Religious People...

[PackMule]

SHOULD INSiST ON TAKING RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!! "No Prayers before meetings."

 

[Gurdari]

SHOULD INSEST ON TAKING RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!! "No Prayers before meetings."

No insest please.

Likely religious people would object to hearing prayers to Gods other than their own, or being forced to sit and acknowledge another interpretation of faith (I am making a huge assumption here - but I would be surprised if Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, etc. could sit and have a government mandated prayer to a God they believe is false).

Atheists just tend to roll their eyes, but really would have the same right to NOT hear those things too.

 

[PackMule]

THANKS --- I Was in a hurry... And I Installed Spell Check!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

No insest please.

Likely religious people would object to hearing prayers to Gods other than their own, or being forced to sit and acknowledge another interpretation of faith (I am making a huge assumption here - but I would be surprised if Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, etc. could sit and have a government mandated prayer to a God they believe is false).

Atheists just tend to roll their eyes, but really would have the same right to NOT hear those things too.

Yeah Atheists do a lot of that... and what right is this? A right to 'not hear things?'

Can you explain the basis of this right?

(The correct answer is: "No, I can't; because there is no such right as there is no valid moral basis on which to rest such a 'right.'")

 

[Shattered]

No insest please.

Likely religious people would object to hearing prayers to Gods other than their own, or being forced to sit and acknowledge another interpretation of faith (I am making a huge assumption here - but I would be surprised if Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, etc. could sit and have a government mandated prayer to a God they believe is false).

Atheists just tend to roll their eyes, but really would have the same right to NOT hear those things too.

We do have the right to not hear those things. We enforce that right by simply walking away from the situation if we so wish.

Which is how I think everyone else should enforce their rights when it comes to their personal religion. Not dumping it over someones head, and then screaming "hate!" when it doesn't go over as you think it should.

 

[Care4all]

SHOULD INSiST ON TAKING RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!! "No Prayers before meetings."

Will that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and goose bumpy if a prayer was not said before each congressional session?

I was just wondering what you would get out of ''no prayers before meetings''?



Care

 

[sealybobo]

We do have the right to not hear those things. We enforce that right by simply walking away from the situation if we so wish.

Which is how I think everyone else should enforce their rights when it comes to their personal religion. Not dumping it over someones head, and then screaming "hate!" when it doesn't go over as you think it should.

I was born a christian but sort of doubt all organized religion. I tend to believe no one knows what god is and anyone who thinks they know is believing in a fairytale.

But that's ok, because those people are the people that do good.

Where are the athiest orphanages or soup kitchens and missionaries.

So I guess I just don't like the idea if you don't believe in jesus then you go to hell. That's the one thing I can't accept. That's so man made. No way I buy that. The bible is just a man made story, not facts. But it is a good book.

But still, god bless christians for doing good work. Who does more?

Also, good christians should be anti war for profit.

 

[Shattered]

I was born a christian but sort of doubt all organized religion. I tend to believe no one knows what god is and anyone who thinks they know is believing in a fairytale.

But that's ok, because those people are the people that do good.

Where are the athiest orphanages or soup kitchens and missionaries.

So I guess I just don't like the idea if you don't believe in jesus then you go to hell. That's the one thing I can't accept. That's so man made. No way I buy that. The bible is just a man made story, not facts. But it is a good book.

But still, god bless christians for doing good work. Who does more?

Also, good christians should be anti war for profit.

How can you not like the idea of something if you don't believe it exists? My take on death? Worm food, if you don't have a sturdy enough coffin.

 

[sealybobo]

How can you not like the idea of something if you don't believe it exists? My take on death? Worm food, if you don't have a sturdy enough coffin.

It's a way to scare people into saying you believe. I don't like it because i've heard the story and still have doubts. Maybe i'm going to hell for it. Maybe i'm wrong. See? It's working. Maybe I should just buy the whole story as literal and fact because the man says its so. I know even jews admit to jesus and the story, but look today how thews work with us against the muslims. It even made liebermann change alliegance.

