunder]

Just a unscientific observation, did it ever occur to our pro AGW advocates that if the ice does not melt or retreat some of the time, and if it otherwise continues to get thicker and more expansive all of the time, that we would eventually all be up to our hoo has in ice over both the northern and southern hemispheres?

As an "unscientific" observer, operating in complete ignorance of all of the scientific research that has been done on this matter, you should just assume right off the bat that everything that "occurs" to your uninformed little mind (or that is spooned into it by the fossil fuel industry propagandists) has already been studied and analyzed by the highly educated and experienced scientists who have studied this subject full time for decades.

Over the last two and a half millions years, due to natural factors, polar ice has repeatedly (about 7 times) expanded enormously to cover most of North America during periods that are called "glaciations", and it has repeatedly shrunk back to something like its present extent during periods that are called "inter-glacials". The Earth is currently in one of those inter-glacial periods that has now lasted for about the last ten thousand years. The natural cycle of things caused by orbital dynamics would see the Earth in a gradually cooling phase now, leading up to another period of intense glaciation tens of thousands of years from now. What has happened instead is that mankind's activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation, have reversed the natural trend and substituted an un-natural abrupt warming trend that is pushing the Earth's climate systems towards temperature extremes not seen in millions of years.

We haven't been tracking arctic ice for all that long because we have only had the capability to do so for 34 years.

Your knowledge of both this issue and science in general seems miniscule and very incomplete.

Thirty four years is but a teensy tick in the history of the arctic ice, so we honestly don't know how many times the arctic ice has significantly retreated and advanced over open water in the billions of years it has existed.

You base your conclusions on your own ignorance, not reality. We don't need to have billions of years of data to understand what is happening. Scientists actually have hundreds of thousands of years of good proxie data on past climate conditions that fits together in a pretty coherent picture of the forces and factors at play in past climate changes. The experts are not as ignorant about this as your own ignorance projects them to be. Scientists have analyzed the various things involved in all of these past climate shifts and those things are not happening now. The only thing consistent with the laws of physics that can explain the current abrupt warming is the rapid 40% (and still rising fast) increase in atmospheric CO2 levels that human activities has created.

Reconstructed changes in Arctic sea ice over the past 1,450 years
NATURE
Published: 23 November 2011
Abstract (excerpts)
Arctic sea ice extent is now more than two million square kilometres less than it was in the late twentieth century, with important consequences for the climate, the ocean and traditional lifestyles in the Arctic(1, 2). Although observations show a more or less continuous decline for the past four or five decades(3, 4), there are few long-term records with which to assess natural sea ice variability. Until now, the question of whether or not current trends are potentially anomalous(5) has therefore remained unanswerable. Here we use a network of high-resolution terrestrial proxies from the circum-Arctic region to reconstruct past extents of summer sea ice, and show that—although extensive uncertainties remain, especially before the sixteenth century—both the duration and magnitude of the current decline in sea ice seem to be unprecedented for the past 1,450 years. These results reinforce the assertion that sea ice is an active component of Arctic climate variability and that the recent decrease in summer Arctic sea ice is consistent with anthropogenically forced warming.

Certainly 34 years is not sufficient to merit massive mandatory social changes.

And here you reveal that because you are ignorant of (and probably uninterested in) the actual scientific facts that indicate that our world is facing a severe crisis, you really base your objections to the scientific conclusions about the Arctic ice loss on your political fears, whipped up by some clever propaganda, that you might be faced with some (very necessary) changes to our energy infrastructure and possibly your current way of doing things. Or in other words, you've been fooled into being a stooge for the continued profits of the fossil fuel industry.

Just a suggestion, little dudette - try learning more about this subject from good sources of accurate scientific information instead of the rightwingnut media echo chamber and astro-turfed blogs before you make a fool of yourself on here again.