Anyways, I'm only human. Who am I to judge or doubt what billions of people believe?

But then I realize there are just as many muslims as there are christians and they are just as sure as christians.

I sort of still consider myself a christian. Jesus sounded like the real thing. If the stories are true. And my god doesn't send people to hell for having doubt, so long as they get the real messages in the bible. I suspect most christians don't agree 100 percent on everything in the bible, so i'm a frindge christian. I go to church but I have my own take on it.

 

[del]

How can you not like the idea of something if you don't believe it exists? My take on death? Worm food, if you don't have a sturdy enough coffin.

buzzards gotta eat too.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was born a christian but sort of doubt all organized religion. I tend to believe no one knows what god is and anyone who thinks they know is believing in a fairytale.

But that's ok, because those people are the people that do good.

Where are the athiest orphanages or soup kitchens and missionaries.

So I guess I just don't like the idea if you don't believe in jesus then you go to hell. That's the one thing I can't accept. That's so man made. No way I buy that. The bible is just a man made story, not facts. But it is a good book.

But still, god bless christians for doing good work. Who does more?

Also, good christians should be anti war for profit.

No one goes to hell at all. Not the fire and brimstone version anyway. And the only way to be condemned permanently is to CHOSE to be evil. Those that did not do evil but did not learn the truth will be given a second chance after Judgement day.

 

[sparky]

doesn't the whole ex-middle class pray every 4 years here....?

 

[editec]

doesn't the whole ex-middle class pray every 4 years here....?

There are no atheists in the voting booth, ya' mean?

Given that every generation we sacrifice some our children in uniform for this nation's continued superpower status, I'd say the middle pretty serious about making this nation work.

 

[chopcrazy]

No one goes to hell at all. Not the fire and brimstone version anyway. And the only way to be condemned permanently is to CHOSE to be evil. Those that did not do evil but did not learn the truth will be given a second chance after Judgement day.

My understanding is you get conedemned permanently if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.


Are people inherently good or inherently evil?

 

[Care4all]

My understanding is you get conedemned permanently if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.


Are people inherently good or inherently evil?

some fundalmentalists believe such, but this is not what the Bible states when READ IN FULL...imo most Christian doctrines allow to some degree for a nonbeliever's judgement, to be left up to God/Christ... it says those who live under the Law will be judged by the Law and those under Christ will be judged by this...

Also, Christ does state that no one goes to the Father, but thru Him...

But Christ also states that everyone on Earth will be judged by Him on Judgement Day...that's everyone, not just christian or Jews...if they were automatically condemned to darkness, Jesus wouldn't need to Judge them imo...

and at that time those who did not take Jesus up while here on Earth, will be judged by Him...more than likely by the Law is what I think or basically by their good verses their evil and He, as God, can do anything He deems just.

The parable of the Sheep and the Goats gives an example of this Judgement by Christ, imo.

And lastly, since Christ judges EVERYONE, both believers and non believers....it still coincides with the passage saying, "No one goes to the Father, but thru me" that Christ has said...these non-believers will get their chance at their judgement, face to face with Christ, and Christ will make the decision on their Final judgement and destination...soooo, they went THRU HIM, either to the Father, or not.

Of course, i am willing to debate this and am leaving myself opened to be wrong!!!!


I think people were inherently good until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...at that point our nature became opened to being both, good or evil....again, imo.

care

 

[chopcrazy]

some fundalmentalists believe such, but this is not what the Bible states when READ IN FULL...imo most Christian doctrines allow to some degree for a nonbeliever's judgement, to be left up to God/Christ... it says those who live under the Law will be judged by the Law and those under Christ will be judged by this...

Also, Christ does state that no one goes to the Father, but thru Him...

But Christ also states that everyone on Earth will be judged by Him on Judgement Day...that's everyone, not just christian or Jews...if they were automatically condemned to darkness, Jesus wouldn't need to Judge them imo...

and at that time those who did not take Jesus up while here on Earth, will be judged by Him...more than likely by the Law is what I think or basically by their good verses their evil and He, as God, can do anything He deems just.

The parable of the Sheep and the Goats gives an example of this Judgement by Christ, imo.

And lastly, since Christ judges EVERYONE, both believers and non believers....it still coincides with the passage saying, "No one goes to the Father, but thru me" that Christ has said...these non-believers will get their chance at their judgement, face to face with Christ, and Christ will make the decision on their Final judgement and destination...soooo, they went THRU HIM, either to the Father, or not.

Of course, i am willing to debate this and am leaving myself opened to be wrong!!!!


I think people were inherently good until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...at that point our nature became opened to being both, good or evil....again, imo.

care

I agree with most of what you mention. With respect to my point about condemned permanently, I belive it occurs at Judgement. Everyone has the opportunity to accept Christ up until Judgement.

 

[Gurdari]

We do have the right to not hear those things. We enforce that right by simply walking away from the situation if we so wish.

Which is how I think everyone else should enforce their rights when it comes to their personal religion. Not dumping it over someones head, and then screaming "hate!" when it doesn't go over as you think it should.

Well, in a governmental meeting for example, we couldn't just walk away. People are stuck there observing opening ceremonies or whatever... so should I be aloowed to lead a five minute anti-religion speech? While I have a captive audience?

Likely not, nor would I - as pushing my belief in your face is rude.

 

[Gurdari]

Yeah Atheists do a lot of that... and what right is this? A right to 'not hear things?'

Can you explain the basis of this right?

(The correct answer is: "No, I can't; because there is no such right as there is no valid moral basis on which to rest such a 'right.'")

Ha! The same right anyone else would have - no more, no less. So, if you have to sit there and listen to my religious thoughts, then we would be on equal footing. If you did not wish your government to start meetings by decalring things that may offend your religious sensibilities, then you would surely not wish others to feel that way, no?

 

[Care4all]

Ha! The same right anyone else would have - no more, no less. So, if you have to sit there and listen to my religious thoughts, then we would be on equal footing. If you did not wish your government to start meetings by decalring things that may offend your religious sensibilities, then you would surely not wish others to feel that way, no?

And where do you get this NEW "RIGHT" from????

The Creators of the Constitution who later moved on to Congress and even Presidency... scheduled Prayer by the Chaplain of the Senate and the Chaplain of the House prior to every sessions from the very BEGINNING.

We even pay the Salary of those Chaplains and every day before Congress, this Chaplain or a guest Rabbi or a guest Muslim or a guest Priest etc, says the opening prayer of Congress.

don't you think the very founders of the constitution would have objected vehemently against this taking place if it were against the First Amendment and what they meant by it?

Care

 

[Gurdari]

And where do you get this NEW "RIGHT" from????

Again, I don't think anyone should have new, special, super awesome or any other type of specific rights. Just people all haveing the SAME rights. Atheist, agnostic, theistic, deistic, whatever. I hope that makes sense.

The Creators of the Constitution who later moved on to Congress and even Presidency... scheduled Prayer by the Chaplain of the Senate and the Chaplain of the House prior to every sessions from the very BEGINNING.

We even pay the Salary of those Chaplains and every day before Congress, this Chaplain or a guest Rabbi or a guest Muslim or a guest Priest etc, says the opening prayer of Congress.

don't you think the very founders of the constitution would have objected vehemently against this taking place if it were against the First Amendment and what they meant by it?

Care

Uh... sure? Not sure what the 1st amendment has to do with this... I'm not talking about one group having more or less power - just affording non-religious people the same quality of respect that a religious person would receive. Can we agree that such a situation is ideal? Equality of rights?

Regardless, my point was that religious people would LIKELY object to having their government ceremony opened up using articles of a different faith (like every bow their heads towards meca, or chant the taoist chant, etc.). If religious people would be happy and tolerant to have their meetings opened up via other faiths, then that is super duper. Athiests in that situation would only have the SAME rights (or non-rights) to object that you would. Or Jesus would.


So, once again: No special rights for Atheists. Just the same rights anyone might have, shared by all.